10 ms·

Can't believe there are populist parties in Spain defending this model and trying to import it.

by logronoide 10y ago

danmaz74 10y ago
And Spain doesn't even have the oil Venezuela has...
- adventured 10y ago
  The most interesting thing about Venezuela's oil, is that by the time they could get around to extracting any meaningful volume (in proportion to the total), oil will have lost the majority of its demand. Venezuela has maybe 30 years tops to extract as much oil as they can before the bottom falls out. The odds are, they'll never see even a small fraction of that wealth extracted, it'll remain in the ground and the time of oil will pass.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    I don't know if the time of oil will pass this soon, we make plastics from it and it's still the best store of energy we know of (in terms of calories per unit of weight). Batteries are nowhere near.
    - adventured 10y ago
      You're referring to today. 30 years is a long time technologically. Especially given the extreme market pressure that is beginning in regards to electric vehicles and home + utility storage. You've no doubt seen the lithium storage to price curve and that's pathetic battery technology compared to what is ahead of us. Batteries will improve dramatically in all regards (battery skeptics previously universally failed to predict the lithium battery price plunge). My premise is that the majority of oil demand will be gone in 30 years or so, not all of it. Losing the automobile industry to electric (nothing can stop that over the coming 30 years) will cut oil demand in half globally without anything else changing. Venezuela is cursed with mediocre quality oil that isn't easily extracted, so they'll be the first losers as oil demand falls (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Russia as low cost producers will be the last standing and will fill that last 50% of the market that more slowly erodes).
      - aclsid 10y ago
        I think the oil companies would disagree with you. Even with electric cars and whatnot, look up the figures, oil consumption around the world just keeps increasing, and more to the point, some nations are running out of it, at least for exports. Venezuela still has a lot of light crude oil, and also the large heavy crude deposits, which is still cheaper to refine than shale oil for instance. The industry here still has not even touched all the offshore resources properly and it is mostly suffering from lack of investment, especially in exploration for new wells. And in the end, when all that is consumed we will probably turn to the uranium and God knows other minerals in the Amazon, instead of properly developing and diversifying the economy.
wooter 10y ago
Sanders praised it. As a Venezuelan in SF, I've had my fair share of arguments where I've had to defend the perspective that Venezuela isn't a socialist paradise. "These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?" - http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-gaps-disparities-that-threaten-america http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-g...
- macspoofing 10y ago
  GOP would have had a field day with Bernie had he been nominated instead of Clinton.
  - tormeh 10y ago
    Just like the Democrats had a field day with Trump: Great entertainment, but the outcome wasn't all that fun. Bush would have been less fun, but he would have lost.
- LordFrith 10y ago
  In SF I keep seeing flyers titled "Can The Bolivarian Revolution be saved?", and I think to myself probably not.
  - tim333 10y ago
    The Cuban revolution has lasted quite a while. Chavez and Maduro were big fans.
    - BurningFrog 10y ago
      The recent thawing of US/Cuban relations are a direct result of Venezuela not being able to afford their foreign aid to the Cuban government anymore.
pablovidal85 10y ago
Actually they don't defend this model. Some of their leading heads were hired as consultants by the Venezuelan government and that's about all of the relationship that has existed between them.
- logronoide 10y ago
  Actually Venezuela is the only country that hired them as 'consultants'. Consultant... nice word hiding how to finance a political party in Spain: http://www.politico.eu/article/podemos-pablo-iglesias-elections-spanish-establishments-nightmare-becoming-like-venezuela-hugo-chavez/ http://www.politico.eu/article/podemos-pablo-iglesias-electi...
  - Findeton 10y ago
    Actually, that's also a lie. First, Podemos didn't exist back then. Also, they were hired by many other latin american countries, and also by the EU.
Findeton 10y ago
No one in Spain is defending this model, that's a lie. BTW things started to go real bad after Hugo Chávez was dead and buried.

Can't believe there are populist parties in Spain defending this model and trying to import it.

danmaz74 10y ago

And Spain doesn't even have the oil Venezuela has...

adventured 10y ago
The most interesting thing about Venezuela's oil, is that by the time they could get around to extracting any meaningful volume (in proportion to the total), oil will have lost the majority of its demand. Venezuela has maybe 30 years tops to extract as much oil as they can before the bottom falls out. The odds are, they'll never see even a small fraction of that wealth extracted, it'll remain in the ground and the time of oil will pass.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  I don't know if the time of oil will pass this soon, we make plastics from it and it's still the best store of energy we know of (in terms of calories per unit of weight). Batteries are nowhere near.
  - adventured 10y ago
    You're referring to today. 30 years is a long time technologically. Especially given the extreme market pressure that is beginning in regards to electric vehicles and home + utility storage. You've no doubt seen the lithium storage to price curve and that's pathetic battery technology compared to what is ahead of us. Batteries will improve dramatically in all regards (battery skeptics previously universally failed to predict the lithium battery price plunge). My premise is that the majority of oil demand will be gone in 30 years or so, not all of it. Losing the automobile industry to electric (nothing can stop that over the coming 30 years) will cut oil demand in half globally without anything else changing. Venezuela is cursed with mediocre quality oil that isn't easily extracted, so they'll be the first losers as oil demand falls (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Russia as low cost producers will be the last standing and will fill that last 50% of the market that more slowly erodes).
    - aclsid 10y ago
      I think the oil companies would disagree with you. Even with electric cars and whatnot, look up the figures, oil consumption around the world just keeps increasing, and more to the point, some nations are running out of it, at least for exports. Venezuela still has a lot of light crude oil, and also the large heavy crude deposits, which is still cheaper to refine than shale oil for instance. The industry here still has not even touched all the offshore resources properly and it is mostly suffering from lack of investment, especially in exploration for new wells. And in the end, when all that is consumed we will probably turn to the uranium and God knows other minerals in the Amazon, instead of properly developing and diversifying the economy.

wooter 10y ago

Sanders praised it. As a Venezuelan in SF, I've had my fair share of arguments where I've had to defend the perspective that Venezuela isn't a socialist paradise. "These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?" - http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-gaps-disparities-that-threaten-america http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-g...

macspoofing 10y ago
GOP would have had a field day with Bernie had he been nominated instead of Clinton.
- tormeh 10y ago
  Just like the Democrats had a field day with Trump: Great entertainment, but the outcome wasn't all that fun. Bush would have been less fun, but he would have lost.
LordFrith 10y ago
In SF I keep seeing flyers titled "Can The Bolivarian Revolution be saved?", and I think to myself probably not.
- tim333 10y ago
  The Cuban revolution has lasted quite a while. Chavez and Maduro were big fans.
  - BurningFrog 10y ago
    The recent thawing of US/Cuban relations are a direct result of Venezuela not being able to afford their foreign aid to the Cuban government anymore.

pablovidal85 10y ago

Actually they don't defend this model. Some of their leading heads were hired as consultants by the Venezuelan government and that's about all of the relationship that has existed between them.

logronoide 10y ago
Actually Venezuela is the only country that hired them as 'consultants'. Consultant... nice word hiding how to finance a political party in Spain: http://www.politico.eu/article/podemos-pablo-iglesias-elections-spanish-establishments-nightmare-becoming-like-venezuela-hugo-chavez/ http://www.politico.eu/article/podemos-pablo-iglesias-electi...
- Findeton 10y ago
  Actually, that's also a lie. First, Podemos didn't exist back then. Also, they were hired by many other latin american countries, and also by the EU.

Findeton 10y ago

No one in Spain is defending this model, that's a lie. BTW things started to go real bad after Hugo Chávez was dead and buried.