12 ms·

China’s New Tool for Social Control: A Credit Rating for Everything

120 points by dcgudeman 10y ago

mattnewton 10y ago
For people who haven't seen it, I highly recommend the black mirror episode "Nosedive" for an exploration of what this could do to a society even in the absence of government control.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- shostack 10y ago
  Haven't seen "Nosedive" yet but just saw White Christmas. While we don't have the wetware enhancements for that yet, it did give a chilling look at how society would react if you had an AR overlay that somehow classified people as "undesirable." This was really highlighted at the end when he walks into the busy market and shows up as red to people. While I have reservations about governments using a system like this as it is...you get into some fascinating and terrifying scenarios when you enable public access to this sort of thing. Imagine being added to some list because of an error, and then having the entire public viewing you and just assuming you are a bad person because you are on that list without giving you the chance to do anything about it or perhaps even know they are aware of that. As a more tangible example, imagine if something like the infamous Lulu app (that lets women rate and apply tags to men they've dated and only lets other women see the ratings...kind of like an exclusive Yelp for men) was combined with ubiquitous AR. Now imagine you had a falling out with an ex and you're trying to start dating again. You now have to deal with all of the (potentially quite false) assumptions someone you might be interested in is making about you based on how your ex rated you in addition to whatever other assumptions they would normally make without it. And odds are you'd never even know they made their decision before you even saw them because they previously scanned the room with a rating filter like Amazon and only care about people above their threshold. We worry now about the impact of filter bubbles with things like Facebook. Now think about having them applied to people you interact with in your day-to-day.
  - civilian 10y ago
    The obvious answer is to upgrade to Yelp Premium so that you can choose which reviews appear first on your store page, and so you can respond to reviews. :-3
  - nibs 10y ago
    This already exists. My parents own a bar and were pitched a technology that would instantly screen problem patrons from a cloud-based data store. Further it can "remember" problem patrons if you flag them on your internal cameras and then use that to prevent them from entering in the future. It currently has many customers in the US.
    - shostack 10y ago
      Whats this called? Are there any checks and balances against it? Like, would someone ever know they were in this system or have recourse to see their data and challenge it? I could totally picture insurance companies being all over something like this, and it is really scary to think about the lack of transparency and how you'll never know if you are in one of those databases.
      - nibs 10y ago
        PatronScan[1], no, no. https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/ https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/
        Diederich 10y ago
        Holy crap that's creepy as hell. From a technology perspective, there might be some clever stuff there, but probably not. It's just a sign of things to come I think.
        deathanatos 10y ago
        > The age of the patron is displayed for every scan, and the ID scanner operator can be alerted if the patron exceeds the minimum or maximum age set by management. The maximum age. > If patrons break the rules, then ban them from every venue using PatronScan in North America. > The Banned Patrons List is shared with every other venue using PatronScan > PatronScan ID scanners give you live stats about […], the gender distribution, and the average age [of patrons]. Wow. Just … wow.
- teilo 10y ago
  This is the first thing I thought of.
- greggman 10y ago
  I don't personally consider this a spoiler but others might so consider yourself informed. Nosedive is about a future where your social media rating affects your real life. As an example you might not be able to enter a popular restaurant if your social media score is too low because it makes the store look bad to have low score customers. Discounts and other perks are offered to people with high scores. Say something some disagrees with and get downvoted which since your score affects your life you don't dare say something that might upset someone else. It's a very scary episode in that is certainly seems like one possible future. We already have some small part of that future today with downvoted on places like HN and Reddit that while meant to promote civility have the unintended consequence discouraging decent. It's easy to imagine social media scores affecting more real world things.
- tnwhitwell 10y ago
  I came here to say exactly that - it almost feels like that episode was prompted by this story.
htaunay 10y ago
When Extra Credits "Propaganda Games" video came out about a year ago[1], I was relived when I read that "Sesame Credit" was a complete fabrication, and even questioned EC for posting such a video without source checking. Apparently is wasn't completely fabricated after all. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI
- krick 10y ago
  I several times heard accusations of it being fake, but never once saw any credible source, proving it's fake. So I still don't know where these accusation came from.
  - devy 10y ago
    Your logic is backwards. Neither Extra Credit or you cited any credible sources to prove the terrible outcomes of such system claimed in that YouTube video is accurate or true. Note that I don't totally disagree with Extra Credit in that such credit rating system may potentially be abused by government. However, from this Chinese version of wikipedia page of Sesame Credit[1], it specifically read as those credit rating agencies are independent 3rd party entities. Also in the use cases, it mentions online shopping transactions and dating site records, car rentals but nowhere does it mention social networking sites activities(I mean people don't talk about radical political views in their dating site profiles, do they?) like what Extra Credit claim Sesame Credits will source data from. [1]: http://baike.baidu.com/view/12108011.htm http://baike.baidu.com/view/12108011.htm
- shaobo 10y ago
