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This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abjec

This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. "Up until today, Cuba still sends significant numbers of doctors to remote African areas and provide expensive medical procedures for free." This is false and misleading. They do not provide it for free - they are paid by international agencies and it is one of the few real 'exports' that Cuba has. Most perniciously - the money that is supposed to go to the doctors mostly goes to the military junta - while the doctors themselves receive very little. Moreover - the Cuban doctors abroad are prisoners. They are held with the threat of violence or internment of their families back home. If they try to escape or leave - they go to prison: http://www.cubanet.org/htdocs/CNews/y00/jun00/06e4.htm http://www.cubanet.org/htdocs/CNews/y00/jun00/06e4.htm Those doctors that 'helped you' get 5% of their 'salary' - while 95% goes to their captors. Praise the doctors, not Fidel. I find it abhorrent that such statements could be made about a cruel dictator, who has done 'some possibly good things' in the name of his legacy, whilst at the same time tormenting millions. It's sad that people should hold such a tyrant in such esteem - because not only are those medical programs are paid for mostly by 'evil Western Nations' - aid to African nations is overwhelmingly from 'Western nations' (at least in terms of direct/indirect aid - of course China is a huge economic investor). Let us not make a totem of this man without being cognizant of all the things he has done.

coldtea 10y ago
>However, the man has committed grievous crimes Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. >keeps 'his people' in abject poverty A 40+ years embargo has something to do with that too... >More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. It's in control of the state, which is how things are supposed to work in communist countries. Not necessarily worse than having it in the hands of corporations...
- mememachine 10y ago
  do you see anyone defending those responsible for the crimes you listed?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    No, but I do see people calling a leader/country/regime "evil" etc for doing 1/10th of what theirs, which they'd never think of calling evil, did.
    - sremani 10y ago
      If you have a better word, surely suggest. what is the word for "clinging to power for seven decades and taking the country through economic hell, year after year, all the while jailing political opponents and at times getting rid of them"
      - polymatter 10y ago
        Many many words are better than "evil". How about "autocratic" or "dictatorial" or "power-hungry" or "delusional". Or perhaps a phrase like "ruthlessly uncompromising". All of them convey much more actual information and still have your judgemental tone. For what its worth, I think "evil" is a word that shouldn't be used outside of storybooks. It is a binary word that is far too overgeneralised to the point it is meaningless to ascribe. It doesn't serve any persuasive or descriptive purpose.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        I don't know. What is the word for "playing world cop, being full of crazy religious and racist nuts, having created KKK, being the worlds top incarceration rate, still having the death penalty, starting wars and protecting your "interests" right and left all over the globe where you have no place, getting in bed with all kind of dictators and fascist regimes --as long as they were not communist dictators they were ok-- , dropping nuclear bombs on civilians, and having the guts to point a hollier than thou finger on the rest of the world"? Even that, I wouldn't call "evil" -- self-serving imperialistic and post-colonial would fit better. Evil is a BS biblical notion for pre-modern people. It's no way to look at history with a rational mindset, and doesn't offer any explanation of various acts, nor a historical perspective.
firekvz 10y ago
So what's your position on US people responsible for Pinochet?(just to name 1 of so many examples), if we are going to start mentioning crimes, I think Fidel Castro and his brother are pretty down on the list of people that we should be worrying about.
liquidise 10y ago
> It's sad that people should hold such a tyrant in such esteem What is sad is how quickly people reach for a wide, monotone brush they like to paint things with lately. As an american, i have heard roughly your description of castro my entire life. To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational.
- mememachine 10y ago
  as he demonstrated the version from the other continent was uninformed
  - ramy_d 10y ago
    I wouldn't dismiss it as uninformed. chirau was speaking directly to consequences that affected them, impressions personal to them.
- edblarney 10y ago
  " To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational." I guess it's fair that many Americans don't know a lot about him and don't know about the details of his activities in Africa with doctors (and military, by the way). But that's kind of an American thing ... not enough 'world events' in the American press :), no offense.
meowface 10y ago
I think we can admit that there was good and bad to him and he was not objectively virtuous or evil.
lanna 10y ago
thanks for exposing the truth
forgotpwtomain 10y ago
> However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. I didn't really want to comment in this thread but to be clear, the US embargo has kept Cuba in abject economic poverty not Castro.
chirau 10y ago
I do not agree with most of what you said. You would have to point me to evidence of your claims. As for the two doctors your pointed to, I am sure they are the exception. I happen to be Zimbabwean, actually, a good number of my childhood doctors were Cuban and they were there happily and willingly. My brother, a doctor himself, has many friends from Cuba who say the same. You should read this article when you get a chance. http://qz.com/846337/cuban-leader-fidel-castro-was-a-liberation-icon-in-africa-and-remained-committed-to-the-continent/ http://qz.com/846337/cuban-leader-fidel-castro-was-a-liberat... There really is nothing disturbing about my opinion. At least on the African continent that is. Perspectives differ, I guess.

