5 ms·

They should definitely be labeled clearly because they present real danger. However, there are far stronger magnets that pose an equal or worse danger that are

by dpark 10y ago

They should definitely be labeled clearly because they present real danger. However, there are far stronger magnets that pose an equal or worse danger that are for sale home stores, craft stores, and grocery stores across the country. There's nothing about these little magnets that make them worse than button magnets except for negligent adults.

DanBC 10y ago
> There's nothing about these little magnets that make them worse than button magnets except for negligent adults. When you buy an item marketed and sold as a toy you have a reasonable expectation that it's not going to cause the death of your child.
- dpark 10y ago
  You mean like silly putty or the thousands of other toys that present choking hazards to children? All toys are not appropriate for all children. I wouldn't give my daughter magnets to play with. I also wouldn't give her silly putty or dice or a chemistry set. She's too young. Eventually she can have all these things and a gallon of bleach under her bathroom sink. But not for quite a while.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    But eating small amounts of silly putty isn't going to kill me, and there's no reason to eat silly putty, and it's quite unpleasant tasting. These magnet companies knew that teenagers were using the magnets for fake piercing jewellery. They knew there was a risk that young people were eating the jewellery, and they resisted putting warnings on the packs and resisted moving the product off toy shelves.
    - dpark 10y ago
      > But eating small amounts of silly putty isn't going to kill me But choking on a wad of silly putty definitely can. Hence the fact that it's labeled as a choking hazard and not for young children. I don't think the bar for "should be banned" is "small amounts are dangerous". A "small amount" of Scrabble can kill your kid, despite there being "no reason" to eat Scrabble tiles, but we don't ban it. Toy stores sell balloons and jacks and dice and all kinds of things that pose real dangers to kids. > These magnet companies knew that teenagers were using the magnets for fake piercing jewellery. Shrug? Car manufacturers know teens are racing cars and snowboard manufacturers know teens are riding down black diamonds with little skill and no helmets. Teens do stupid things and we don't ban entire categories of product to attempt to protect them from minor dangers. > * they resisted putting warnings on the packs and resisted moving the product off toy shelves.* Did they actually resist labeling them or just resist the ban? If they resisted labeling, that's pointless and dumb and it's perfectly reasonable that they be required to label clearly and appropriately.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      They did not resist putting warnings on the packs. At this point you're just making things up to perpetuate a losing argument. Here's a sample of the sort of warnings they came with: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dLyA8DED--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/cgrnog92silsuigpidbp.png https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dLyA8DE... Did quite a lot of people ignore the warnings? Yes? Is that the manufacturer's fault? No, it's the fault of the people who saw a warning and didn't bother to read it or take it seriously. No doubt they are some very unhappy people because their kids ended up in hospital, but their opinions are worthless because they had the safety information and put their children at risk because they chose to ignore it. That's not the manufacturers' fault.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Its about risk/reward. The fun to be had is perhaps small compared to the large risk (hospitalization). Most of us trust that toys for kids will be essentially harmless. We choose to live in a trusting society, yes. That doesn't make us guilty of anything. This is such a subtle risk, its arguable that a printed warning on a paper container is insufficient. What happens when the packaging is discarded? Another kid enters the house? Your kid gives the toy away?
        anigbrowl 10y ago
        Most of us trust that toys for kids will be essentially harmless. Speak for yourself - you don't speak for everyone else and I see no reason to use your standard as the default. I have no such trust because I have always looked at safety warnings and taken them at face value. I always loved playing with Lego, but I was also aware that Lego bricks have sharp edges and are a choking hazard for small children. I knew this when I was a kid too. Finally, I see no reason for you to lump these magnets in with all other 'toys for kids'. The buckyball magnets came with a very clear warning that they were for people 13 and over, and that you could get injured or even die by swallowing the magnets. When an item comes with a clear and unambiguous written warning of specific dangers and your idea of 'living in a trusting society' is to ignore such explicit warnings then yes it does make you guilty of something - negligence. It's simply not fair to demand that other people accept liability for your actions when you are literally refusing to read clearly written warnings This is such a subtle risk, its arguable that a printed warning on a paper container is insufficient. What happens when the packaging is discarded? Another kid enters the house? Your kid gives the toy away? It's not subtle at all, it's easy to observe the risk from playing with the magnets for a couple of minutes and seeing how powerful they are. When the physical forces involved are self-evident then at some point you have take responsibility for paying attention to what your own senses are telling you. You're literally complaining that this is somehow too hard to think about it for ordinary people, and if you think that then you should be up in arms about the accessibility of gas stations, things make out of glass, and all sorts of other 'subtle' hazards that people navigate on a daily basis. What happens when the packaging is discarded? The person doing the discarding takes responsibility for leaving the magnets in a safe place where they can not be got at by unsupervised children. I have clusters of neodymium magnets in several places around my house, out of the packaging. I know where they are, I know that I may need to move them if my friends who have kids come to visit (just like I need to move some other things I don't want them getting into), and I know that if I show them off or anyone expresses an interest in them that I have an obligation to point out that they are powerful and dangerous. And just in case, my home insurance policy covers me against financial liability if someone does suffer an injury while visiting my home. Stop telling me it's a 'subtle risk.' That's complete BS when I can see and feel for myself that the things are really powerful. A subtle risk would be a lump of attractive-looking material whose radioactive nature isn't apparent without some kind of special measuring apparatus. I cannot understand why you are arguing that people should literally disregard the evidence of their senses rather than accept even a modicum of legal liability.