  It is not fabricated, it just wasn't accurately reported. Every article I read described it as a government system already implemented and measuring every aspect of your life, when it was actually a scheme created by a private company within their ecosystem and most people used it for showing off. The government proposed system is still in pilot stage. https://www.techinasia.com/china-citizen-scores-credit-system-orwellian https://www.techinasia.com/china-citizen-scores-credit-syste...
jlisam13 10y ago
How different is this from our current credit system through FICO scores?
- tn13 10y ago
  FICO is by private companies to measure your financial discipline if you want to borrow from them. You can continue to exist without opting in into FICO. China's score is by government and it determines your mere existence. May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Also it is not about finances but about your opinions.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    > China's score is by government and it determines your mere existence. May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Is this just speculation? Maybe you end up in jail?
    - tn13 10y ago
      That is why the word "maybe". Of course given the way China works miffing the government actually means an existential threat. Unlike American who take for granted things like trial by jury, protection from cruel punishment, unauthorized searches etc. Chinese people dont have any such rights. By default they live because the government lets them. We would never know he full extent of such score keeping.
  - vkou 10y ago
    > You can continue to exist without opting in into FICO. Only in theory. For one thing, you don't opt into FICO - the company I transact with chooses to share my information with FICO, without giving me any choice on the matter. The only way you can opt out of FICO is if you never use the financial system, not have a job, or a place to live. Unless you're an animal, or an undiscovered cave hermit, good luck. > May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Citation needed.
    - 10y ago
brilliantcode 10y ago
I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiable scoring system that relies on subjective truth that is determined by a central government. Then again this is China, people have no way of speaking out against their government without risking their lives, and the government has no obligation other than maintaining their power over the population. I almost feel as if Xi is losing his grip on the population by introducing drastic internal policies like this that only names goals that appear to benefit the greater good but almost certainly driving his own agenda, even if it earns the ire of his surrounding peers. A foreign policy analysis of Xi's external facing policies are almost certainly always to further his internal grip which explains the bizarre & seemingly counter-productive positions he took against North Korea and South China Sea, that further drove neighbouring countries to America's arms....but with strange turn of events it seems that they will be undone from Trump's camp, much to the delight of Putin & Xi. Time will tell, but it's doubtful we will have anything but a government mouthpiece statician announcing the success of such policies. It's tough to know the real truth in societies where it is actively suppressed and manipulated by a single central entity. It's also difficult to say how long such systems will last without continuously taking on more risky and expensive internal policies that lags behind changing technology that disseminates information. but what's that saying? The person wielding the biggest stick in the room is the source of truth implying force is always the lowest common denominator in human societies. Afterall, America wouldn't be where it is today without its 14 nuclear powered floating airports with the most advanced weapon technologies that casts a shadow on any port it chooses to refuel in.
- nabla9 10y ago
  Credit scores have existed long time in the West. This just extends the idea. I live in country where positive credit scores are not allowed and I think US type credit score is creepy, but people used to it seem not to care. My fear is that it works all too well, especially in Chinese society.
  - brilliantcode 10y ago
    Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.
pavlov 10y ago
The Chinese leaders love talking about "harmony" as a social goal. In that spirit, these could be called "Harmony Points", or simply HP. You gained 17 HP yesterday. You've just leveled up! Report to your neighborhood party representative for your complimentary face massage kit. [Share on Weibo] [Share on WeChat]
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  HP sounds better than the older Sesame points. Though it conflicts with hit points.
Animats 10y ago
China has had similar systems for decades. The dang’an record books on employee behavior were kept by big state employers. But that system didn't hold up well as more private employers appeared. Now it's being brought up to date. The US has something like this for travel, where the lowest tier is being on the "do not fly" list, and having a Global Entry card, which requires "extreme vetting", moves you to a higher tier where you can bypass some security lines.
- sithadmin 10y ago
  Global Entry doesn't entitle you to 'skipping' any security lines. It accelerates the customs process, but one still ends up handing one's documents over to customs officers for a (usually) quick review, just as everyone else does. The biggest perk for Global Entry (besides getting a known traveler number for Pre-Check eligibility) is that the process of filling out the customs paperwork is faster and more automated, and that the ratio of travelers : customs officers is lower.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Getting to use a line with a lower ratio of travelers to customs officers is exactly what someone means when they talk about skipping a line. If they meant skipping the customs checks they probably would have said checks rather than line.
- mattnewton 10y ago
