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Different scales! One has third-world law enforcement issues, the other has first-world law enforcement issues. Exactly what is the difference? Is it what you

Different scales! One has third-world law enforcement issues, the other has first-world law enforcement issues. Exactly what is the difference? Is it what you refer to below? At any rate, the US doesn't put out so many laws (at least at the federal level) that it knows it can't enforce because enforcement would destroy the economy, while China has no problem doing that. Funny, but the rhetoric from the political right in the US would have one believe this is happening. (There is undoubtedly some self interested bias at work there.) I did have some experience with export regulations when ordering a piece of industrial equipment from Guangdong province in China. (A knock off of a J-Cut laser cutter.) The Chinese company was surprisingly diligent in their technical support. However, they cheerfully agreed summarily then ignored my requests for the proper paperwork. The expediter I worked with on the US end explained that the US regulations that came up in response to 9-11 were basically unenforceable, so everyone exporting from China just ignored them. Heck, China has an entire "constitution" that guarantees many rights unequivocally (freedom of speech, assembly, all the good stuff), which is then unilaterally ignored. Say what you want about the US, but the supreme court isn't that horrible or ineffective (yet). The supreme court might work, but the US isn't perfect either. The US doesn't have "innocent until proven guity" enshrined directly in the constitution, though it's taken as being implied by other parts of the law. However, local governments do abrogate this principle on statistical grounds. Yep. It is never black and white, just a very dark gray vs. a much lighter shade of gray. I suspect the 5 downvotes were from people with rather black and white viewpoints.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
> The supreme court might work, but the US isn't perfect either. Of course the US isn't perfect! No one is. I don't see how that is relevant to "doing business in China" and "how business works in China". This isn't a face/pissing contest.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  This isn't a face/pissing contest. Did I say that it was, or did you imagine it to be? I think it's instructive for people in the US to realize that our system has the same kind of flaws, and that the difference is just one of degree. In fact, I think it's dangerous for people in the US to be ignorant of these facts.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Degrees matter since none of these things are binary. Basically, your point is that the US (and every other country out there) should realize that it has badness, even if it isn't as bad as China. It seems obvious to me, I don't see how it is relevant.
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      Basically, your point is that the US (and every other country out there) should realize that it has badness, even if it isn't as bad as China. It seems obvious to me, I don't see how it is relevant. It seems to me that in many such discussions, some participants regard the US as something like a workable approximation of perfect. The sentences are often written this way: it suffices to say that China does this or that. That's like talking about an outbreak of E.Coli and not understanding that just about any creature with a colon contains a bunch of E.Coli. The significant idea is that the bacteria gets to places it shouldn't. In this analogy, it's not conveying the complete picture just to say there are bacteria. Since I pressed people in these threads, people specified exactly in what contexts with regards to business and IP that China's approach to law made a difference. Just to say that China selectively enforces laws 1) conveys the false picture that the US doesn't do this and 2) doesn't specify the exact problems and can be reduced to, "China primitive and bad." I probably wouldn't disagree with anything you had to say on this matter, but I want substantive discussion and think it often stops short. The fact that I could point such facts out, and people would react so strongly to them because of the possibility they represent "the other side" is another interesting data point.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        No, I/we have plenty of beefs with the US. There is plenty to gripe about there. But doing business is not one of them. I was talking about my own observations working in China, how we couldn't do the same things that the local companies could. It is not just "China primitive bad", it is "things work differently in China, don't you know?" as any Chinese would tell you on your first day of work! Its like we were having a conversation about a bad pollution day in Beijing, say 600 2.5 PPM, and you pointed out that LA was currently at 90, so the Americans living in Beijing had no right to complain about this.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

> The supreme court might work, but the US isn't perfect either. Of course the US isn't perfect! No one is. I don't see how that is relevant to "doing business in China" and "how business works in China". This isn't a face/pissing contest.

stcredzero 10y ago
This isn't a face/pissing contest. Did I say that it was, or did you imagine it to be? I think it's instructive for people in the US to realize that our system has the same kind of flaws, and that the difference is just one of degree. In fact, I think it's dangerous for people in the US to be ignorant of these facts.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Degrees matter since none of these things are binary. Basically, your point is that the US (and every other country out there) should realize that it has badness, even if it isn't as bad as China. It seems obvious to me, I don't see how it is relevant.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    Basically, your point is that the US (and every other country out there) should realize that it has badness, even if it isn't as bad as China. It seems obvious to me, I don't see how it is relevant. It seems to me that in many such discussions, some participants regard the US as something like a workable approximation of perfect. The sentences are often written this way: it suffices to say that China does this or that. That's like talking about an outbreak of E.Coli and not understanding that just about any creature with a colon contains a bunch of E.Coli. The significant idea is that the bacteria gets to places it shouldn't. In this analogy, it's not conveying the complete picture just to say there are bacteria. Since I pressed people in these threads, people specified exactly in what contexts with regards to business and IP that China's approach to law made a difference. Just to say that China selectively enforces laws 1) conveys the false picture that the US doesn't do this and 2) doesn't specify the exact problems and can be reduced to, "China primitive and bad." I probably wouldn't disagree with anything you had to say on this matter, but I want substantive discussion and think it often stops short. The fact that I could point such facts out, and people would react so strongly to them because of the possibility they represent "the other side" is another interesting data point.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      No, I/we have plenty of beefs with the US. There is plenty to gripe about there. But doing business is not one of them. I was talking about my own observations working in China, how we couldn't do the same things that the local companies could. It is not just "China primitive bad", it is "things work differently in China, don't you know?" as any Chinese would tell you on your first day of work! Its like we were having a conversation about a bad pollution day in Beijing, say 600 2.5 PPM, and you pointed out that LA was currently at 90, so the Americans living in Beijing had no right to complain about this.