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What do we know so far? - Gut Bacteria are involved - Inflammation is involved - The brain works on glucose - The brain can also work on Ketones - Cinnamon

What do we know so far? - Gut Bacteria are involved - Inflammation is involved - The brain works on glucose - The brain can also work on Ketones - Cinnamon seems to help in mice trials (and also has anti-inflammatory properties). - Could diabetes be analogous to Parkinson's? Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); could Parkinsons be caused by people being very dopamine focused and wearing their brains out? I wonder if diet can change the type of bacteria in the gut, the inflammation in the body, have a neuroprotective effect on the brain? Sounds like I'd try a ketogenic diet which has known neuroprotective effects, changes the bateria in your gut and reduces inflammation.

Terr_ 10y ago
I feel like your post is a is a rhetorical bait-and-switch: Only the first two points seem to be related to the article, the rest are from elsewhere and chosen ahead of time to guide the user towards a particular conclusion.
- bArray 10y ago
  I think it's up to the reader to draw which ever conclusions they wish. I don't think this person is writing with any other purpose other than to share an opinion. But... If you have points to the contrary of what the person has said, please raise them instead of guessing at their motive.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Maybe you are right, I was just thinking out loud about these things. Here is a very small scale study done in regard to this... https://www.charliefoundation.org/ketogenic-therapy/therapies-3/parkinsons-disease https://www.charliefoundation.org/ketogenic-therapy/therapie...
bArray 10y ago
Exactly my line of thinking. Sounds like a study should be done on the diets of those with Parkinson's compared to the "average" diet. There's a chance for too much or too little of something that could make a difference. I would also like to see a comprehensive study of the immune systems of those with and without, perhaps these people have little protection against these gut bacteria. The most interesting cases would be those with the right conditions for Parkinson's yet do not have it. I think those cases would be very revealing. It's also interesting that these bacteria are transferable across species. What if these bacteria are found in common meats from aanimal? When preparing an animal to remove it's meat, I imagine there's an off chance the gut is split in removal - which they probably just hose down the animal as not to waste the meat. Or perhaps the bacteria has the ability to spread in the host? This research has definitely opened up new avenues to look for root cause and possible prevention.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  I can't imagine that diet and immune system studies haven't been done on Parkinson's sufferers?
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    I've found it very difficult to find papers or research on this...
  - bArray 10y ago
    Perhaps they have, but this new research may give more incentive to look much harder. If there is a link, I would imagine that it would not be trivial - otherwise as you say it would probably have been found.
tudorw 10y ago
look at CYP2D6 gene polymorphism and it's effect on enzymes and it's existence in many more parts of the body than at first expected, (brain, etc), here's someone smarter than me replying to my stabs in the dark on reddit; "Enzymes are proteins that catalyze (speed up) reactions and consequently are involved in nearly every physiological process. You make a great point with the microbiota-brain interaction (also known as the gut-brain axis). We're starting to look at things like depression as a function of the gut-brain axis and consequently need to start looking to diet and antibiotics as a function of depression. " https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/4c0nuz/im_interested_in_restoring_brain_plasticity_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/4c0nuz/im_inter...
jawngee 10y ago
Could diabetes be analogous to Parkinson's? Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); No. I'm assuming you are talking about type 2, which has nothing to do with the ability to process carbs but instead resistance to insulin. This is caused by so many different factors like genes, medications, stress, smoking, high intake of certain types of fats, lack of exercise, white rice, pollution, etc. You can't be talking about type 1 because you'd be absurdly wrong if you were. Source: parent of type 1 diabetic
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Are you seriously arguing that eating excessively processed carbs and sugar doesn't lead to insulin resistance? What about if I was to start injecting large amounts of insulin regularly?
  - bonesinger 10y ago
    Hes pointing out that what you said was factually incorrect. Diabetics don't lose the ability to process carbs at all. Carbs are broken down along with proteins and fats. What Type 2 diabetes entails is glucose building up in the bloodstream with no real way to utilize it due to insulin resistance.
    - andy_ppp 10y ago
      Er... you are just assuming by process I mean digest. To be clear: > glucose building up in the bloodstream with no real way to utilize it === Inability to process carbs and sugar. Maybe your description is more accurate.
      - bonesinger 10y ago
        Using the term "inability to process carbs and sugar" is misleading and totally not the same thing as insulin resistance. Its generally assumed that processing carbs is the act of digestion. You're using the word processed in the wrong situation here. EDIT: Also you can still process carbs, you just can't utilize glucose in the blood as a diabetic.
