8 ms·

It would just adjust the criteria from things Facebook thinks they'd want to see to things that powerful people think would tilt the users' political views in t

by makomk 10y ago

It would just adjust the criteria from things Facebook thinks they'd want to see to things that powerful people think would tilt the users' political views in the right direction. That's a major change, and one that - by design - transfers a huge amount of power and control from individual Facebook users to the centralized approvers of permitted content.

snowwrestler 10y ago
Thinking about politics first is a backward way to look at the world. We need to know the truth about facts. Only then can we make useful political decisions about those facts.
- wu-ikkyu 10y ago
  "The truth about facts" is extremely ambiguous. However, I'm sure the new Minitrue department at Facebook will solve this problem.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics? Facebook fact checking materials before displaying them is fundamentally political, if only because the decision of filtering strategy is a political choice.
  - snowwrestler 10y ago
    A news story that the Pope endorsed Trump is fiction and should be labeled as such. That has political implications because everything does. But evaluating content based on those implications, rather than on the actual facts, is a categorical error. We label fiction and nonfiction in libraries, book stores, movies, magazines, etc--basically every other medium for accessing content. Why not Facebook too?
    - ikeyany 10y ago
      How do you define fiction? "The Pope endorses Trump" would be labeled as fiction. But what about "The Pope endorses [some of] Trump's views"? Or "The Pope is a bigger fan of Trump than you think"?
      - jamespo 10y ago
        How about start with the most blatant examples... like spam detection
      - snowwrestler 10y ago
        Facebook is not even addressing the most blatant, obvious fake news. In fact, they do the opposite: they promote it to millions of people. Or more accurately, they permit their software to do so. And they claim they have no responsibility, even though they built the entire thing.
        orionblastar 10y ago
        Facebook does not want to lose revenue from advertisers that submit fake news articles. I saw the BS News extension it checks each link for citing known fake news sites in their article. It is not practical as I keep seeing new fake news sites popping up from nowhere. Just register a domain, install Wordpress, write some articles and then pay for advertising on Facebook. Fake news sites got Trump elected by saying false things like the Pope supports him. It is serious when people only use Facebook as their only news site and read and believe without checking the facts first. If I were to make a fake news site detector I'd have it search Snopes and Politifact and others to see if it has been already reported as false. Basically the way it ends up is a new way to censor the news using AI. Suppose instead of a black list of sites they use a white list of trusted sites? Then block any new sites until they can verify them as trusted?
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      You didnt answer my question at all: how does Facebook, prior to the political decision of how to determine what facts are, know that the Pope endorsing Trump is fiction?
  - michaelt 10y ago
    How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics? Perhaps they could determine what facts are by seeing if they're true or not? For example, if an article states that Colorado pot shops accept food stamps [1] or that Dearborn in Michigan follows Sharia law [2] perhaps Facebook could determine those articles are satirical because they aren't true? [1] http://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/14/fake-report-about-colorado-pot-shops-food-stamps-creates-havoc/ http://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/14/fake-report-about-color... [2] http://nationalreport.net/city-michigan-first-fully-implement-sharia-law/ http://nationalreport.net/city-michigan-first-fully-implemen...
    - serge2k 10y ago
      ha, it's quite obvious if you check the front page http://nationalreport.net/ http://nationalreport.net/ They may need to make things more obvious.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      How does Facebook determine if something is true prior to the political choice of the method they'll use to determine truth? You just moved words around, but my original question is still there: how do you without any political decisions determine what is true? There is no single method for determining truth, thus which for a collective to use is fundamentally a political choice. You and a sibling comment seem to be forgetting that we need to decide how we're going to determine truth before we go about doing it. In fact, you assume Facebook knows a fact (that potshops dont accept foodstamps), but how does Facebook know that is a fact or not?
  - serge2k 10y ago
    > How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics Facts are facts. The pope did not endorse Donald Trump. That is a fact.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      How does Facebook, without making a choice about what method to use, determine that the pope didn't endorse Donald Trump? If Facebook makes a choice of method, it's fundamentally political, as all group choices are. Thus, Facebook can't escape the political nature of that task: epistemology requires a philosophical position, and a philosophocal position being adopted is a choice (for an organization), and all group decisions are inherently political.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
Daishiman 10y ago
That applies to everyone in life and you're already doing that by looking at an algorithmically curated feed. I'd much rather it at least tell me what's fake news so I don't waste my time.
adamsea 10y ago
Facebook itself is already a bunch of powerful people - the people who make the decisions about how content is served to users.It's already a centralized source of power. Facebook already exercises this power by deciding how to determine what users "want" to see, i.e., what Facebook thinks users want to see. I'm not sure how you could claim that individual Facebook users have much power at all. What they see is totally determined by the platform.
ThrustVectoring 10y ago
Facebook doesn't show people things Facebook thinks they'd want to see. Facebook shows people things that Facebook thinks will get them to spend more time on Facebook. There's a very important distinction between the two.