- mibbiting 10y ago
  If your child (Lets assume over the age of 2 or 3), is still eating random non-food items, you have some real parenting problems.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Older children were using them as fake piercings: http://www.poison.org/articles/2012-oct/toy-magnets-are-dangerous-for-children http://www.poison.org/articles/2012-oct/toy-magnets-are-dang... > Avoid the use of magnetic beads as fake body piercings.
    - mibbiting 10y ago
      Sure. And they were let down massively by their parents.
      - matt4077 10y ago
        Therefore... they should die?
        mibbiting 10y ago
        That's an idiotic conclusion. How about teenagers who play with fireworks and die? Do we need to ban fireworks? Or do we just need parents to educate their children that fireworks are dangerous.
        anigbrowl 10y ago
        No; but if they do, it's the parents who should be held liable for disregarding important safety information. This whole debate is symptomatic of some bigger cultural problem. It reminds me of when some kid shoots themselves with a gun and then the community is all 'too bad, so sad' and no charges are brought against the parent because they've been through the 'tragedy' of losing a child. Well that's tragic for them but it was fatal for the child, and dead children are not getting any justice when their negligent parents are let off the hook for causing the death of another person. I mean, if I as an adult was hanging out with you and then I died because you handed me something that looked like a can of coke but was actually a hand grenade, then you'd be charged with manslaughter for failing to apprise me of the risk. But when small children get hold of guns and kill themselves (or worse, kill another kid) that's frequently just treated as 'the cost of our 2nd amendment freedom' or some bullshit. there are a lot of cases where parents get off with no legal penalty because the death of a child is so painful, even though they're clearly responsible. That does not make it OK to push the liability onto some third party who wasn't present and who supplied a a dangerous product with a detailed warning about the risks involved in it suse which people chose to ignore.
tw04 10y ago
Sure there are, many of them look like candy (for instance, in reference to zenmagnets, the neoballs). I've not seen magnets sold in grocery stores or home stores that share that property. Additionally, the size and shape make them quite easy for a child to swallow. What magnet have you seen in a grocery store or Home Depot that is the size and shape of a small gumball? Link?
- dpark 10y ago
  Have you spent much time with small children? They'll happily stick buttons (and button magnets) in their mouths if they find them on the floor. Kids who don't even know what candy is will still put small objects into their mouths because it's what they do. Buttons are about as easy to swallow as small balls. We literally package medicine in button shape because it's easy to swallow. I vividly remember kids in late elementary school playing with pencil grips and cola can tabs in their mouths. I was always terrified someone was going to choke to death on one. (They didn't.) These were kids old enough to know that they weren't candy and they still put them in their mouths because kids are just kind of dumb. There are also stories of teens using ball magnets for tongue "piercings" and accidentally swallowing them. Magnets absolutely don't have to look like candy to be dangerous. Most ball magnets are also not colorful. Even if the colorful ones were somehow especially dangerous, that wouldn't make all ball magnets especially dangerous.
smokey_the_bear 10y ago
Grandpa bought some similar powerful magnets in the Grand Canyon gift shop and gave them to my two year old when I wasn't looking. So sure, he and I were both being negligent. But it also seems like a dangerous set up.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  There's no but here. Grandpa was negligent and put a small child's safety at risk because he ignored the risk warnings on the product in favor of an assumption that 'anything sold in a gift shop must be safe.' I don't want to be rude about your parent but the liability is squarely on him (and you, insofar as you left your child in his risk-indifferent custody). I don't mean to attack you personally in any way, but if you have an awareness that such things as small powerful magnets exist and can imagine what the risks would be, how is it not your job as a parent to be on the lookout for that? You manage to be on the lookout for all sorts of other risks that exist in your household - drowning, fire, chemicals, sharp objects, and so on. I do not believe that adding an awareness of magnets (which are generally pretty easy to identify because of their magnetic properties causing them to stick to metallic surfaces or each other) causes some unacceptably large burden. You've known what magnets are since you were a small child. You are almost certainly easily able to distinguish between a bunch of magnetic balls and a bunch of non-magnetic ball bearings by simply looking at them. How is it not your responsibility to use that knowledge?
  - smokey_the_bear 10y ago
    There was not a warning on the packaging. I am glad you are a perfect parent, it is very lucky for you and your children. Congratulations!
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      I find that hard to believe without a photograph, and even if it were true the intense nature of the magnetic force is self-evident. Common sense mitigates against giving any small non-food objects to a 2-year old. I never claimed to be a perfect parent (nice attempt at misdirection there). But I don't try to hold other people responsible for the decisions I make. When people with kids visit me or leave their kids in my care then their safety is my primary responsibility and I'm willing to accept that.