rjain15 10y ago
I heard on NPR that common cold viruses are also some how related to the gut.
pascalmemories 10y ago
> Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many) That's an outrageous misrepresentation of diabetes (all types). Diabetics process carbs exactly like everyone else. The body breaks them down and throws the sugars into the bloodstream in the perfectly normal way. The lack of insulin (generally Type 1) or the resistance to insulin present (generally Type 2), means the cells struggle to process the glucose, leading to uncontrolled rise in glucose levels to dangerous levels. The body has a poor 'over-limit' response to glucose and tries rather inefficiently to dump the excess in urine which has limited success. As a consequence lots of short-term and long-term damage to the body results - some of which is still being discovered. Causes of diabetes have multiple possible elements, including none, one or more of : genetics, environmental [e.g. infection] and lifestyle. "eating too many [carbs]" is a myth and intended to be derisive and offensively stereotype diabetics as being wholly responsible for their condition - just dressed up as a more socially acceptable victim-blame than saying they're receiving God's punishment for having sugar in their coffee. Science has conclusively proven diabetes is not some simple response to over-indulgence in carbohydrate. Stop making offensive and untrue claims.
- mankyd 10y ago
  I am curious. Did you really find his claim "offensive"? Or was it simply incorrect and over simplified?
  - pascalmemories 10y ago
    Every time I hear it, it is offensive. Let me explain why. It's often quoted in the context of a relatively young person who has died and people discussing the young and sudden death as 'well, they were diabetic, so they died because they just kept eating donuts and didn't stop when they were told'. That brings no comfort to the family and it is often completely untrue. Most diabetics do try very hard to deal with their condition responsibly but simply stopping eating carbohydrate is not really a 'cure' or answer to the condition. Some may chose to deal with it, in part, by doing this because they feel that helps them specifically. But that is not the case for everyone. Anyone who said a cancer patient died because they brought it upon themselves would rightfully expect to be ostracized (or worse) but, for some bizarre reason, people are happy to unquestioningly accept the point for diabetes, but not cancer (another disease with complex reasons behind it). Addressing some other comments, insulin resistance can be a natural condition due to genetic factors and occur in the absence of excessive carbohydrate consumption. It can also develop in type 1 diabetes as a reaction to the artificial insulin introduced to control the condition (GM 'human' insulins can help but sometimes switching to Bovine/Pork insulins helps - again, it's complex and not well understood). Low carbohydrate consumption may mask the condition, but the person is still insulin resistant/diabetic regardless of whether they eat carbohydrate or not. Diabetes is not cure-able (yet - there are pioneering attempts). I know diabetics devastated with guilt that they've somehow caused their diabetes and are responsible because someone told them it is because - based on no evidence at all - they eat too much sugar. Perpetrating this myth and forcing guilt upon diabetics is potentially psychologically damaging, especially to a group know to have a higher propensity to depression because of the condition. My final point on the matter, some diabetics have a form which is virtually impossible to manage manually and the only avenue for treatment is to use the new insulin pump technology which can combine continuous glucose monitoring with ultra-fine insulin control (complex time slot/insulin sensitivity/carbohydrate dosage calculations) in order to control the condition. This is showing excellent results but does come with considerable costs - although these are a small fraction of the cost of amputations, blindness or organ failure which can otherwise result.
paulcole 10y ago
>Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many) Impressively wrong
PerfectElement 10y ago
I never know what people mean by "carbs". Are they typically referring to refined foods like white bread, white rice, etc? Or are they actually talking about the macronutrient? When it comes to the macronutrient, high-carb populations eating whole foods are among the healthiests in the world (look at the blue zones, adventists studies, okinawans, etc).
andy_ppp 10y ago
Sorry that we got sidelined with carbs and diabetes on this, it's pretty off topic. My fault for being inaccurate probably. Please watch this, especially if you have been downvoting me: http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_abo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do Also: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-great-medical-disconnect http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-great-medical-disconn... Enjoy!
outworlder 10y ago
> Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); This is very wrong, but the stuff in the parenthesis is even more so. Please do not mix type 1 and type 2 diabetes. While it could be argued that type 2 is improved by diet, the amount of carbs eaten by type 1 diabetics is completely and utterly irrelevant, there's no correlation between that and them developing the disease. Source: diabetic brother from an early age. > could Parkinsons be caused by people being very dopamine focused and wearing their brains out? Unlikely. I have not seen any indications that dopamine is involved in any Parkinson mechanism at all.