by makomk 10y ago

snowwrestler 10y ago

Thinking about politics first is a backward way to look at the world. We need to know the truth about facts. Only then can we make useful political decisions about those facts.

wu-ikkyu 10y ago
"The truth about facts" is extremely ambiguous. However, I'm sure the new Minitrue department at Facebook will solve this problem.
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics? Facebook fact checking materials before displaying them is fundamentally political, if only because the decision of filtering strategy is a political choice.
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  A news story that the Pope endorsed Trump is fiction and should be labeled as such. That has political implications because everything does. But evaluating content based on those implications, rather than on the actual facts, is a categorical error. We label fiction and nonfiction in libraries, book stores, movies, magazines, etc--basically every other medium for accessing content. Why not Facebook too?
  - ikeyany 10y ago
    How do you define fiction? "The Pope endorses Trump" would be labeled as fiction. But what about "The Pope endorses [some of] Trump's views"? Or "The Pope is a bigger fan of Trump than you think"?
    - jamespo 10y ago
      How about start with the most blatant examples... like spam detection
    - snowwrestler 10y ago
      Facebook is not even addressing the most blatant, obvious fake news. In fact, they do the opposite: they promote it to millions of people. Or more accurately, they permit their software to do so. And they claim they have no responsibility, even though they built the entire thing.
      - orionblastar 10y ago
        Facebook does not want to lose revenue from advertisers that submit fake news articles. I saw the BS News extension it checks each link for citing known fake news sites in their article. It is not practical as I keep seeing new fake news sites popping up from nowhere. Just register a domain, install Wordpress, write some articles and then pay for advertising on Facebook. Fake news sites got Trump elected by saying false things like the Pope supports him. It is serious when people only use Facebook as their only news site and read and believe without checking the facts first. If I were to make a fake news site detector I'd have it search Snopes and Politifact and others to see if it has been already reported as false. Basically the way it ends up is a new way to censor the news using AI. Suppose instead of a black list of sites they use a white list of trusted sites? Then block any new sites until they can verify them as trusted?
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    You didnt answer my question at all: how does Facebook, prior to the political decision of how to determine what facts are, know that the Pope endorsing Trump is fiction?
- michaelt 10y ago
  How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics? Perhaps they could determine what facts are by seeing if they're true or not? For example, if an article states that Colorado pot shops accept food stamps [1] or that Dearborn in Michigan follows Sharia law [2] perhaps Facebook could determine those articles are satirical because they aren't true? [1] http://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/14/fake-report-about-colorado-pot-shops-food-stamps-creates-havoc/ http://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/14/fake-report-about-color... [2] http://nationalreport.net/city-michigan-first-fully-implement-sharia-law/ http://nationalreport.net/city-michigan-first-fully-implemen...
  - serge2k 10y ago
    ha, it's quite obvious if you check the front page http://nationalreport.net/ http://nationalreport.net/ They may need to make things more obvious.
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    How does Facebook determine if something is true prior to the political choice of the method they'll use to determine truth? You just moved words around, but my original question is still there: how do you without any political decisions determine what is true? There is no single method for determining truth, thus which for a collective to use is fundamentally a political choice. You and a sibling comment seem to be forgetting that we need to decide how we're going to determine truth before we go about doing it. In fact, you assume Facebook knows a fact (that potshops dont accept foodstamps), but how does Facebook know that is a fact or not?
- serge2k 10y ago
  > How does Facebook determine what facts are without politics Facts are facts. The pope did not endorse Donald Trump. That is a fact.
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    How does Facebook, without making a choice about what method to use, determine that the pope didn't endorse Donald Trump? If Facebook makes a choice of method, it's fundamentally political, as all group choices are. Thus, Facebook can't escape the political nature of that task: epistemology requires a philosophical position, and a philosophocal position being adopted is a choice (for an organization), and all group decisions are inherently political.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

Daishiman 10y ago

That applies to everyone in life and you're already doing that by looking at an algorithmically curated feed. I'd much rather it at least tell me what's fake news so I don't waste my time.

adamsea 10y ago

Facebook itself is already a bunch of powerful people - the people who make the decisions about how content is served to users.It's already a centralized source of power. Facebook already exercises this power by deciding how to determine what users "want" to see, i.e., what Facebook thinks users want to see. I'm not sure how you could claim that individual Facebook users have much power at all. What they see is totally determined by the platform.

ThrustVectoring 10y ago

Facebook doesn't show people things Facebook thinks they'd want to see. Facebook shows people things that Facebook thinks will get them to spend more time on Facebook. There's a very important distinction between the two.