  I think what people have to watch closely is the collation of these different lists. The American do-not-fly list already is full of mistakes[0][1][2] and institutionalized prejudice[3][4], and so if that score affected more it would damage even more. [0] http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-s... [1] http://theresurgent.com/these-people-mistakenly-ending-up-on-the-no-fly-list-should-they-not-have-their-second-amendment-rights/ http://theresurgent.com/these-people-mistakenly-ending-up-on... [2] https://theintercept.com/2016/04/06/class-action-suit-targets-system-that-added-a-baby-to-terrorist-watchlist/ https://theintercept.com/2016/04/06/class-action-suit-target... [3] https://ccrjustice.org/home/get-involved/tools-resources/fact-sheets-and-faqs/faqs-about-fbi-informant-program-and-no-fly# https://ccrjustice.org/home/get-involved/tools-resources/fac... [4] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/us-stops-british-muslim-family-flight-disneyland-david-cameron https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/us-stops-bri...
nevster 10y ago
This puts me in mind of Whuffie
Havoc 10y ago
This strikes me as thoroughly oppressive. Its a bit like the American credit system in that it can kick people in the balls...except its more arbitrary, outside of the persons control and very vulnerable to abuse.
FrancoDiaz 10y ago
Like clockwork for every story just like this... China has had similar systems for decades .... The US has something like this for travel and How different is this from our current credit system through FICO scores? Sorry, that technique doesn't work. Come up with something new.
chunhuoxidada1 10y ago
Welcome to 1984!
- imagetcha 10y ago
  Aldus Huxley portrayed something that scares me to death of actually happening... yet every day I see us coming closer and closer to its fruition. Strong teller...or fortune teller? Lol that is the question.
eiji 10y ago
This could show or open up some possible alternatives to the current monetary system. You have to see money as providing the same function today in our society. Not your credit score and whatnot. Those are derived from it. Money is what forces humans today into a quantifiable scoring system. On one side is doom but it is worth thinking about that the other side could provide. "Today you have been credited 400 points for helping 100 elderly over the street, driving 50 disabled people to the doctor and returning 20 lbs of unused food". Then you don't have a monetary system pricing your actions, but you have central control over what gets priced in what way. Sounds familiar, I know. But just because none of us can imagine anything but money to fulfill this allocation function, does not mean that other thinkers are hard at work. Surely this is far away from western individualism, but not every country has bought into that. China is surely investigating it's options long term to opt out of various constraints imposed upon by global power systems, one of which is the global banking and monetary system.
- ldp01 10y ago
  How would your example differ from a government simply putting a price on various tasks (helping elderly, etc) and paying with regular money? I'm not saying it's a bad idea (I actually like it!), but conceptually it seems no different to the current monetary system, just with governments taking a more inventive approach to paying for public services.
jwtadvice 10y ago
Coverage of China's Credit and Scoring System is described by those covering it, like CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/opinions/china-social-credit-score-creemers/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/opinions/china-social-credit-s...), as: "In that sense, perhaps the most shocking element of the story is not the Chinese government’s agenda, but how similar it is to the path technology is taking elsewhere." This is because, for example, surveillance of social media posts have been an input to credit scores in countries like the United States for some time. (https://www.thenation.com/article/how-companies-turn-your-facebook-activity-credit-score/ https://www.thenation.com/article/how-companies-turn-your-fa...) In the United States, further, social media post and social relationship information is used across America to calculate real time police "threat scores", predictive crime measurements that are applied to prioritize law enforcement and surveillance efforts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/the-new-way-police-are-surveilling-you-calculating-your-threat-score/2016/01/10/e42bccac-8e15-11e5-baf4-bdf37355da0c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/the-new-w... China unfortunately is not unique in this landscape of social gamification - the kind espoused by the Bush and Obama Administrations - perhaps most perfectly represented by the legal justifications and arguments by Washington insiders in the intellectual orbit of Cass Sunstein.
- slededit 10y ago
  That article seems to strongly imply that social media is a factor in your credit score but never actually proves it. After meandering on a story about targeted marketing via social media we get back to a history of credit scores yet no connection is ever made. At best its thesis seems to be "these things are similar!" yet the headline and the intro is very misleading. Guilt by association is not a fair argument. FICO using social media as a factor in its score would be extremely interesting were it true.
analog31 10y ago
Don't we already have this? A prospective employer can look up everything about you, and form a composite score on their own if they want to. China is late to the game.
emblem21 10y ago
We will materialize our filter bubbles and you will call it equality.
partycoder 10y ago
Doesn't sound bad, but when one of the factors used to calculate your credit rating is your degree political alignment, it is bad. That combined with mass surveillance, censorship, and the fact that the People's Liberation Army serves the communist party and not the Chinese people gives them total control over the population.
type0 10y ago
Now that Facebook is coming to China, maybe they will integrate it in their chinese version. Then other countries soon also could be granted to receive such a feature.
thewhitetulip 10y ago
This is very dangerous. Things like this make me glad that I live in a democracy, although people in power can some times get away by doing stuff, they ultimately have to agree to the popular demands (this is also why certain dictators are overthrown by popular demand by a very big uprising, but it then disrupts the working of the country for a long time, works quicker in democracies since leaders have to listen to get elected next time)
omarforgotpwd 10y ago
This was an episode in the latest season of black mirror

