7 ms·

I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiab

I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiable scoring system that relies on subjective truth that is determined by a central government. Then again this is China, people have no way of speaking out against their government without risking their lives, and the government has no obligation other than maintaining their power over the population. I almost feel as if Xi is losing his grip on the population by introducing drastic internal policies like this that only names goals that appear to benefit the greater good but almost certainly driving his own agenda, even if it earns the ire of his surrounding peers. A foreign policy analysis of Xi's external facing policies are almost certainly always to further his internal grip which explains the bizarre & seemingly counter-productive positions he took against North Korea and South China Sea, that further drove neighbouring countries to America's arms....but with strange turn of events it seems that they will be undone from Trump's camp, much to the delight of Putin & Xi. Time will tell, but it's doubtful we will have anything but a government mouthpiece statician announcing the success of such policies. It's tough to know the real truth in societies where it is actively suppressed and manipulated by a single central entity. It's also difficult to say how long such systems will last without continuously taking on more risky and expensive internal policies that lags behind changing technology that disseminates information. but what's that saying? The person wielding the biggest stick in the room is the source of truth implying force is always the lowest common denominator in human societies. Afterall, America wouldn't be where it is today without its 14 nuclear powered floating airports with the most advanced weapon technologies that casts a shadow on any port it chooses to refuel in.

nabla9 10y ago
Credit scores have existed long time in the West. This just extends the idea. I live in country where positive credit scores are not allowed and I think US type credit score is creepy, but people used to it seem not to care. My fear is that it works all too well, especially in Chinese society.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.
  - gph 10y ago
    Not to mention it's mostly been recently that people/companies have started using Credit Scores outside the context of applying for a loan. And IMO they should stop using it outside that context. People shouldn't have to worry about whether they can find a job or apartment based on having poor credit. Turns it into a game that everyone is forced to play instead of a simple metric that financial institutions can use to determine your credit-worthiness. I've never had bad credit, but when I started working office jobs I actually went out and got a credit card I didn't need just so I could use it a few times and pay it off in full at the end of each month. Completely worthless process that I had to involve myself in simply to build my credit up. What a joke.
    - headcanon 10y ago
      Credit score for an apartment seems reasonable, though - you're paying a non-trivial amount of money per month, and apartments want to minimize evictions - they just want to know if you can pay. I've been in a situation where my credit score was bad, but I provided an offer letter for my new job (which indicated that my future situation won't be like my past) and it was fine. Where I can see it failing is for people who live "outside" the system - I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins - he can't find an above-the-board place to live because of his lack of credit score. But with that said, he does have a high risk of not being able to make rent on time, so its difficult to say what the policy should be. As for finding a job, I don't know of any instance where a poor credit score would prevent you from getting a job, other than getting a security clearance, but that also seems reasonable since the government wants to know if you have any blackmail-able "money troubles" that an enemy actor can take advantage of.
      - 10y ago
emodendroket 10y ago
> I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiable scoring system that relies on subjective truth that is determined by a central government. I mean, is it so different from a privately-issued credit score? Transunion isn't a government agency but your credit score can keep you from certain jobs and apartments in addition to loans.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  My credit score in the USA probably doesn't prevent me from getting on an airplane. Jay walking or speaking out against the government online will probably not affect my credit score.
  - Inthenameofmine 10y ago
    Then again, there have been reports pointing to the US gov requesting social media accounts for scanning for visa waiver countries.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Israel already does that for sure. The USA already has the right to reuse entry to non citizens for any reason, or no reason at all, just like every other country. Nothing has changed recently as far as I can tell.
  - mac01021 10y ago
    It's not clear from the article that either of those will happen in the PRC either.
    - powerapple 10y ago
      It happens. When you are owing debts and do not pay, the system will ban you from high cost living, such as 4,5 star hotels, flights, high-speed trains.
hackuser 10y ago
Is Xi's behavior any different than the nationalist, populist, authoritarian trends elsewhere, just applied to a different context? Based on what I've read, the South China Sea policies make sense from a certain point of view, that China is the dominant power in the region who can dictate to others without negotiation, and eventually their neighbors must accept that. (That was China's position until the Opium Wars in the mid-19th century demonstrated that China lacked the military power to dictate to or even resist Western nations.) If that is China's long-term plan, then it's the right approach to dictate the status of the South China Sea and view resistance as short-term and ultimately futile. Negotiating would undermine China's standing. It's a backward point of view: The world and China do much better when we manage conflict via democratic institutions based on rights than by might-makes-right. Who longs for the days of great power wars?
- vtange 10y ago
  IMO it's not Xi that's similar to the current nationalism trend, his China IS the reason it exists. China today is the shining example of how economically successful a country can get by just focusing on the cold hard numbers - no refugees, no human rights, no foreign aid, etc. For years their argument against the West was about why we spend so much time and resources trying to push our ideals to others, when we could take a practical path and be more successful economically
  - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
    > why we spend so much time and resources trying to push our ideals to others. Because that creates political friction, leading to conflict, leading to profitable arms sales. So much of the US's cavalier foreign policy is geared toward propping up the MIC between the periodic big wars it takes on for itself. Eisenhower's warning came true and nobody is doing anything about it.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      Many people genuinely care about human rights and believe they are universal. I know that I do.
jedmeyers 10y ago
> nuclear powered > any port it chooses to refuel in Do we have a lot of ports to refuel nuclear powered aircraft carriers?
- frugalmail 10y ago
  It's to avoid Scurvy
- gaelian 10y ago
  Perhaps "resupply" would have been a better word.
  - brilliantcode 10y ago
    you are correct I did make a mistake there. However, like the other comment suggested, nuclear carriers rarely travel alone without the protection of large naval assets deployed around it. If only AI was running all of the naval air assets on a carrier, no food, self sustaining & maintaining. I'd imagine an increase of frequency in US naval carrier groups patrolling oceans closer as a result of the cost savings of reducing manned staff with AI and robots but that's another topic.
- dingaling 10y ago
  Escort ships need to be refuelled; the plurality of a carrier group is oil-burning.
MichaelMoser123 10y ago
China is leading the way in the use of snooping + big data for social control. The problem is that the rest of the world is steadily catching up. Once upon a time the great firewall of China looked very outlandish, however with the snooping laws in the UK i wonder if that will be the next step: of course we do need a national firewall to protect us from cyber terrorism/state sponsored attacks, any objections? Now lets imagine another real estate crash - of course we will need an aggregated credit rating after that. Not to mention that China has a real problem with bad credit, the technocratic solution is to look at snooping & big data as the fix: a very modern approach. Also i don't think that the technocrats who are ruling China have much in common with the cultural revolution: for example Deng Xiaoping was purged twice during the cultural revolution (i wonder how he survived the first purge).

