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The fact that there is so much concern over how to differentiate mined diamonds from grown diamonds seems like insanity to me. I understand that the diamond tra

by mojoe 10y ago

The fact that there is so much concern over how to differentiate mined diamonds from grown diamonds seems like insanity to me. I understand that the diamond trade has a vested interest in differentiating, but why would end consumer care? They're the exact same product to the unaided eye. This is a purely emotional response. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that it's a misguided emotional response -- it seems clear that it would reduce human and environmental suffering to purchase the grown diamonds.

remarkEon 10y ago
In Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep owning a "real" animal was considered a status symbol, since most "real" species had died from radiation poisoning. The poor and middle class could, of course, only afford the synthetic animals. Obviously this isn't exactly like that, but I imagine there will still be a market for mined diamonds and they'd be priced accordingly.
curun1r 10y ago
Because the purveyors of diamonds, and you could argue jewelry in general, have positioned themselves as proxies for love and sex. Those are the things we value and the reasons we spend money, but we're not allowed, either by societal convention or law, to spend money on them directly. But we're allowed to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a glittery status symbols that serves as a measure of devotion. It's not the rock itself that's important, it's the willingness to sacrifice a substantial amount of money. So if the point of buying a diamond is to show your love for someone by sacrificing a meaningful amount of money, it becomes important to distinguish between stones that someone actually sacrificed a substantial amount of money to purchase and stones where someone didn't sacrifice as much. We'd do better to address the insane custom of needing an expensive proxy for love. Think about it...if the custom were for a man to take two months salary, withdraw it from the bank in $100 bills, drop to one knee and present it to his girlfriend while asking her to marry him, we'd find that insulting. It would be like he's paying for love/sex, which our society deems dirty or objectifying to women. But substitute a glittery rock mounted on a hunk of metal, both largely obtained by heaping further misery on various third-world locations, and we somehow find that acceptable? Accepting the money would make her a whore, but accepting the ring just means her boyfriend loves her? It's illogical and hopefully more women start making it known to their boyfriends that the ring isn't necessary and all that extra money, if it needs to be spent on something impractical, can be spent on making the wedding just a bit more lavish.
- nwellinghoff 10y ago
  Very wise. It's going to be up to the women to tell their men they don't want this crap. At the end of the day us men are just going to get you what you want to make you happy.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    Or, you could simply stop chasing after shallow, selfish women who demand these things. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier if you avoid them and look instead for a woman you can respect (because personally, I can't respect a woman who has this mentality). Marrying someone you don't respect is not a recipe for long-term happiness.
Someone 10y ago
"why would end consumer care? […] This is a purely emotional response" Most consumers buy diamonds on emotion, not ratio. If you're buying something to carve into glass with, you don't care. De Beers (very successfully, so far) markets natural diamonds as something you buy to express your love with. If you did _that_ rationally, you likely wouldn't buy a diamond at all.
vegabook 10y ago
a large part of the point of a diamond is the emotional response. It's not just about how it looks, it's about how rare it is, even if only you know it.
- torrent-of-ions 10y ago
  I guess you mean you think it, because natural diamonds are not that rare.
Tepix 10y ago
I don't get it either. It's very similar with pearls. As long as they look great and last as long as the natural variant, why should I care?
dragonwriter 10y ago
> I understand that the diamond trade has a vested interest in differentiating, but why would end consumer care? Because for some consumers, the scarcity (artificial though it may be) of mined diamonds is what they are buying for. And because for other consumers, ethical concerns that favor artifical diamonds are what they are buying for. In either case, knowing that you are getting what you want and not something else is a concern. > This is a purely emotional response. Value is always subjective and largely emotional.

by mojoe 10y ago

remarkEon 10y ago

In Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep owning a "real" animal was considered a status symbol, since most "real" species had died from radiation poisoning. The poor and middle class could, of course, only afford the synthetic animals. Obviously this isn't exactly like that, but I imagine there will still be a market for mined diamonds and they'd be priced accordingly.

curun1r 10y ago

Because the purveyors of diamonds, and you could argue jewelry in general, have positioned themselves as proxies for love and sex. Those are the things we value and the reasons we spend money, but we're not allowed, either by societal convention or law, to spend money on them directly. But we're allowed to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a glittery status symbols that serves as a measure of devotion. It's not the rock itself that's important, it's the willingness to sacrifice a substantial amount of money. So if the point of buying a diamond is to show your love for someone by sacrificing a meaningful amount of money, it becomes important to distinguish between stones that someone actually sacrificed a substantial amount of money to purchase and stones where someone didn't sacrifice as much. We'd do better to address the insane custom of needing an expensive proxy for love. Think about it...if the custom were for a man to take two months salary, withdraw it from the bank in $100 bills, drop to one knee and present it to his girlfriend while asking her to marry him, we'd find that insulting. It would be like he's paying for love/sex, which our society deems dirty or objectifying to women. But substitute a glittery rock mounted on a hunk of metal, both largely obtained by heaping further misery on various third-world locations, and we somehow find that acceptable? Accepting the money would make her a whore, but accepting the ring just means her boyfriend loves her? It's illogical and hopefully more women start making it known to their boyfriends that the ring isn't necessary and all that extra money, if it needs to be spent on something impractical, can be spent on making the wedding just a bit more lavish.

nwellinghoff 10y ago
Very wise. It's going to be up to the women to tell their men they don't want this crap. At the end of the day us men are just going to get you what you want to make you happy.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Or, you could simply stop chasing after shallow, selfish women who demand these things. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier if you avoid them and look instead for a woman you can respect (because personally, I can't respect a woman who has this mentality). Marrying someone you don't respect is not a recipe for long-term happiness.

Someone 10y ago

"why would end consumer care? […] This is a purely emotional response" Most consumers buy diamonds on emotion, not ratio. If you're buying something to carve into glass with, you don't care. De Beers (very successfully, so far) markets natural diamonds as something you buy to express your love with. If you did _that_ rationally, you likely wouldn't buy a diamond at all.

vegabook 10y ago

a large part of the point of a diamond is the emotional response. It's not just about how it looks, it's about how rare it is, even if only you know it.

torrent-of-ions 10y ago
I guess you mean you think it, because natural diamonds are not that rare.

Tepix 10y ago

I don't get it either. It's very similar with pearls. As long as they look great and last as long as the natural variant, why should I care?

dragonwriter 10y ago

> I understand that the diamond trade has a vested interest in differentiating, but why would end consumer care? Because for some consumers, the scarcity (artificial though it may be) of mined diamonds is what they are buying for. And because for other consumers, ethical concerns that favor artifical diamonds are what they are buying for. In either case, knowing that you are getting what you want and not something else is a concern. > This is a purely emotional response. Value is always subjective and largely emotional.