120 points by dcgudeman 10y ago

For people who haven't seen it, I highly recommend the black mirror episode "Nosedive" for an exploration of what this could do to a society even in the absence of government control.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
shostack 10y ago
Haven't seen "Nosedive" yet but just saw White Christmas. While we don't have the wetware enhancements for that yet, it did give a chilling look at how society would react if you had an AR overlay that somehow classified people as "undesirable." This was really highlighted at the end when he walks into the busy market and shows up as red to people. While I have reservations about governments using a system like this as it is...you get into some fascinating and terrifying scenarios when you enable public access to this sort of thing. Imagine being added to some list because of an error, and then having the entire public viewing you and just assuming you are a bad person because you are on that list without giving you the chance to do anything about it or perhaps even know they are aware of that. As a more tangible example, imagine if something like the infamous Lulu app (that lets women rate and apply tags to men they've dated and only lets other women see the ratings...kind of like an exclusive Yelp for men) was combined with ubiquitous AR. Now imagine you had a falling out with an ex and you're trying to start dating again. You now have to deal with all of the (potentially quite false) assumptions someone you might be interested in is making about you based on how your ex rated you in addition to whatever other assumptions they would normally make without it. And odds are you'd never even know they made their decision before you even saw them because they previously scanned the room with a rating filter like Amazon and only care about people above their threshold. We worry now about the impact of filter bubbles with things like Facebook. Now think about having them applied to people you interact with in your day-to-day.
- civilian 10y ago
  The obvious answer is to upgrade to Yelp Premium so that you can choose which reviews appear first on your store page, and so you can respond to reviews. :-3
- nibs 10y ago
  This already exists. My parents own a bar and were pitched a technology that would instantly screen problem patrons from a cloud-based data store. Further it can "remember" problem patrons if you flag them on your internal cameras and then use that to prevent them from entering in the future. It currently has many customers in the US.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Whats this called? Are there any checks and balances against it? Like, would someone ever know they were in this system or have recourse to see their data and challenge it? I could totally picture insurance companies being all over something like this, and it is really scary to think about the lack of transparency and how you'll never know if you are in one of those databases.
    - nibs 10y ago
      PatronScan[1], no, no. https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/ https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/
      - Diederich 10y ago
        Holy crap that's creepy as hell. From a technology perspective, there might be some clever stuff there, but probably not. It's just a sign of things to come I think.
      - deathanatos 10y ago
        > The age of the patron is displayed for every scan, and the ID scanner operator can be alerted if the patron exceeds the minimum or maximum age set by management. The maximum age. > If patrons break the rules, then ban them from every venue using PatronScan in North America. > The Banned Patrons List is shared with every other venue using PatronScan > PatronScan ID scanners give you live stats about […], the gender distribution, and the average age [of patrons]. Wow. Just … wow.
teilo 10y ago
This is the first thing I thought of.
greggman 10y ago
I don't personally consider this a spoiler but others might so consider yourself informed. Nosedive is about a future where your social media rating affects your real life. As an example you might not be able to enter a popular restaurant if your social media score is too low because it makes the store look bad to have low score customers. Discounts and other perks are offered to people with high scores. Say something some disagrees with and get downvoted which since your score affects your life you don't dare say something that might upset someone else. It's a very scary episode in that is certainly seems like one possible future. We already have some small part of that future today with downvoted on places like HN and Reddit that while meant to promote civility have the unintended consequence discouraging decent. It's easy to imagine social media scores affecting more real world things.
tnwhitwell 10y ago
I came here to say exactly that - it almost feels like that episode was prompted by this story.