by dpark 10y ago

DanBC 10y ago

> There's nothing about these little magnets that make them worse than button magnets except for negligent adults. When you buy an item marketed and sold as a toy you have a reasonable expectation that it's not going to cause the death of your child.

dpark 10y ago
You mean like silly putty or the thousands of other toys that present choking hazards to children? All toys are not appropriate for all children. I wouldn't give my daughter magnets to play with. I also wouldn't give her silly putty or dice or a chemistry set. She's too young. Eventually she can have all these things and a gallon of bleach under her bathroom sink. But not for quite a while.
- DanBC 10y ago
  But eating small amounts of silly putty isn't going to kill me, and there's no reason to eat silly putty, and it's quite unpleasant tasting. These magnet companies knew that teenagers were using the magnets for fake piercing jewellery. They knew there was a risk that young people were eating the jewellery, and they resisted putting warnings on the packs and resisted moving the product off toy shelves.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > But eating small amounts of silly putty isn't going to kill me But choking on a wad of silly putty definitely can. Hence the fact that it's labeled as a choking hazard and not for young children. I don't think the bar for "should be banned" is "small amounts are dangerous". A "small amount" of Scrabble can kill your kid, despite there being "no reason" to eat Scrabble tiles, but we don't ban it. Toy stores sell balloons and jacks and dice and all kinds of things that pose real dangers to kids. > These magnet companies knew that teenagers were using the magnets for fake piercing jewellery. Shrug? Car manufacturers know teens are racing cars and snowboard manufacturers know teens are riding down black diamonds with little skill and no helmets. Teens do stupid things and we don't ban entire categories of product to attempt to protect them from minor dangers. > * they resisted putting warnings on the packs and resisted moving the product off toy shelves.* Did they actually resist labeling them or just resist the ban? If they resisted labeling, that's pointless and dumb and it's perfectly reasonable that they be required to label clearly and appropriately.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    They did not resist putting warnings on the packs. At this point you're just making things up to perpetuate a losing argument. Here's a sample of the sort of warnings they came with: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dLyA8DED--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/cgrnog92silsuigpidbp.png https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dLyA8DE... Did quite a lot of people ignore the warnings? Yes? Is that the manufacturer's fault? No, it's the fault of the people who saw a warning and didn't bother to read it or take it seriously. No doubt they are some very unhappy people because their kids ended up in hospital, but their opinions are worthless because they had the safety information and put their children at risk because they chose to ignore it. That's not the manufacturers' fault.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Its about risk/reward. The fun to be had is perhaps small compared to the large risk (hospitalization). Most of us trust that toys for kids will be essentially harmless. We choose to live in a trusting society, yes. That doesn't make us guilty of anything. This is such a subtle risk, its arguable that a printed warning on a paper container is insufficient. What happens when the packaging is discarded? Another kid enters the house? Your kid gives the toy away?
      - anigbrowl 10y ago
        Most of us trust that toys for kids will be essentially harmless. Speak for yourself - you don't speak for everyone else and I see no reason to use your standard as the default. I have no such trust because I have always looked at safety warnings and taken them at face value. I always loved playing with Lego, but I was also aware that Lego bricks have sharp edges and are a choking hazard for small children. I knew this when I was a kid too. Finally, I see no reason for you to lump these magnets in with all other 'toys for kids'. The buckyball magnets came with a very clear warning that they were for people 13 and over, and that you could get injured or even die by swallowing the magnets. When an item comes with a clear and unambiguous written warning of specific dangers