5 ms·

I don't think 19guid has a problem with using a toilet or being an asshole. I think the question is why is dissent from specific political views looked down upo

by Veelox 10y ago

I don't think 19guid has a problem with using a toilet or being an asshole. I think the question is why is dissent from specific political views looked down upon? I have been in Silicon Valley for almost a year now after moving from the Midwest. I have been able to talk freely with my coworkers about some of my conservative views. Yet when I have shared what would count as "traditional values" on internal forums I have been on the receiving end of redicual and name calling. I very much would like to hear a thoughtful response on why Silicon Valley is so unaccepting of political dissent.

andrewflnr 10y ago
It never looks like a "political" issue when you're convinced it's a human rights issue. For a human rights issue, the other side's feelings don't matter because they're obviously assholes anyway, so you can do whatever you want to them to advance The Cause.
dancek 10y ago
I'd also love to hear an explanation from someone intolerant of dissent. I attribute it to the history of feminism. First-wave feminism genuinely dealt with human rights issues where dissent was based on a twisted view of humanity (e.g. women are property of men, not autonomous subjects). The late third and fourth waves have kept the same assumption about the nature of their views. But the views themselves are very much more extreme and unintuitive. Again, I'd love to hear someone explain it better from their own feminist point of view.
danspencer 10y ago
You have a good point. A friend of mine works at Yahoo and he regularly gets emails from management encouraging everyone to show up at the Yahoo booth at Gay Pride Parade. Sure, Yahoo wants to be at Gay Pride Parade because they want to be seen as an open and accepting place. If Yahoo does not participate, it looks bad because every other big company (read: Yahoo's competitors) attends Gay Pride Parade too. But now we have a problem. What if there are conservative employees who do not support gay marriage rights? Should their opinions and feelings not count? If Yahoo is an open and accepting place, then it should be just as acceptable for a manager to send emails to employees inviting them to Straight Parade, or to "Anti Gay Marriage" Parade. But if that were to happen, the manager would be fired immediately. Being against Gay Marriage rights is a political opinion, just like being FOR Gay Marriage rights. Isn't it discriminatory that a company like Yahoo is only allowing one opinion to be heard? In fact, isn't it problematic that Yahoo is promoting ANY political opinion in the first place? For Yahoo to remain an accepting and open work place, it should either have no political agenda at all, or it should promote all political opinions equally.
- Aeolun 10y ago
  I think it promotes those opinions that are healthy for the business and the world in general. I mean, you could theoretically accept any viewpoint, but you don't really want nazis in your company to be an accepted thing.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    don't accept non-binary gendering == Nazi nice..
- rincebrain 10y ago
  There are several things to unpack here, but I'm going to stick to one. The primary difference, in practice, between something like Gay Pride and something like "Straight Pride", would be the power dynamic between the two. Historically, and even to some extent currently, the people with more power have been those who would be in the latter parade. "Punching up" is what it's called when you are challenging a group more powerful than you - "punching down" is more commonly referred to as "bullying".
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    This is the usual story, but power is more complicated than that. "up" and "down" assume a linear dimension. > Historically, and even to some extent currently Surely only the current situation matters? Why should the people now care about the power dynamic of the past?
    - rincebrain 10y ago
      Sure, it's not necessarily one dimensional, but it also doesn't just scale in terms of total magnitude summed across all dimensions (e.g. a bit of power in 50 axes is not comparable to the same quantity of power in one axis). The reason to care about the dynamic of the past is that people are influenced by the past - in particular, people's actions in the present are often based on things that they did or that were done to them in the past. Specifically, here, the reason to care about the past is that, even if/when we reached a point of equilibrium, where a subset of people were no longer in a minority of power, there would still likely be X Pride events for a while after, because the feeling of needing/wanting such things would not go away overnight.
poink 10y ago
The easiest way to start answering that question would be for you to share a traditional value with us.
- Veelox 10y ago
  I would say the values that marriage is between a man and a women and that ones gender should match their sex. Something worth noting is that since the election I have seen support of Trump receive similar treatment.

by Veelox 10y ago

andrewflnr 10y ago

It never looks like a "political" issue when you're convinced it's a human rights issue. For a human rights issue, the other side's feelings don't matter because they're obviously assholes anyway, so you can do whatever you want to them to advance The Cause.

dancek 10y ago

I'd also love to hear an explanation from someone intolerant of dissent. I attribute it to the history of feminism. First-wave feminism genuinely dealt with human rights issues where dissent was based on a twisted view of humanity (e.g. women are property of men, not autonomous subjects). The late third and fourth waves have kept the same assumption about the nature of their views. But the views themselves are very much more extreme and unintuitive. Again, I'd love to hear someone explain it better from their own feminist point of view.

danspencer 10y ago

You have a good point. A friend of mine works at Yahoo and he regularly gets emails from management encouraging everyone to show up at the Yahoo booth at Gay Pride Parade. Sure, Yahoo wants to be at Gay Pride Parade because they want to be seen as an open and accepting place. If Yahoo does not participate, it looks bad because every other big company (read: Yahoo's competitors) attends Gay Pride Parade too. But now we have a problem. What if there are conservative employees who do not support gay marriage rights? Should their opinions and feelings not count? If Yahoo is an open and accepting place, then it should be just as acceptable for a manager to send emails to employees inviting them to Straight Parade, or to "Anti Gay Marriage" Parade. But if that were to happen, the manager would be fired immediately. Being against Gay Marriage rights is a political opinion, just like being FOR Gay Marriage rights. Isn't it discriminatory that a company like Yahoo is only allowing one opinion to be heard? In fact, isn't it problematic that Yahoo is promoting ANY political opinion in the first place? For Yahoo to remain an accepting and open work place, it should either have no political agenda at all, or it should promote all political opinions equally.

Aeolun 10y ago
I think it promotes those opinions that are healthy for the business and the world in general. I mean, you could theoretically accept any viewpoint, but you don't really want nazis in your company to be an accepted thing.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  don't accept non-binary gendering == Nazi nice..
rincebrain 10y ago
There are several things to unpack here, but I'm going to stick to one. The primary difference, in practice, between something like Gay Pride and something like "Straight Pride", would be the power dynamic between the two. Historically, and even to some extent currently, the people with more power have been those who would be in the latter parade. "Punching up" is what it's called when you are challenging a group more powerful than you - "punching down" is more commonly referred to as "bullying".
- Chris2048 10y ago
  This is the usual story, but power is more complicated than that. "up" and "down" assume a linear dimension. > Historically, and even to some extent currently Surely only the current situation matters? Why should the people now care about the power dynamic of the past?
  - rincebrain 10y ago
    Sure, it's not necessarily one dimensional, but it also doesn't just scale in terms of total magnitude summed across all dimensions (e.g. a bit of power in 50 axes is not comparable to the same quantity of power in one axis). The reason to care about the dynamic of the past is that people are influenced by the past - in particular, people's actions in the present are often based on things that they did or that were done to them in the past. Specifically, here, the reason to care about the past is that, even if/when we reached a point of equilibrium, where a subset of people were no longer in a minority of power, there would still likely be X Pride events for a while after, because the feeling of needing/wanting such things would not go away overnight.

poink 10y ago

The easiest way to start answering that question would be for you to share a traditional value with us.

Veelox 10y ago
I would say the values that marriage is between a man and a women and that ones gender should match their sex. Something worth noting is that since the election I have seen support of Trump receive similar treatment.