htaunay 10y ago

When Extra Credits "Propaganda Games" video came out about a year ago[1], I was relived when I read that "Sesame Credit" was a complete fabrication, and even questioned EC for posting such a video without source checking. Apparently is wasn't completely fabricated after all. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

krick 10y ago
I several times heard accusations of it being fake, but never once saw any credible source, proving it's fake. So I still don't know where these accusation came from.
- devy 10y ago
  Your logic is backwards. Neither Extra Credit or you cited any credible sources to prove the terrible outcomes of such system claimed in that YouTube video is accurate or true. Note that I don't totally disagree with Extra Credit in that such credit rating system may potentially be abused by government. However, from this Chinese version of wikipedia page of Sesame Credit[1], it specifically read as those credit rating agencies are independent 3rd party entities. Also in the use cases, it mentions online shopping transactions and dating site records, car rentals but nowhere does it mention social networking sites activities(I mean people don't talk about radical political views in their dating site profiles, do they?) like what Extra Credit claim Sesame Credits will source data from. [1]: http://baike.baidu.com/view/12108011.htm http://baike.baidu.com/view/12108011.htm
shaobo 10y ago
It is not fabricated, it just wasn't accurately reported. Every article I read described it as a government system already implemented and measuring every aspect of your life, when it was actually a scheme created by a private company within their ecosystem and most people used it for showing off. The government proposed system is still in pilot stage. https://www.techinasia.com/china-citizen-scores-credit-system-orwellian https://www.techinasia.com/china-citizen-scores-credit-syste...

jlisam13 10y ago

How different is this from our current credit system through FICO scores?

tn13 10y ago
FICO is by private companies to measure your financial discipline if you want to borrow from them. You can continue to exist without opting in into FICO. China's score is by government and it determines your mere existence. May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Also it is not about finances but about your opinions.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  > China's score is by government and it determines your mere existence. May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Is this just speculation? Maybe you end up in jail?
  - tn13 10y ago
    That is why the word "maybe". Of course given the way China works miffing the government actually means an existential threat. Unlike American who take for granted things like trial by jury, protection from cruel punishment, unauthorized searches etc. Chinese people dont have any such rights. By default they live because the government lets them. We would never know he full extent of such score keeping.
- vkou 10y ago
  > You can continue to exist without opting in into FICO. Only in theory. For one thing, you don't opt into FICO - the company I transact with chooses to share my information with FICO, without giving me any choice on the matter. The only way you can opt out of FICO is if you never use the financial system, not have a job, or a place to live. Unless you're an animal, or an undiscovered cave hermit, good luck. > May be you end up in jail if the score goes below something. Citation needed.
  - 10y ago