nabla9 10y ago

Credit scores have existed long time in the West. This just extends the idea. I live in country where positive credit scores are not allowed and I think US type credit score is creepy, but people used to it seem not to care. My fear is that it works all too well, especially in Chinese society.

brilliantcode 10y ago
Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.
- gph 10y ago
  Not to mention it's mostly been recently that people/companies have started using Credit Scores outside the context of applying for a loan. And IMO they should stop using it outside that context. People shouldn't have to worry about whether they can find a job or apartment based on having poor credit. Turns it into a game that everyone is forced to play instead of a simple metric that financial institutions can use to determine your credit-worthiness. I've never had bad credit, but when I started working office jobs I actually went out and got a credit card I didn't need just so I could use it a few times and pay it off in full at the end of each month. Completely worthless process that I had to involve myself in simply to build my credit up. What a joke.
  - headcanon 10y ago
    Credit score for an apartment seems reasonable, though - you're paying a non-trivial amount of money per month, and apartments want to minimize evictions - they just want to know if you can pay. I've been in a situation where my credit score was bad, but I provided an offer letter for my new job (which indicated that my future situation won't be like my past) and it was fine. Where I can see it failing is for people who live "outside" the system - I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins - he can't find an above-the-board place to live because of his lack of credit score. But with that said, he does have a high risk of not being able to make rent on time, so its difficult to say what the policy should be. As for finding a job, I don't know of any instance where a poor credit score would prevent you from getting a job, other than getting a security clearance, but that also seems reasonable since the government wants to know if you have any blackmail-able "money troubles" that an enemy actor can take advantage of.
    - 10y ago

