4 ms·

If it's not worth Amazon's time to interview me in person then it's not worth my time to consider them as a potential employer. This is just lazy and they will

If it's not worth Amazon's time to interview me in person then it's not worth my time to consider them as a potential employer. This is just lazy and they will end up with lower quality candidates because of it.

mattzito 10y ago
I agree with your reasoning, i think the alternative perspective is that traveling somewhere to interview is a significant time commitment on my part, and I might welcome alternative testing approaches where I don't have to fly somewhere until I'm reasonably confident I'm going to get an offer.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
derefr 10y ago
They will probably fly you out after this, for another stage of the interview. But at the "FizzBuzz stage", they do really need to make sure that the person answering the question is the same person they're later flying out. There are a surprisingly large number of college students who've gotten used to "paying for grades", who attempt things like that.
- Aeolun 10y ago
  Maybe they should just conduct fizzbuzz then?
  - wyclif 10y ago
    I think the point is that even if employers do conduct fizzbuzz, some candidates use someone else's answer.
    - discordianfish 10y ago
      Some do and you will see this at on site. So how big is the harm really?
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Wasting thousands in travel and interview costs?
    - wheelerwj 10y ago
      those are the people you should hire. why would you pay to reinvent the wheel when you really need someone to invent better IAM controls?
      - joncrocks 10y ago
        Because the point of FizzBuzz is not to get a working FizzBuzz class that can be integrated into an application, it's to see if the candidate can actually produce a working version themselves. Imagine you're hiring someone to do your taxes. Sure, you'd expect them to use a calculator to do all the hard addition/subtraction, or more likely spreadsheets. But if you asked them to add 5 and 3, and they said "I would use a calculator, this is a stupid question, I can't just tell you off the top of my head" then you're probably not going to hire them. It's a super basic test of 'Can this person code themselves out a paper bag."
        wyclif 10y ago
        Thank you! For a few hours there I couldn't believe I was the only one in the thread that understood this.
        wheelerwj 10y ago
        which can be determined entirely without the aforementioned methodology. if you read the guys article, you'd see that he'd already completed the basic tests demonstrating basic competency. being able to solve problems is more important than how you solve problems. (generally speaking, yes i know there are exceptions)
        ajdlinux 10y ago
        http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000004115589/verbatim-expert-witness.html http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000004115589/verbati...
      - mannykannot 10y ago
        Because people who are both incompetent and deceitful are an utter waste of everybody's time, and also a liability?
chrismcb 10y ago
I interviewed with them a decade or so back. First interview was a phone screen. Ok makes sense. Second interview was another phone screen. Never mind the fact I lived about ten miles away. On there other hand two years ago I interviewed with a company on the other side of the country. After a half dozen phone interviews they decided to fly me out... For more interviews
grogenaut 10y ago
the internship IS the interview.
mathattack 10y ago
This seems to be a way for them to screen for the 1000s of entry level applicants, who don't have large supporting work histories. They need to screen them somehow. One way is "Only from this list of schools." Another is "Based on what some person thinks of your resume writing ability as a new engineering grad." Another is "Based on what our algorithm thinks of your ability to place keywords in your resume." I don't think this is that much worse an alternative for those who may not have other means to get into a prestigious company. When I was last in school I struggled with "networking your way into a company" and wound up landing my internship (and ultimately full employment) on the one company who offered a test before the "Fly you out to meet us" step.

mattzito 10y ago

I agree with your reasoning, i think the alternative perspective is that traveling somewhere to interview is a significant time commitment on my part, and I might welcome alternative testing approaches where I don't have to fly somewhere until I'm reasonably confident I'm going to get an offer.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

derefr 10y ago

They will probably fly you out after this, for another stage of the interview. But at the "FizzBuzz stage", they do really need to make sure that the person answering the question is the same person they're later flying out. There are a surprisingly large number of college students who've gotten used to "paying for grades", who attempt things like that.

Aeolun 10y ago
Maybe they should just conduct fizzbuzz then?
- wyclif 10y ago
  I think the point is that even if employers do conduct fizzbuzz, some candidates use someone else's answer.
  - discordianfish 10y ago
    Some do and you will see this at on site. So how big is the harm really?
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Wasting thousands in travel and interview costs?
  - wheelerwj 10y ago
    those are the people you should hire. why would you pay to reinvent the wheel when you really need someone to invent better IAM controls?
    - joncrocks 10y ago
      Because the point of FizzBuzz is not to get a working FizzBuzz class that can be integrated into an application, it's to see if the candidate can actually produce a working version themselves. Imagine you're hiring someone to do your taxes. Sure, you'd expect them to use a calculator to do all the hard addition/subtraction, or more likely spreadsheets. But if you asked them to add 5 and 3, and they said "I would use a calculator, this is a stupid question, I can't just tell you off the top of my head" then you're probably not going to hire them. It's a super basic test of 'Can this person code themselves out a paper bag."
      - wyclif 10y ago
        Thank you! For a few hours there I couldn't believe I was the only one in the thread that understood this.
      - wheelerwj 10y ago
        which can be determined entirely without the aforementioned methodology. if you read the guys article, you'd see that he'd already completed the basic tests demonstrating basic competency. being able to solve problems is more important than how you solve problems. (generally speaking, yes i know there are exceptions)
      - ajdlinux 10y ago
        http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000004115589/verbatim-expert-witness.html http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000004115589/verbati...
    - mannykannot 10y ago
      Because people who are both incompetent and deceitful are an utter waste of everybody's time, and also a liability?

chrismcb 10y ago

I interviewed with them a decade or so back. First interview was a phone screen. Ok makes sense. Second interview was another phone screen. Never mind the fact I lived about ten miles away. On there other hand two years ago I interviewed with a company on the other side of the country. After a half dozen phone interviews they decided to fly me out... For more interviews

grogenaut 10y ago

the internship IS the interview.

mathattack 10y ago

This seems to be a way for them to screen for the 1000s of entry level applicants, who don't have large supporting work histories. They need to screen them somehow. One way is "Only from this list of schools." Another is "Based on what some person thinks of your resume writing ability as a new engineering grad." Another is "Based on what our algorithm thinks of your ability to place keywords in your resume." I don't think this is that much worse an alternative for those who may not have other means to get into a prestigious company. When I was last in school I struggled with "networking your way into a company" and wound up landing my internship (and ultimately full employment) on the one company who offered a test before the "Fly you out to meet us" step.