brilliantcode 10y ago

I'm not sure about this. It's going to be so disastrous, reminiscent of Cultural Revolution in some spiritual form, to try to force human nature into quantifiable scoring system that relies on subjective truth that is determined by a central government. Then again this is China, people have no way of speaking out against their government without risking their lives, and the government has no obligation other than maintaining their power over the population. I almost feel as if Xi is losing his grip on the population by introducing drastic internal policies like this that only names goals that appear to benefit the greater good but almost certainly driving his own agenda, even if it earns the ire of his surrounding peers. A foreign policy analysis of Xi's external facing policies are almost certainly always to further his internal grip which explains the bizarre & seemingly counter-productive positions he took against North Korea and South China Sea, that further drove neighbouring countries to America's arms....but with strange turn of events it seems that they will be undone from Trump's camp, much to the delight of Putin & Xi. Time will tell, but it's doubtful we will have anything but a government mouthpiece statician announcing the success of such policies. It's tough to know the real truth in societies where it is actively suppressed and manipulated by a single central entity. It's also difficult to say how long such systems will last without continuously taking on more risky and expensive internal policies that lags behind changing technology that disseminates information. but what's that saying? The person wielding the biggest stick in the room is the source of truth implying force is always the lowest common denominator in human societies. Afterall, America wouldn't be where it is today without its 14 nuclear powered floating airports with the most advanced weapon technologies that casts a shadow on any port it chooses to refuel in.

nabla9 10y ago
Credit scores have existed long time in the West. This just extends the idea. I live in country where positive credit scores are not allowed and I think US type credit score is creepy, but people used to it seem not to care. My fear is that it works all too well, especially in Chinese society.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.

pavlov 10y ago

The Chinese leaders love talking about "harmony" as a social goal. In that spirit, these could be called "Harmony Points", or simply HP. You gained 17 HP yesterday. You've just leveled up! Report to your neighborhood party representative for your complimentary face massage kit. [Share on Weibo] [Share on WeChat]

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
HP sounds better than the older Sesame points. Though it conflicts with hit points.

Animats 10y ago

China has had similar systems for decades. The dang’an record books on employee behavior were kept by big state employers. But that system didn't hold up well as more private employers appeared. Now it's being brought up to date. The US has something like this for travel, where the lowest tier is being on the "do not fly" list, and having a Global Entry card, which requires "extreme vetting", moves you to a higher tier where you can bypass some security lines.

sithadmin 10y ago
Global Entry doesn't entitle you to 'skipping' any security lines. It accelerates the customs process, but one still ends up handing one's documents over to customs officers for a (usually) quick review, just as everyone else does. The biggest perk for Global Entry (besides getting a known traveler number for Pre-Check eligibility) is that the process of filling out the customs paperwork is faster and more automated, and that the ratio of travelers : customs officers is lower.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Getting to use a line with a lower ratio of travelers to customs officers is exactly what someone means when they talk about skipping a line. If they meant skipping the customs checks they probably would have said checks rather than line.
mattnewton 10y ago
I think what people have to watch closely is the collation of these different lists. The American do-not-fly list already is full of mistakes[0][1][2] and institutionalized prejudice[3][4], and so if that score affected more it would damage even more. [0] http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-s... [1] http://theresurgent.com/these-people-mistakenly-ending-up-on-the-no-fly-list-should-they-not-have-their-second-amendment-rights/ http://theresurgent.com/these-people-mistakenly-ending-up-on... [2] https://theintercept.com/2016/04/06/class-action-suit-targets-system-that-added-a-baby-to-terrorist-watchlist/ https://theintercept.com/2016/04/06/class-action-suit-target... [3] https://ccrjustice.org/home/get-involved/tools-resources/fact-sheets-and-faqs/faqs-about-fbi-informant-program-and-no-fly# https://ccrjustice.org/home/get-involved/tools-resources/fac... [4] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/us-stops-british-muslim-family-flight-disneyland-david-cameron https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/us-stops-bri...

nevster 10y ago

This puts me in mind of Whuffie

Havoc 10y ago

This strikes me as thoroughly oppressive. Its a bit like the American credit system in that it can kick people in the balls...except its more arbitrary, outside of the persons control and very vulnerable to abuse.