and your idea of 'living in a trusting society' is to ignore such explicit warnings then yes it does make you guilty of something - negligence. It's simply not fair to demand that other people accept liability for your actions when you are literally refusing to read clearly written warnings This is such a subtle risk, its arguable that a printed warning on a paper container is insufficient. What happens when the packaging is discarded? Another kid enters the house? Your kid gives the toy away? It's not subtle at all, it's easy to observe the risk from playing with the magnets for a couple of minutes and seeing how powerful they are. When the physical forces involved are self-evident then at some point you have take responsibility for paying attention to what your own senses are telling you. You're literally complaining that this is somehow too hard to think about it for ordinary people, and if you think that then you should be up in arms about the accessibility of gas stations, things make out of glass, and all sorts of other 'subtle' hazards that people navigate on a daily basis. What happens when the packaging is discarded? The person doing the discarding takes responsibility for leaving the magnets in a safe place where they can not be got at by unsupervised children. I have clusters of neodymium magnets in several places around my house, out of the packaging. I know where they are, I know that I may need to move them if my friends who have kids come to visit (just like I need to move some other things I don't want them getting into), and I know that if I show them off or anyone expresses an interest in them that I have an obligation to point out that they are powerful and dangerous. And just in case, my home insurance policy covers me against financial liability if someone does suffer an injury while visiting my home. Stop telling me it's a 'subtle risk.' That's complete BS when I can see and feel for myself that the things are really powerful. A subtle risk would be a lump of attractive-looking material whose radioactive nature isn't apparent without some kind of special measuring apparatus. I cannot understand why you are arguing that people should literally disregard the evidence of their senses rather than accept even a modicum of legal liability.
mibbiting 10y ago
If your child (Lets assume over the age of 2 or 3), is still eating random non-food items, you have some real parenting problems.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Older children were using them as fake piercings: http://www.poison.org/articles/2012-oct/toy-magnets-are-dangerous-for-children http://www.poison.org/articles/2012-oct/toy-magnets-are-dang... > Avoid the use of magnetic beads as fake body piercings.
  - mibbiting 10y ago
    Sure. And they were let down massively by their parents.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      Therefore... they should die?
      - mibbiting 10y ago
        That's an idiotic conclusion. How about teenagers who play with fireworks and die? Do we need to ban fireworks? Or do we just need parents to educate their children that fireworks are dangerous.
      - anigbrowl 10y ago
        No; but if they do, it's the parents who should be held liable for disregarding important safety information. This whole debate is symptomatic of some bigger cultural problem. It reminds me of when some kid shoots themselves with a gun and then the community is all 'too bad, so sad' and no charges are brought against the parent because they've been through the 'tragedy' of losing a child. Well that's tragic for them but it was fatal for the child, and dead children are not getting any justice when their negligent parents are let off the hook for causing the death of another person. I mean, if I as an adult was hanging out with you and then I died because you handed me something that looked like a can of coke but was actually a hand grenade, then you'd be charged with manslaughter for failing to apprise me of the risk. But when small children get hold of guns and kill themselves (or worse, kill another kid) that's frequently just treated as 'the cost of our 2nd amendment freedom' or some bullshit. there are a lot of cases where parents get off with no legal penalty because the death of a child is so painful, even though they're clearly responsible. That does not make it OK to push the liability onto some third party who wasn't present and who supplied a a dangerous product with a detailed warning about the risks involved in it suse which people chose to ignore.