emodendroket 10y ago

> I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiable scoring system that relies on subjective truth that is determined by a central government. I mean, is it so different from a privately-issued credit score? Transunion isn't a government agency but your credit score can keep you from certain jobs and apartments in addition to loans.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
My credit score in the USA probably doesn't prevent me from getting on an airplane. Jay walking or speaking out against the government online will probably not affect my credit score.
- Inthenameofmine 10y ago
  Then again, there have been reports pointing to the US gov requesting social media accounts for scanning for visa waiver countries.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Israel already does that for sure. The USA already has the right to reuse entry to non citizens for any reason, or no reason at all, just like every other country. Nothing has changed recently as far as I can tell.
- mac01021 10y ago
  It's not clear from the article that either of those will happen in the PRC either.
  - powerapple 10y ago
    It happens. When you are owing debts and do not pay, the system will ban you from high cost living, such as 4,5 star hotels, flights, high-speed trains.

hackuser 10y ago

Is Xi's behavior any different than the nationalist, populist, authoritarian trends elsewhere, just applied to a different context? Based on what I've read, the South China Sea policies make sense from a certain point of view, that China is the dominant power in the region who can dictate to others without negotiation, and eventually their neighbors must accept that. (That was China's position until the Opium Wars in the mid-19th century demonstrated that China lacked the military power to dictate to or even resist Western nations.) If that is China's long-term plan, then it's the right approach to dictate the status of the South China Sea and view resistance as short-term and ultimately futile. Negotiating would undermine China's standing. It's a backward point of view: The world and China do much better when we manage conflict via democratic institutions based on rights than by might-makes-right. Who longs for the days of great power wars?

vtange 10y ago
IMO it's not Xi that's similar to the current nationalism trend, his China IS the reason it exists. China today is the shining example of how economically successful a country can get by just focusing on the cold hard numbers - no refugees, no human rights, no foreign aid, etc. For years their argument against the West was about why we spend so much time and resources trying to push our ideals to others, when we could take a practical path and be more successful economically
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  > why we spend so much time and resources trying to push our ideals to others. Because that creates political friction, leading to conflict, leading to profitable arms sales. So much of the US's cavalier foreign policy is geared toward propping up the MIC between the periodic big wars it takes on for itself. Eisenhower's warning came true and nobody is doing anything about it.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    Many people genuinely care about human rights and believe they are universal. I know that I do.

jedmeyers 10y ago

> nuclear powered > any port it chooses to refuel in Do we have a lot of ports to refuel nuclear powered aircraft carriers?

frugalmail 10y ago
It's to avoid Scurvy
gaelian 10y ago
Perhaps "resupply" would have been a better word.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  you are correct I did make a mistake there. However, like the other comment suggested, nuclear carriers rarely travel alone without the protection of large naval assets deployed around it. If only AI was running all of the naval air assets on a carrier, no food, self sustaining & maintaining. I'd imagine an increase of frequency in US naval carrier groups patrolling oceans closer as a result of the cost savings of reducing manned staff with AI and robots but that's another topic.
dingaling 10y ago
Escort ships need to be refuelled; the plurality of a carrier group is oil-burning.

MichaelMoser123 10y ago

China is leading the way in the use of snooping + big data for social control. The problem is that the rest of the world is steadily catching up. Once upon a time the great firewall of China looked very outlandish, however with the snooping laws in the UK i wonder if that will be the next step: of course we do need a national firewall to protect us from cyber terrorism/state sponsored attacks, any objections? Now lets imagine another real estate crash - of course we will need an aggregated credit rating after that. Not to mention that China has a real problem with bad credit, the technocratic solution is to look at snooping & big data as the fix: a very modern approach. Also i don't think that the technocrats who are ruling China have much in common with the cultural revolution: for example Deng Xiaoping was purged twice during the cultural revolution (i wonder how he survived the first purge).