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It would be extremely silly to stop using nuclear power. What we need is a passive safety system and type of reactor that cannot go critical and does not produc

It would be extremely silly to stop using nuclear power. What we need is a passive safety system and type of reactor that cannot go critical and does not produce long lasting isotopes. Surprisingly, all of these are ready from the technology point of view, the only reason not to build them is financial. There are also plans to use the waste of older reactor models in the new gen IV type reactors and produce isotopes that last only few decades instead of few millenia. This would solve the biggest issue with older reactors, having a large amount of very active products that we need to store safely for a long time. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602051/fail-safe-nuclear-power/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602051/fail-safe-nuclear-... http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2015/01/16/thorium-future-nuclear-energy/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2015/01/16/thorium-fu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor#Advantages_and_disadvantages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor#Advantag...

woodpanel 10y ago
> It would be extremely silly to stop using nuclear power That's what a minority in Germany said, before the majority voted against nuclear power. Hence the energy clusterfk Germany is now in. Germany, a country with almost non-existent seismic activity killed its nuclear energy future because a tsunami happened in Fukushima. [1] It's not just "silly" it is that much silly, that sooner or later the prohibition will be repealed out of necessity. And the same fate would have happened to the Swiss plebiscite's result if it were a win. [1] "voted against because of Fukushima" is technically a crass simplification. First Germans voted for the parties that pledged to end nuclear power. Then Merkel won the next election, cancelled nuclear-prohibition. But when Fukushima happened everybody knew Merkel would be out of office within weeks if she didn't immediately repeal her repeal.
- StreamBright 10y ago
  You can play the emotional cord any time to get voters to vote on anything, and you can make any multi-dimensional problem single dimensional. Increasing fossil fuel usage is not the answer and it never will be the answer. Once we have great solar panels and large capacity batteries we can use solar as the primary source, but the technology is decades away, best case. This does not look good: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Electricity_Production_in_Germany.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Electric...
  - labster 10y ago
    We do have large capacity batteries for solar right now, it's called pumped hydro storage. It's a droughtful prospect here in California, but I could see it working out in Germany pretty well.
    - woodpanel 10y ago
      I do think too battery improvement will mean a major progress. However, I invite you to visit my country. Pick any date in the year but two months and you'll see: "capacity batteries for solar" are not our problem with solar ;-)
      - labster 10y ago
        Heh, I'll just extrapolate from my visits to Seattle. I will try to visit next year -- during one of the sunny months. Actually, I think a lot of the problems facing Europe with renewables are the same in the U.S. Abundant solar and wind available in the south, and no efficient way of transferring the electric power north.
  - woodpanel 10y ago
    Oh my... The current plan is to shut down all German nuclear energy plants by 2022. One major problem a non-sunny, non-constant-storm and non-wast-ranges-of-mountain-spring country like Germany already faces: Our energy-grid is not equipped for the high fluctuations nature provides in energy. We often have to use foreign energy grids so that ours doesn't collapse in times of high renewable energy input. The plagued neighbours repeatedly threatened to cut us off from their network if we proceed to do this In the meantime, these energy dumps on our neighbours grids are re-labled as proof that the renewable energy agenda works because we became "net energy exporters". Also, our grid isn't equipped for it because of the geographical dislocations of renewable power sources and where our industry clusters are. Thus creating the need for a "energy autobahn", basically 2-4 Gigawatt landlines. It doesn't help that the same backwards-thinking that got us into quitting nuclear is actively engaging against the "electro-smog" of these new-to-be-built landlines, forcing those lines underneath, which is multiplying the costs. Also, with the energy gap that's about to happen in Germany our neighbors are actively building nuclear plants right across the border. So if you had any fears about nuclear fallout ... well done! Finally, all this massive undertaking results in chiseled government redistribution programs that amount to a humongous bill that ultimately those people will have to pay the most, that made least use of the redistribution programs. For instance: rich farmers estates are littered with subsidized solar panels, which produce energy that the energy companies have to buy for a constantly rising government-set minimum price. Those companies of course are sharing the costs with their customers, which includes everyone and the poor).
- DasIch 10y ago
  Germany decided to get rid of nuclear power long before Fukushima and had massive protests against much for much longer still.
  - woodpanel 10y ago
    Please read till the end before condemn.
    - DasIch 10y ago
      I have and it doesn't get more accurate. The current plan was in place before Fukushima. What happened is that under Merkel, they increased the timeframe for abandoning nuclear energy after Fukushima, that was reversed after Fukushima.
trizinix 10y ago
Where did you get the fact that they are ready from the technology point of view? Switzerland is part of the Generation IV International Forum and is represented by the Paul Scherrer Institute. According to their Website[1]: "Before a commercial MSR can go into service anywhere in the world, scientists and engineers have another 20 to 30 years of research and development ahead of them." The Chinese plan to build the first MSRs in 15 years, whether they will succeed is another question. If the price for solar keeps dropping it won't make sense to build new nuclear power plants in a few years. [1] https://www.psi.ch/media/molten-salt-reactors-exploring-an-alternative https://www.psi.ch/media/molten-salt-reactors-exploring-an-a...
- StreamBright 10y ago
  Isn't there a thorium reactor type ready? Gen IV is a concept though, there are several different types, depending which one we are talking about the projects are in different phases. Molten salt reactor is surely not going to go into mass production next year and yes if the solar tech development accelerates we might not need any nuclear reactors at all.

