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How do you build a system that is stable where an individual is expected to leave some personal gain on the table? That runs entirely counter to human nature.

• bjelkeman-again 10y ago
  Really? In Northern Europe I would argue we have this working decently well. To point where we have a health care system and educational system which is both less expensive than some and more productive/effective at the same time.
  • jimbokun 10y ago
    Stop rubbing it in.
  • snrplfth 10y ago
    What's notable is that Northern European economies have among the freest, most "market capitalist" economies on Earth. There's a substantial amount of tax-and-redistribute to them, but very little in the way of economic planning, or actual-socialist communalism. Mostly it's just a large welfare state.
• nico_h 10y ago
  a) is this worse than the current system? b) Is it really human nature? This is what social norms are for. Slavery is for now still mostly frowned upon, and in some circles even racism is. Even though using either usually results in huge personnal gains for some.
  • sqeaky 10y ago
    Slavery is a great example to work with. It has been made so costly to own slaves that no one in the western world can or wants to do it. In most areas just the social of ramifications of attempting to acquire slaves will cause all your customers to leave and employers to fire you. Then if you somehow do get a few slaves law enforcement or military agencies will try to stop you. Since they generally enforce their monopoly on violence they will probably succeed at stopping you. Only in the places most removed from these incentives do we see slavery. Look at North Korea, much of the population can be seen as slaves (The subsistence farmers for example). The costs of keeping the slaves can be thought of as the cost of running their propaganda machine, arming their military, controlling the border and the loss in relations with the rest of the world. As long the leaders fail to gain a sense of compassion then the only thing that matters to them is their slaves make more than they cost.
    • youdontknowtho 10y ago
      People should leave slavery out of their intellectual arguments. Its callous. Human trafficking is still organized, global, and wildly profitable. There are people in slavery near you, no matter where you are. It's real.
    • nico_h 10y ago
      A more modern and relevant example would be the foreign workers from the indian subcontinent on most of the middle east construction sites building the sky scrapers or the next FIFA cup facilities. (withheld pay, life threatening living conditions, confiscated passports). These is modern slavery. Aided and abetted by the state. You may also want to look at the few stories of "domestic workers" and "maid" abuse that make the headlines from time to time in your own country (works in any country with a free press). As said in another comment, slavery is alive and well. It is only frowned upon.
• lucideer 10y ago
  Because it doesn't run counter to human nature. If I had a dollar for every time someone rolled out that painful, tired line... It's utterly baseless. Again, it comes down to oversimplification. bjelkeman-again has a fair point re: northern Europe; some very good examples to the contrary.
• rndmize 10y ago
  > That runs entirely counter to human nature. Not so. Tribal societies inherently function on everyone in the tribe working for the overall good rather than their individual gain. Socially, this is how we function by default - people will make sacrifices, extend loans, give gifts, and generally help out those close to them (family, friends, tribe members) without an expectation of something in return.
  • robryan 10y ago
    Yes, in small groups such as tribes. There is reciprocal altruism at play, where helping other members of the group can reasonably expected to be repaid in future, so it can be a win win. In our modern world it is often going to be the case that you won't deal with the same people again, or the transaction is completed completely impersonally.
  • AndrewUnmuted 10y ago
    When I extend a loan to a friend, I do it because I value the relationship with that friend more than the timely receipt of payment. This is a selfish action on my part, is it not?