4 ms·

You don't think you have any duty to try not to live off welfare, as long as not many people do it?

by euyyn 10y ago

posterboy 10y ago
Why the double negative? Are you that pessimistic? Edit: Make that a triple.
clarry 10y ago
I can think of all the bullshit jobs people do and then come to the conclusion that it'd be better for me to do what I can to contribute to society through research, participation in free software projects, volunteering, etc. Doing that I could be useful to thousands, maybe even millions of people. As opposed to, say, wasting the time of hundreds of people trying to sell them stupid magazines they don't need or want while leeching money off of the poor grandma who doesn't know how to say no. Alternatively, I could spend the time to build something that somewhere down the line could become a useful product to share with the world, or a profitable business that could pay back all the tax money I used up (and more). Doing a bullshit job 8 hours a day leaves me too exhausted to do anything particularly useful with the little free time I have.
- euyyn 10y ago
  Most jobs are honest and do people a service, you don't even need to look hard or anything. If you want impact, and can write software, there's plenty of well-paid jobs for that in the US; Silicon Valley and elsewhere. That not only lets you contribute taxes instead of living off them, it also helps you be more productive, focused, and impactful. Is teaching a bullshit job? Installing solar panels in people's roofs? Doing the accounting that keeps a hospital working? Cooking or waiting in a small restaurant where the firemen next door have lunch?
  - jokoon 10y ago
    The former jobs you describe require education or experience, and are in limited supply. Waiting tables means you live on tips. It's not a job you can do for life.
    - orasis 10y ago
      I taught myself to code - I wouldn't say that kind of education is in short supply.
    - euyyn 10y ago
      You've never met an older waiter? Even at a McDonald's I've seen people above 50 attending. To install solar panels you don't need more than a training course, it doesn't require more education than any factory job. Same for cooking.
jokoon 10y ago
Legally, I think no, I don't. Morally? I don't believe in morals.
- grzm 10y ago
  Interesting. Honest question, do you believe in anything other than laws as a guide for life? I suspect you do, but I don't want to assume so, given your comment. I find "if it's legal, it's okay" problematic given that laws change. If laws can change, what drives that change if not some code the laws are meant to approach?
  - jokoon 10y ago
    I believe mutual cooperation is more important than competition. > what drives that change Congress I think
- somestag 10y ago
  Do you not believe in morals at all, or do you just not believe in universal morals? What about ethics? I ask because your position takes on very different implications depending on exactly what you believe. In my experience, most people who say they don't believe in morals actually seem to believe very strongly in them; they just don't believe that the morals of the majority should be imposed on others who don't share the same values. I don't necessarily want to assume that's your position, though.
- euyyn 10y ago
  You don't believe morality exists, or is that a fancy way of saying "I don't have morals?" Because the welfare and healthcare system you are looking forward to live off exists only because of morals.
  - jokoon 10y ago
    I don't think they exist because of morals. If you want a country that is thriving, lower classes should have a good living standard. The lower class is the basis of any country. Even if you have very smart people at the top, they can't do a lot if the people under them can't count or have poor health. I believe that if you set a good minimum standard, it will trickle up. Also if you don't want riots in the streets, you should make sure the lower classes are living decently. That's not morals, that political intelligence. Crowds with empty stomachs are a political nightmare.

You don't think you have any duty to try not to live off welfare, as long as not many people do it?

by euyyn 10y ago

You don't think you have any duty to try not to live off welfare, as long as not many people do it?

posterboy 10y ago

Why the double negative? Are you that pessimistic? Edit: Make that a triple.

clarry 10y ago

I can think of all the bullshit jobs people do and then come to the conclusion that it'd be better for me to do what I can to contribute to society through research, participation in free software projects, volunteering, etc. Doing that I could be useful to thousands, maybe even millions of people. As opposed to, say, wasting the time of hundreds of people trying to sell them stupid magazines they don't need or want while leeching money off of the poor grandma who doesn't know how to say no. Alternatively, I could spend the time to build something that somewhere down the line could become a useful product to share with the world, or a profitable business that could pay back all the tax money I used up (and more). Doing a bullshit job 8 hours a day leaves me too exhausted to do anything particularly useful with the little free time I have.

euyyn 10y ago
Most jobs are honest and do people a service, you don't even need to look hard or anything. If you want impact, and can write software, there's plenty of well-paid jobs for that in the US; Silicon Valley and elsewhere. That not only lets you contribute taxes instead of living off them, it also helps you be more productive, focused, and impactful. Is teaching a bullshit job? Installing solar panels in people's roofs? Doing the accounting that keeps a hospital working? Cooking or waiting in a small restaurant where the firemen next door have lunch?
- jokoon 10y ago
  The former jobs you describe require education or experience, and are in limited supply. Waiting tables means you live on tips. It's not a job you can do for life.
  - orasis 10y ago
    I taught myself to code - I wouldn't say that kind of education is in short supply.
  - euyyn 10y ago
    You've never met an older waiter? Even at a McDonald's I've seen people above 50 attending. To install solar panels you don't need more than a training course, it doesn't require more education than any factory job. Same for cooking.

jokoon 10y ago

Legally, I think no, I don't. Morally? I don't believe in morals.

grzm 10y ago
Interesting. Honest question, do you believe in anything other than laws as a guide for life? I suspect you do, but I don't want to assume so, given your comment. I find "if it's legal, it's okay" problematic given that laws change. If laws can change, what drives that change if not some code the laws are meant to approach?
- jokoon 10y ago
  I believe mutual cooperation is more important than competition. > what drives that change Congress I think
somestag 10y ago
Do you not believe in morals at all, or do you just not believe in universal morals? What about ethics? I ask because your position takes on very different implications depending on exactly what you believe. In my experience, most people who say they don't believe in morals actually seem to believe very strongly in them; they just don't believe that the morals of the majority should be imposed on others who don't share the same values. I don't necessarily want to assume that's your position, though.
euyyn 10y ago
You don't believe morality exists, or is that a fancy way of saying "I don't have morals?" Because the welfare and healthcare system you are looking forward to live off exists only because of morals.
- jokoon 10y ago
  I don't think they exist because of morals. If you want a country that is thriving, lower classes should have a good living standard. The lower class is the basis of any country. Even if you have very smart people at the top, they can't do a lot if the people under them can't count or have poor health. I believe that if you set a good minimum standard, it will trickle up. Also if you don't want riots in the streets, you should make sure the lower classes are living decently. That's not morals, that political intelligence. Crowds with empty stomachs are a political nightmare.