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Yeah, but to really appreciate it I think one needs to have programmed in assembly. Unlike the author of the original article, of course. C is going to look ho

Yeah, but to really appreciate it I think one needs to have programmed in assembly. Unlike the author of the original article, of course. C is going to look horrible if you've only ever used python. That's because you don't understand at all about real computers and how to program them.

throwanem 10y ago
I've known a number of EEs who have spent much of their professional time writing assembly and C to run on embedded hardware. Perhaps oddly, despite being ideally placed for it, none of them has ever displayed the sort of "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" elitism you do here. I wonder why that is.
- torrent-of-ions 10y ago
  I did not say anything about "real programmers". This came from your own mind.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Not using the exact phrase isn't the same as not invoking the concept. Disingenuousness benefits no one, especially when it's obvious.
    - torrent-of-ions 10y ago
      I can't help it if it invokes the concept inside you. I've programmed extensively in assembler and C, and I've programmed extensively in Lisp. I see the benefits of programming a real computer and the benefits of programming an abstract one. My point was merely that if you have not been exposed to the real computer you will not see why C is the way it is.
K0SM0S 10y ago
To be fair, one probably wouldn't go much beyond malloc lest they at least roughly knew how memory works, heap/stack, etc.
- torrent-of-ions 10y ago
  The word is "unless". Be careful with words like "lest" if you don't fully understand the meaning (it is not synonymous with "unless"). But no, trust me there are C programmers who use malloc and friends without knowing about the heap and stack. For those programmers it's just how you "get memory" in C. It's just part of the language for them (as opposed to part of the operating system).
kstrauser 10y ago
Assembly was my second language and C my 3rd or 4th, but I use Python because I got tired of proving every single day that I Understand About Real Computers. At some point I decided to stop feeding my ego and start getting stuff done. I think of myself as dumb when it comes to C, but objectively I'm OK with writing multithreaded memory management stuff so I'm probably not exactly at the drawing with crayons stage. I can get those things right given a big enough time and money budget. It's just that I'd rather spend my days doing just about anything else.
- RUG3Y 10y ago
  I can understand both perspectives. I'm not really a professional programmer. I started as a kid programming basic on my Apple II, but only dabbled until a few years ago, when I really got into Python/ Javascript/ Ruby. Learning C after the fact has opened up a lot of understanding for me, it allows me to be more confident when I'm using easier languages like Python.

throwanem 10y ago

I've known a number of EEs who have spent much of their professional time writing assembly and C to run on embedded hardware. Perhaps oddly, despite being ideally placed for it, none of them has ever displayed the sort of "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" elitism you do here. I wonder why that is.

torrent-of-ions 10y ago
I did not say anything about "real programmers". This came from your own mind.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Not using the exact phrase isn't the same as not invoking the concept. Disingenuousness benefits no one, especially when it's obvious.
  - torrent-of-ions 10y ago
    I can't help it if it invokes the concept inside you. I've programmed extensively in assembler and C, and I've programmed extensively in Lisp. I see the benefits of programming a real computer and the benefits of programming an abstract one. My point was merely that if you have not been exposed to the real computer you will not see why C is the way it is.

K0SM0S 10y ago

To be fair, one probably wouldn't go much beyond malloc lest they at least roughly knew how memory works, heap/stack, etc.

torrent-of-ions 10y ago
The word is "unless". Be careful with words like "lest" if you don't fully understand the meaning (it is not synonymous with "unless"). But no, trust me there are C programmers who use malloc and friends without knowing about the heap and stack. For those programmers it's just how you "get memory" in C. It's just part of the language for them (as opposed to part of the operating system).

kstrauser 10y ago

Assembly was my second language and C my 3rd or 4th, but I use Python because I got tired of proving every single day that I Understand About Real Computers. At some point I decided to stop feeding my ego and start getting stuff done. I think of myself as dumb when it comes to C, but objectively I'm OK with writing multithreaded memory management stuff so I'm probably not exactly at the drawing with crayons stage. I can get those things right given a big enough time and money budget. It's just that I'd rather spend my days doing just about anything else.

RUG3Y 10y ago
I can understand both perspectives. I'm not really a professional programmer. I started as a kid programming basic on my Apple II, but only dabbled until a few years ago, when I really got into Python/ Javascript/ Ruby. Learning C after the fact has opened up a lot of understanding for me, it allows me to be more confident when I'm using easier languages like Python.