Terr_ 10y ago

I feel like your post is a is a rhetorical bait-and-switch: Only the first two points seem to be related to the article, the rest are from elsewhere and chosen ahead of time to guide the user towards a particular conclusion.

bArray 10y ago
I think it's up to the reader to draw which ever conclusions they wish. I don't think this person is writing with any other purpose other than to share an opinion. But... If you have points to the contrary of what the person has said, please raise them instead of guessing at their motive.
andy_ppp 10y ago
Maybe you are right, I was just thinking out loud about these things. Here is a very small scale study done in regard to this... https://www.charliefoundation.org/ketogenic-therapy/therapies-3/parkinsons-disease https://www.charliefoundation.org/ketogenic-therapy/therapie...

bArray 10y ago

Exactly my line of thinking. Sounds like a study should be done on the diets of those with Parkinson's compared to the "average" diet. There's a chance for too much or too little of something that could make a difference. I would also like to see a comprehensive study of the immune systems of those with and without, perhaps these people have little protection against these gut bacteria. The most interesting cases would be those with the right conditions for Parkinson's yet do not have it. I think those cases would be very revealing. It's also interesting that these bacteria are transferable across species. What if these bacteria are found in common meats from aanimal? When preparing an animal to remove it's meat, I imagine there's an off chance the gut is split in removal - which they probably just hose down the animal as not to waste the meat. Or perhaps the bacteria has the ability to spread in the host? This research has definitely opened up new avenues to look for root cause and possible prevention.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
I can't imagine that diet and immune system studies haven't been done on Parkinson's sufferers?
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  I've found it very difficult to find papers or research on this...
- bArray 10y ago
  Perhaps they have, but this new research may give more incentive to look much harder. If there is a link, I would imagine that it would not be trivial - otherwise as you say it would probably have been found.

tudorw 10y ago

look at CYP2D6 gene polymorphism and it's effect on enzymes and it's existence in many more parts of the body than at first expected, (brain, etc), here's someone smarter than me replying to my stabs in the dark on reddit; "Enzymes are proteins that catalyze (speed up) reactions and consequently are involved in nearly every physiological process. You make a great point with the microbiota-brain interaction (also known as the gut-brain axis). We're starting to look at things like depression as a function of the gut-brain axis and consequently need to start looking to diet and antibiotics as a function of depression. " https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/4c0nuz/im_interested_in_restoring_brain_plasticity_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/4c0nuz/im_inter...

jawngee 10y ago

Could diabetes be analogous to Parkinson's? Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); No. I'm assuming you are talking about type 2, which has nothing to do with the ability to process carbs but instead resistance to insulin. This is caused by so many different factors like genes, medications, stress, smoking, high intake of certain types of fats, lack of exercise, white rice, pollution, etc. You can't be talking about type 1 because you'd be absurdly wrong if you were. Source: parent of type 1 diabetic

andy_ppp 10y ago
Are you seriously arguing that eating excessively processed carbs and sugar doesn't lead to insulin resistance? What about if I was to start injecting large amounts of insulin regularly?
- bonesinger 10y ago
  Hes pointing out that what you said was factually incorrect. Diabetics don't lose the ability to process carbs at all. Carbs are broken down along with proteins and fats. What Type 2 diabetes entails is glucose building up in the bloodstream with no real way to utilize it due to insulin resistance.
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    Er... you are just assuming by process I mean digest. To be clear: > glucose building up in the bloodstream with no real way to utilize it === Inability to process carbs and sugar. Maybe your description is more accurate.
    - bonesinger 10y ago
      Using the term "inability to process carbs and sugar" is misleading and totally not the same thing as insulin resistance. Its generally assumed that processing carbs is the act of digestion. You're using the word processed in the wrong situation here. EDIT: Also you can still process carbs, you just can't utilize glucose in the blood as a diabetic.

rjain15 10y ago

I heard on NPR that common cold viruses are also some how related to the gut.

