6 ms·

UK to US is 15:70, no?

by lanna 10y ago

ptaipale 10y ago
Yes, approximately. Homicide per year per 100 000 people: U.K. 0.9 U.S. 3.9 Venezuela 62.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- vacri 10y ago
  To add a bit more perspective, the US is also an outlier amongst developed nations, who are almost all under 2.0. That 3.9 is not 'normal' (though it is something of an improvement on previous rates).
  - adventured 10y ago
    It's a lot more nuanced than that as well with the US. A very small portion of the US population lives in a location with a murder rate at 3.9 or higher, because murder in the US is hyper concentrated (a few areas of Chicago have more murder annually than all of Japan). People like to pretend the US is a wasteland of murder, when in fact the very extreme majority of people in the US live in areas with murder rates comparable to Canada.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      Is murder in other countries not concentrated? I can draw circles over a few areas in Japan and say "these areas here have 100% of murders, the rest of the country has a murder rate of zero".
      - jpatokal 10y ago
        Japan does not have anything even close to what would be considered a high-crime US neighborhood, and the little crime there is fairly even scattered around the country: https://www.japanimal.org/culture-crime-map.php https://www.japanimal.org/culture-crime-map.php Unsurprisingly bigger cities have (slightly) higher crime rates, with each of greater Tokyo, Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto, Nagoya and Fukuoka clearly visible.
      - adventured 10y ago
        If you step outside of the major US cities, the murder rate per capita plunges. That variance in the US is far beyond what you see in other developed nations (eg Britain, Sweden, Finland, France, Belgium, Germany, Japan, etc). It's so bad that if you just brought the three dozen worst urban sub-areas down to normal as compared to the rest of the city in question, you'd reduce the total US murder rate more than a full point.
        temp 10y ago
        >if you just brought the three dozen worst urban sub-areas down to normal as compared to the rest of the city in question, you'd reduce the total US murder rate more than a full point >three-dozen That seems like a lot of areas to say "just". If it's that easy to bring it down, do it in actuality rather than coming up with hypothetical scenarios where the US doesn't have such a high murder rate.
    - afterburner 10y ago
      Murder rates are always concentrated in certain areas, including all those other countries you're comparing to. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-... And if you're trying to argue urban areas are more dangerous, you're wrong. http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/ http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it... Remember, murder rates are per capita.
      - adventured 10y ago
        Of course urban areas are radically more dangerous when it comes to murder. The murder rates in US cities are drastically higher per capita than in rural and suburban areas, that isn't even remotely up for discussion, it's a fact that stretches back to the beginning of US data on murder. I'm not sure why you emphasize that murder rates are per capita, that proves the point you're trying to deny. The per capita murder rates in cities are far higher. The very high city per capita murder rates in the US are the reason the US murder rate is so high.
        vacri 10y ago
        The point being made is that you're cutting out the bad parts in the US in order to make the comparison, but not cutting out the bad parts in the comparitor. Rural murder rate in the US is less than combined rural + urban murder rate elsewhere? Quelle surprise. Similarly, by cutting out the urban parts of the US in your comparison, you're cutting out 70% of the US population.
        ptaipale 10y ago
        However, I don't think you need to cut out 70 % of the US population out to make a difference. More like 1-2 %? Take out some areas of St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago and a few other places, and the numbers look very different. Of course other countries also have their bad places, but I think the U.S. is much more split to good and bad areas than most developed nations.
kazinator 10y ago
Either 70/15 times lower rate, 15/70 times the rate; works either way.

UK to US is 15:70, no?

by lanna 10y ago

UK to US is 15:70, no?

Yes, approximately. Homicide per year per 100 000 people: U.K. 0.9 U.S. 3.9 Venezuela 62.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

vacri 10y ago
To add a bit more perspective, the US is also an outlier amongst developed nations, who are almost all under 2.0. That 3.9 is not 'normal' (though it is something of an improvement on previous rates).
- adventured 10y ago
  It's a lot more nuanced than that as well with the US. A very small portion of the US population lives in a location with a murder rate at 3.9 or higher, because murder in the US is hyper concentrated (a few areas of Chicago have more murder annually than all of Japan). People like to pretend the US is a wasteland of murder, when in fact the very extreme majority of people in the US live in areas with murder rates comparable to Canada.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Is murder in other countries not concentrated? I can draw circles over a few areas in Japan and say "these areas here have 100% of murders, the rest of the country has a murder rate of zero".
    - jpatokal 10y ago
      Japan does not have anything even close to what would be considered a high-crime US neighborhood, and the little crime there is fairly even scattered around the country: https://www.japanimal.org/culture-crime-map.php https://www.japanimal.org/culture-crime-map.php Unsurprisingly bigger cities have (slightly) higher crime rates, with each of greater Tokyo, Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto, Nagoya and Fukuoka clearly visible.
    - adventured 10y ago
      If you step outside of the major US cities, the murder rate per capita plunges. That variance in the US is far beyond what you see in other developed nations (eg Britain, Sweden, Finland, France, Belgium, Germany, Japan, etc). It's so bad that if you just brought the three dozen worst urban sub-areas down to normal as compared to the rest of the city in question, you'd reduce the total US murder rate more than a full point.
      - temp 10y ago
        >if you just brought the three dozen worst urban sub-areas down to normal as compared to the rest of the city in question, you'd reduce the total US murder rate more than a full point >three-dozen That seems like a lot of areas to say "just". If it's that easy to bring it down, do it in actuality rather than coming up with hypothetical scenarios where the US doesn't have such a high murder rate.
  - afterburner 10y ago
    Murder rates are always concentrated in certain areas, including all those other countries you're comparing to. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-... And if you're trying to argue urban areas are more dangerous, you're wrong. http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/ http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it... Remember, murder rates are per capita.
    - adventured 10y ago
      Of course urban areas are radically more dangerous when it comes to murder. The murder rates in US cities are drastically higher per capita than in rural and suburban areas, that isn't even remotely up for discussion, it's a fact that stretches back to the beginning of US data on murder. I'm not sure why you emphasize that murder rates are per capita, that proves the point you're trying to deny. The per capita murder rates in cities are far higher. The very high city per capita murder rates in the US are the reason the US murder rate is so high.
      - vacri 10y ago
        The point being made is that you're cutting out the bad parts in the US in order to make the comparison, but not cutting out the bad parts in the comparitor. Rural murder rate in the US is less than combined rural + urban murder rate elsewhere? Quelle surprise. Similarly, by cutting out the urban parts of the US in your comparison, you're cutting out 70% of the US population.
        ptaipale 10y ago
        However, I don't think you need to cut out 70 % of the US population out to make a difference. More like 1-2 %? Take out some areas of St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago and a few other places, and the numbers look very different. Of course other countries also have their bad places, but I think the U.S. is much more split to good and bad areas than most developed nations.

kazinator 10y ago

Either 70/15 times lower rate, 15/70 times the rate; works either way.