tw04 10y ago

Sure there are, many of them look like candy (for instance, in reference to zenmagnets, the neoballs). I've not seen magnets sold in grocery stores or home stores that share that property. Additionally, the size and shape make them quite easy for a child to swallow. What magnet have you seen in a grocery store or Home Depot that is the size and shape of a small gumball? Link?

dpark 10y ago
Have you spent much time with small children? They'll happily stick buttons (and button magnets) in their mouths if they find them on the floor. Kids who don't even know what candy is will still put small objects into their mouths because it's what they do. Buttons are about as easy to swallow as small balls. We literally package medicine in button shape because it's easy to swallow. I vividly remember kids in late elementary school playing with pencil grips and cola can tabs in their mouths. I was always terrified someone was going to choke to death on one. (They didn't.) These were kids old enough to know that they weren't candy and they still put them in their mouths because kids are just kind of dumb. There are also stories of teens using ball magnets for tongue "piercings" and accidentally swallowing them. Magnets absolutely don't have to look like candy to be dangerous. Most ball magnets are also not colorful. Even if the colorful ones were somehow especially dangerous, that wouldn't make all ball magnets especially dangerous.

smokey_the_bear 10y ago

Grandpa bought some similar powerful magnets in the Grand Canyon gift shop and gave them to my two year old when I wasn't looking. So sure, he and I were both being negligent. But it also seems like a dangerous set up.

anigbrowl 10y ago
There's no but here. Grandpa was negligent and put a small child's safety at risk because he ignored the risk warnings on the product in favor of an assumption that 'anything sold in a gift shop must be safe.' I don't want to be rude about your parent but the liability is squarely on him (and you, insofar as you left your child in his risk-indifferent custody). I don't mean to attack you personally in any way, but if you have an awareness that such things as small powerful magnets exist and can imagine what the risks would be, how is it not your job as a parent to be on the lookout for that? You manage to be on the lookout for all sorts of other risks that exist in your household - drowning, fire, chemicals, sharp objects, and so on. I do not believe that adding an awareness of magnets (which are generally pretty easy to identify because of their magnetic properties causing them to stick to metallic surfaces or each other) causes some unacceptably large burden. You've known what magnets are since you were a small child. You are almost certainly easily able to distinguish between a bunch of magnetic balls and a bunch of non-magnetic ball bearings by simply looking at them. How is it not your responsibility to use that knowledge?
- smokey_the_bear 10y ago
  There was not a warning on the packaging. I am glad you are a perfect parent, it is very lucky for you and your children. Congratulations!
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    I find that hard to believe without a photograph, and even if it were true the intense nature of the magnetic force is self-evident. Common sense mitigates against giving any small non-food objects to a 2-year old. I never claimed to be a perfect parent (nice attempt at misdirection there). But I don't try to hold other people responsible for the decisions I make. When people with kids visit me or leave their kids in my care then their safety is my primary responsibility and I'm willing to accept that.