pascalmemories 10y ago

> Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many) That's an outrageous misrepresentation of diabetes (all types). Diabetics process carbs exactly like everyone else. The body breaks them down and throws the sugars into the bloodstream in the perfectly normal way. The lack of insulin (generally Type 1) or the resistance to insulin present (generally Type 2), means the cells struggle to process the glucose, leading to uncontrolled rise in glucose levels to dangerous levels. The body has a poor 'over-limit' response to glucose and tries rather inefficiently to dump the excess in urine which has limited success. As a consequence lots of short-term and long-term damage to the body results - some of which is still being discovered. Causes of diabetes have multiple possible elements, including none, one or more of : genetics, environmental [e.g. infection] and lifestyle. "eating too many [carbs]" is a myth and intended to be derisive and offensively stereotype diabetics as being wholly responsible for their condition - just dressed up as a more socially acceptable victim-blame than saying they're receiving God's punishment for having sugar in their coffee. Science has conclusively proven diabetes is not some simple response to over-indulgence in carbohydrate. Stop making offensive and untrue claims.

mankyd 10y ago
I am curious. Did you really find his claim "offensive"? Or was it simply incorrect and over simplified?
- pascalmemories 10y ago
  Every time I hear it, it is offensive. Let me explain why. It's often quoted in the context of a relatively young person who has died and people discussing the young and sudden death as 'well, they were diabetic, so they died because they just kept eating donuts and didn't stop when they were told'. That brings no comfort to the family and it is often completely untrue. Most diabetics do try very hard to deal with their condition responsibly but simply stopping eating carbohydrate is not really a 'cure' or answer to the condition. Some may chose to deal with it, in part, by doing this because they feel that helps them specifically. But that is not the case for everyone. Anyone who said a cancer patient died because they brought it upon themselves would rightfully expect to be ostracized (or worse) but, for some bizarre reason, people are happy to unquestioningly accept the point for diabetes, but not cancer (another disease with complex reasons behind it). Addressing some other comments, insulin resistance can be a natural condition due to genetic factors and occur in the absence of excessive carbohydrate consumption. It can also develop in type 1 diabetes as a reaction to the artificial insulin introduced to control the condition (GM 'human' insulins can help but sometimes switching to Bovine/Pork insulins helps - again, it's complex and not well understood). Low carbohydrate consumption may mask the condition, but the person is still insulin resistant/diabetic regardless of whether they eat carbohydrate or not. Diabetes is not cure-able (yet - there are pioneering attempts). I know diabetics devastated with guilt that they've somehow caused their diabetes and are responsible because someone told them it is because - based on no evidence at all - they eat too much sugar. Perpetrating this myth and forcing guilt upon diabetics is potentially psychologically damaging, especially to a group know to have a higher propensity to depression because of the condition. My final point on the matter, some diabetics have a form which is virtually impossible to manage manually and the only avenue for treatment is to use the new insulin pump technology which can combine continuous glucose monitoring with ultra-fine insulin control (complex time slot/insulin sensitivity/carbohydrate dosage calculations) in order to control the condition. This is showing excellent results but does come with considerable costs - although these are a small fraction of the cost of amputations, blindness or organ failure which can otherwise result.

paulcole 10y ago

>Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many) Impressively wrong

PerfectElement 10y ago

I never know what people mean by "carbs". Are they typically referring to refined foods like white bread, white rice, etc? Or are they actually talking about the macronutrient? When it comes to the macronutrient, high-carb populations eating whole foods are among the healthiests in the world (look at the blue zones, adventists studies, okinawans, etc).

andy_ppp 10y ago

Sorry that we got sidelined with carbs and diabetes on this, it's pretty off topic. My fault for being inaccurate probably. Please watch this, especially if you have been downvoting me: http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_abo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do Also: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-great-medical-disconnect http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-great-medical-disconn... Enjoy!

outworlder 10y ago

> Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); This is very wrong, but the stuff in the parenthesis is even more so. Please do not mix type 1 and type 2 diabetes. While it could be argued that type 2 is improved by diet, the amount of carbs eaten by type 1 diabetics is completely and utterly irrelevant, there's no correlation between that and them developing the disease. Source: diabetic brother from an early age. > could Parkinsons be caused by people being very dopamine focused and wearing their brains out? Unlikely. I have not seen any indications that dopamine is involved in any Parkinson mechanism at all.