FrancoDiaz 10y ago

Like clockwork for every story just like this... China has had similar systems for decades .... The US has something like this for travel and How different is this from our current credit system through FICO scores? Sorry, that technique doesn't work. Come up with something new.

chunhuoxidada1 10y ago

Welcome to 1984!

imagetcha 10y ago
Aldus Huxley portrayed something that scares me to death of actually happening... yet every day I see us coming closer and closer to its fruition. Strong teller...or fortune teller? Lol that is the question.

eiji 10y ago

This could show or open up some possible alternatives to the current monetary system. You have to see money as providing the same function today in our society. Not your credit score and whatnot. Those are derived from it. Money is what forces humans today into a quantifiable scoring system. On one side is doom but it is worth thinking about that the other side could provide. "Today you have been credited 400 points for helping 100 elderly over the street, driving 50 disabled people to the doctor and returning 20 lbs of unused food". Then you don't have a monetary system pricing your actions, but you have central control over what gets priced in what way. Sounds familiar, I know. But just because none of us can imagine anything but money to fulfill this allocation function, does not mean that other thinkers are hard at work. Surely this is far away from western individualism, but not every country has bought into that. China is surely investigating it's options long term to opt out of various constraints imposed upon by global power systems, one of which is the global banking and monetary system.

ldp01 10y ago
How would your example differ from a government simply putting a price on various tasks (helping elderly, etc) and paying with regular money? I'm not saying it's a bad idea (I actually like it!), but conceptually it seems no different to the current monetary system, just with governments taking a more inventive approach to paying for public services.

jwtadvice 10y ago

Coverage of China's Credit and Scoring System is described by those covering it, like CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/opinions/china-social-credit-score-creemers/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/opinions/china-social-credit-s...), as: "In that sense, perhaps the most shocking element of the story is not the Chinese government’s agenda, but how similar it is to the path technology is taking elsewhere." This is because, for example, surveillance of social media posts have been an input to credit scores in countries like the United States for some time. (https://www.thenation.com/article/how-companies-turn-your-facebook-activity-credit-score/ https://www.thenation.com/article/how-companies-turn-your-fa...) In the United States, further, social media post and social relationship information is used across America to calculate real time police "threat scores", predictive crime measurements that are applied to prioritize law enforcement and surveillance efforts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/the-new-way-police-are-surveilling-you-calculating-your-threat-score/2016/01/10/e42bccac-8e15-11e5-baf4-bdf37355da0c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/the-new-w... China unfortunately is not unique in this landscape of social gamification - the kind espoused by the Bush and Obama Administrations - perhaps most perfectly represented by the legal justifications and arguments by Washington insiders in the intellectual orbit of Cass Sunstein.

slededit 10y ago
That article seems to strongly imply that social media is a factor in your credit score but never actually proves it. After meandering on a story about targeted marketing via social media we get back to a history of credit scores yet no connection is ever made. At best its thesis seems to be "these things are similar!" yet the headline and the intro is very misleading. Guilt by association is not a fair argument. FICO using social media as a factor in its score would be extremely interesting were it true.

analog31 10y ago

Don't we already have this? A prospective employer can look up everything about you, and form a composite score on their own if they want to. China is late to the game.

emblem21 10y ago

We will materialize our filter bubbles and you will call it equality.

partycoder 10y ago

Doesn't sound bad, but when one of the factors used to calculate your credit rating is your degree political alignment, it is bad. That combined with mass surveillance, censorship, and the fact that the People's Liberation Army serves the communist party and not the Chinese people gives them total control over the population.

type0 10y ago

Now that Facebook is coming to China, maybe they will integrate it in their chinese version. Then other countries soon also could be granted to receive such a feature.

thewhitetulip 10y ago

This is very dangerous. Things like this make me glad that I live in a democracy, although people in power can some times get away by doing stuff, they ultimately have to agree to the popular demands (this is also why certain dictators are overthrown by popular demand by a very big uprising, but it then disrupts the working of the country for a long time, works quicker in democracies since leaders have to listen to get elected next time)

omarforgotpwd 10y ago

This was an episode in the latest season of black mirror