coldtea 10y ago

>However, the man has committed grievous crimes Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. >keeps 'his people' in abject poverty A 40+ years embargo has something to do with that too... >More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. It's in control of the state, which is how things are supposed to work in communist countries. Not necessarily worse than having it in the hands of corporations...

mememachine 10y ago
do you see anyone defending those responsible for the crimes you listed?
- coldtea 10y ago
  No, but I do see people calling a leader/country/regime "evil" etc for doing 1/10th of what theirs, which they'd never think of calling evil, did.
  - sremani 10y ago
    If you have a better word, surely suggest. what is the word for "clinging to power for seven decades and taking the country through economic hell, year after year, all the while jailing political opponents and at times getting rid of them"
    - polymatter 10y ago
      Many many words are better than "evil". How about "autocratic" or "dictatorial" or "power-hungry" or "delusional". Or perhaps a phrase like "ruthlessly uncompromising". All of them convey much more actual information and still have your judgemental tone. For what its worth, I think "evil" is a word that shouldn't be used outside of storybooks. It is a binary word that is far too overgeneralised to the point it is meaningless to ascribe. It doesn't serve any persuasive or descriptive purpose.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      I don't know. What is the word for "playing world cop, being full of crazy religious and racist nuts, having created KKK, being the worlds top incarceration rate, still having the death penalty, starting wars and protecting your "interests" right and left all over the globe where you have no place, getting in bed with all kind of dictators and fascist regimes --as long as they were not communist dictators they were ok-- , dropping nuclear bombs on civilians, and having the guts to point a hollier than thou finger on the rest of the world"? Even that, I wouldn't call "evil" -- self-serving imperialistic and post-colonial would fit better. Evil is a BS biblical notion for pre-modern people. It's no way to look at history with a rational mindset, and doesn't offer any explanation of various acts, nor a historical perspective.

firekvz 10y ago

So what's your position on US people responsible for Pinochet?(just to name 1 of so many examples), if we are going to start mentioning crimes, I think Fidel Castro and his brother are pretty down on the list of people that we should be worrying about.

liquidise 10y ago

> It's sad that people should hold such a tyrant in such esteem What is sad is how quickly people reach for a wide, monotone brush they like to paint things with lately. As an american, i have heard roughly your description of castro my entire life. To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational.

mememachine 10y ago
as he demonstrated the version from the other continent was uninformed
- ramy_d 10y ago
  I wouldn't dismiss it as uninformed. chirau was speaking directly to consequences that affected them, impressions personal to them.
edblarney 10y ago
" To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational." I guess it's fair that many Americans don't know a lot about him and don't know about the details of his activities in Africa with doctors (and military, by the way). But that's kind of an American thing ... not enough 'world events' in the American press :), no offense.

meowface 10y ago

I think we can admit that there was good and bad to him and he was not objectively virtuous or evil.

lanna 10y ago

thanks for exposing the truth

forgotpwtomain 10y ago

> However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. I didn't really want to comment in this thread but to be clear, the US embargo has kept Cuba in abject economic poverty not Castro.

chirau 10y ago

I do not agree with most of what you said. You would have to point me to evidence of your claims. As for the two doctors your pointed to, I am sure they are the exception. I happen to be Zimbabwean, actually, a good number of my childhood doctors were Cuban and they were there happily and willingly. My brother, a doctor himself, has many friends from Cuba who say the same. You should read this article when you get a chance. http://qz.com/846337/cuban-leader-fidel-castro-was-a-liberation-icon-in-africa-and-remained-committed-to-the-continent/ http://qz.com/846337/cuban-leader-fidel-castro-was-a-liberat... There really is nothing disturbing about my opinion. At least on the African continent that is. Perspectives differ, I guess.