woodpanel 10y ago

> It would be extremely silly to stop using nuclear power That's what a minority in Germany said, before the majority voted against nuclear power. Hence the energy clusterfk Germany is now in. Germany, a country with almost non-existent seismic activity killed its nuclear energy future because a tsunami happened in Fukushima. [1] It's not just "silly" it is that much silly, that sooner or later the prohibition will be repealed out of necessity. And the same fate would have happened to the Swiss plebiscite's result if it were a win. [1] "voted against because of Fukushima" is technically a crass simplification. First Germans voted for the parties that pledged to end nuclear power. Then Merkel won the next election, cancelled nuclear-prohibition. But when Fukushima happened everybody knew Merkel would be out of office within weeks if she didn't immediately repeal her repeal.

StreamBright 10y ago
You can play the emotional cord any time to get voters to vote on anything, and you can make any multi-dimensional problem single dimensional. Increasing fossil fuel usage is not the answer and it never will be the answer. Once we have great solar panels and large capacity batteries we can use solar as the primary source, but the technology is decades away, best case. This does not look good: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Electricity_Production_in_Germany.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Electric...
- labster 10y ago
  We do have large capacity batteries for solar right now, it's called pumped hydro storage. It's a droughtful prospect here in California, but I could see it working out in Germany pretty well.
  - woodpanel 10y ago
    I do think too battery improvement will mean a major progress. However, I invite you to visit my country. Pick any date in the year but two months and you'll see: "capacity batteries for solar" are not our problem with solar ;-)
    - labster 10y ago
      Heh, I'll just extrapolate from my visits to Seattle. I will try to visit next year -- during one of the sunny months. Actually, I think a lot of the problems facing Europe with renewables are the same in the U.S. Abundant solar and wind available in the south, and no efficient way of transferring the electric power north.
- woodpanel 10y ago
  Oh my... The current plan is to shut down all German nuclear energy plants by 2022. One major problem a non-sunny, non-constant-storm and non-wast-ranges-of-mountain-spring country like Germany already faces: Our energy-grid is not equipped for the high fluctuations nature provides in energy. We often have to use foreign energy grids so that ours doesn't collapse in times of high renewable energy input. The plagued neighbours repeatedly threatened to cut us off from their network if we proceed to do this In the meantime, these energy dumps on our neighbours grids are re-labled as proof that the renewable energy agenda works because we became "net energy exporters". Also, our grid isn't equipped for it because of the geographical dislocations of renewable power sources and where our industry clusters are. Thus creating the need for a "energy autobahn", basically 2-4 Gigawatt landlines. It doesn't help that the same backwards-thinking that got us into quitting nuclear is actively engaging against the "electro-smog" of these new-to-be-built landlines, forcing those lines underneath, which is multiplying the costs. Also, with the energy gap that's about to happen in Germany our neighbors are actively building nuclear plants right across the border. So if you had any fears about nuclear fallout ... well done! Finally, all this massive undertaking results in chiseled government redistribution programs that amount to a humongous bill that ultimately those people will have to pay the most, that made least use of the redistribution programs. For instance: rich farmers estates are littered with subsidized solar panels, which produce energy that the energy companies have to buy for a constantly rising government-set minimum price. Those companies of course are sharing the costs with their customers, which includes everyone and the poor).
DasIch 10y ago
Germany decided to get rid of nuclear power long before Fukushima and had massive protests against much for much longer still.
- woodpanel 10y ago
  Please read till the end before condemn.
  - DasIch 10y ago
    I have and it doesn't get more accurate. The current plan was in place before Fukushima. What happened is that under Merkel, they increased the timeframe for abandoning nuclear energy after Fukushima, that was reversed after Fukushima.

trizinix 10y ago

Where did you get the fact that they are ready from the technology point of view? Switzerland is part of the Generation IV International Forum and is represented by the Paul Scherrer Institute. According to their Website[1]: "Before a commercial MSR can go into service anywhere in the world, scientists and engineers have another 20 to 30 years of research and development ahead of them." The Chinese plan to build the first MSRs in 15 years, whether they will succeed is another question. If the price for solar keeps dropping it won't make sense to build new nuclear power plants in a few years. [1] https://www.psi.ch/media/molten-salt-reactors-exploring-an-alternative https://www.psi.ch/media/molten-salt-reactors-exploring-an-a...

StreamBright 10y ago
Isn't there a thorium reactor type ready? Gen IV is a concept though, there are several different types, depending which one we are talking about the projects are in different phases. Molten salt reactor is surely not going to go into mass production next year and yes if the solar tech development accelerates we might not need any nuclear reactors at all.