4 ms·

I think you're missing the negative externalities inherent in oil extraction, like groundwater pollution, earthquakes, above ground pipelines, etc. Not to ment

I think you're missing the negative externalities inherent in oil extraction, like groundwater pollution, earthquakes, above ground pipelines, etc. Not to mention it's a little like saying Pablo Escobar doesn't OD on drugs or steal your TV very often, it's the crackheads that do that...

edblarney 10y ago
" like groundwater pollution, earthquakes, above ground pipelines, etc" Groundwater pollution and earthquakes are rare, and the latter are minor and have negligible impact. It's no more problematic than most other extraction industries. 'Above ground pipelines' are completely benign entities with almost zero environmental impact. Leaks are rare enough, and most of them are very minor and easy to clean up. Oil is an organic product, found commonly in nature, and small amounts of Oil spilled have no real impact. Unlike the big tanker spills, which can be devastating. The highway you drive your car on has considerably more environmental footprint than any 'above ground pipeline'.
- nostrademons 10y ago
  Would you want one in your back yard?
  - pixl97 10y ago
    My friend lived in house with an oil well in the back yard. Really wasn't noticeable after you got used to the noise it made. After a week I forgot it was there.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      Doesn't it stink? I remember very clearly the first time I visited western Texas (from Europe) as a child. The smell was sickening.
      - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
        Generally it is refineries that stink.
- edblarney 10y ago
  I wouldn't want a coffee shop 'in my backyard' and I have nothing against coffee shops. But if I had to chose between an Oil Pipeline and a 'highway' - I (and I think most people) would chose the Oil Pipeline any day of the week. You do realize they are quite common? And that natural gas pipelines - which carry the same carbon-based materials run everywhere in urban areas - and that there's a good chance there is a gas pipeline, literally, in your backyard right now? If you are living in an urban area, my guess is there is an 80% chance there's a carbon-based pipeline within 500m from where you are.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    The Energy Information Agency has a nice map of them: http://www.eia.gov/state/maps.cfm http://www.eia.gov/state/maps.cfm (turn off some layers to make it easier to look at) I guess that's transportation pipelines and not distribution pipelines though.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      That's a cool map. Pipelines are everywhere :). And yes, those don't include distribution which are nearly ubiquitous in many places.
- NotSammyHagar 10y ago
  It used to be that earthquakes were rare, but they aren't now, in places with fraking, such as Oklahoma and Dallas (!).
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    That injections wells ( not fracking - although they are related, hydrocarbon extraction activities ) cause earthquakes is still in the hypothesis phase.
    - josho 10y ago
      There seems to be correlation. Causation is not yet proven. In health and sciences that would be enough to prohibit certain activities. But when industry for the benefit of jobs, GDP, etc has its way it means continue as normal regardless of the warnings. This is why we are nearing a climate crisis. I suppose it is a form of the tragedy of the commons.
      - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
        The ready availability of hydrocarbons is a pretty significantly public good. Secondarily, the oil industry was one of the first ones regulated ( Sherman Act ) and when an industry is regulated, they get better and better at finding the edges to slip past over time. "In health and sciences this would be enough to.." is a massive problem, IMO. If the full measure of tobacco law is brought to bear on "energy companies", you could pretty well wreck the US economy without meaning to.
        NotSammyHagar 10y ago
        It appears to be clearly in the middle cigarette processing phase of actively denying any science, passing state laws prohibiting local control (see for example Dallas Texas). I expect it will take a while to get to the levels of the late cigarette industry (recognition that it has impact and controlling it to reduce danger).
at-fates-hands 10y ago
>>I think you're missing the negative externalities inherent in oil extraction The same can be said for the production of lithium-ion batteries. The mining and production of these batteries is just as bad for the environment. This is mainly due to the high concentration of Copper and Aluminum needed to make them work properly - which both need to be mined. Fuel cells are a much better alternative to both combustion engines or lithium-ion electric vehicles: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-08/phones-with-seven-day-battery-life-promised-by-fuel-cell-maker https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-08/phones-wi...

edblarney 10y ago

" like groundwater pollution, earthquakes, above ground pipelines, etc" Groundwater pollution and earthquakes are rare, and the latter are minor and have negligible impact. It's no more problematic than most other extraction industries. 'Above ground pipelines' are completely benign entities with almost zero environmental impact. Leaks are rare enough, and most of them are very minor and easy to clean up. Oil is an organic product, found commonly in nature, and small amounts of Oil spilled have no real impact. Unlike the big tanker spills, which can be devastating. The highway you drive your car on has considerably more environmental footprint than any 'above ground pipeline'.

nostrademons 10y ago
Would you want one in your back yard?
- pixl97 10y ago
  My friend lived in house with an oil well in the back yard. Really wasn't noticeable after you got used to the noise it made. After a week I forgot it was there.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    Doesn't it stink? I remember very clearly the first time I visited western Texas (from Europe) as a child. The smell was sickening.
    - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
      Generally it is refineries that stink.
edblarney 10y ago
I wouldn't want a coffee shop 'in my backyard' and I have nothing against coffee shops. But if I had to chose between an Oil Pipeline and a 'highway' - I (and I think most people) would chose the Oil Pipeline any day of the week. You do realize they are quite common? And that natural gas pipelines - which carry the same carbon-based materials run everywhere in urban areas - and that there's a good chance there is a gas pipeline, literally, in your backyard right now? If you are living in an urban area, my guess is there is an 80% chance there's a carbon-based pipeline within 500m from where you are.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  The Energy Information Agency has a nice map of them: http://www.eia.gov/state/maps.cfm http://www.eia.gov/state/maps.cfm (turn off some layers to make it easier to look at) I guess that's transportation pipelines and not distribution pipelines though.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    That's a cool map. Pipelines are everywhere :). And yes, those don't include distribution which are nearly ubiquitous in many places.
NotSammyHagar 10y ago
It used to be that earthquakes were rare, but they aren't now, in places with fraking, such as Oklahoma and Dallas (!).
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  That injections wells ( not fracking - although they are related, hydrocarbon extraction activities ) cause earthquakes is still in the hypothesis phase.
  - josho 10y ago
    There seems to be correlation. Causation is not yet proven. In health and sciences that would be enough to prohibit certain activities. But when industry for the benefit of jobs, GDP, etc has its way it means continue as normal regardless of the warnings. This is why we are nearing a climate crisis. I suppose it is a form of the tragedy of the commons.
    - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
      The ready availability of hydrocarbons is a pretty significantly public good. Secondarily, the oil industry was one of the first ones regulated ( Sherman Act ) and when an industry is regulated, they get better and better at finding the edges to slip past over time. "In health and sciences this would be enough to.." is a massive problem, IMO. If the full measure of tobacco law is brought to bear on "energy companies", you could pretty well wreck the US economy without meaning to.
      - NotSammyHagar 10y ago
        It appears to be clearly in the middle cigarette processing phase of actively denying any science, passing state laws prohibiting local control (see for example Dallas Texas). I expect it will take a while to get to the levels of the late cigarette industry (recognition that it has impact and controlling it to reduce danger).

at-fates-hands 10y ago

>>I think you're missing the negative externalities inherent in oil extraction The same can be said for the production of lithium-ion batteries. The mining and production of these batteries is just as bad for the environment. This is mainly due to the high concentration of Copper and Aluminum needed to make them work properly - which both need to be mined. Fuel cells are a much better alternative to both combustion engines or lithium-ion electric vehicles: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-08/phones-with-seven-day-battery-life-promised-by-fuel-cell-maker https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-08/phones-wi...