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I came here to point out the hypocrisy of condemning Facebook's censorship tool while at the same time demanding something be done about "hate speech" and "fake

I came here to point out the hypocrisy of condemning Facebook's censorship tool while at the same time demanding something be done about "hate speech" and "fake news". Apparently, it's only censorship when the others do it. When we do it, it's to promote love, freedom, democracy, and "safety".

will_pseudonym 10y ago
Exactly. To take the discussion to its logical (to me) conclusion, fake news is in the eyes of the beholder. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.j...
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  News can be objectively fake - that is made up or staged. But there are of course many subtleties between this and objective news. One has to know the specific bias of the reporter, editor and the owner.
akerro 10y ago
It's only a matter of time how long before that tool is used by any other "human-right-respecting" country, like UK or US.
Mikushi 10y ago
What hypocrisy? I reject both, many do. I legitimately hate most western values (I am French of German & Portuguese descent to give some context) for those reasons, hypocrisy central. When I hear the French PM talk about our values, I want to go and ask him about ravaging countries who have not asked for anything, about lying to the general population, about helping entities getting away with ravaging our planet, about helping regimes that are an open disgrace to these so called value. And also, where are our values when we support regimes such as the UK or US who are stomping on them on a daily basis. The only freedom western society tolerates is the freedom to agree with their views. There is an illusion of freedom and democracy, we are only allowed to operate and debate on a small spectrum, any deviation is squashed violently and incorporated in the next generation teachings to make sure we format proper citizen who support "our values" and don't go on a thinking spree.
- welly 10y ago
  I'm not sure the values you talk of can be described as "western values". The actions you talk of are those of western governments not of western people. While some of what you say I absolutely agree with, particularly "freedom western society tolerates is the freedom to agree with their views.", the actions of my current government (Australian) and the actions of the government in my home nation (the UK) are absolutely abhorrent and I certainly don't endorse their behaviour. But to be honest, are there values in any part of the world that are any better? There's certainly worse. Given a free choice of where I would choose to live, I'd pick western nations every single time, as while the behaviour of our governments is utterly disgusting, they do at the very least give its citizens freedom to behave mostly how we see fit and, to a degree, the freedom to affect change in government.
marcosdumay 10y ago
Well, personal support apart: - A democratic government making a transparent decision to censor something is different from a non-democratic one making the same decision internally in the case of fake news; - Censoring the presentation of something is completely different from censoring the information present on that speech in the case of hate speech. - Censorship done by a democratic government, using a transparent and fair judicial system, respecting other human rights is, again, very different from the same done by a secret court leading to capital punishment.

will_pseudonym 10y ago

Exactly. To take the discussion to its logical (to me) conclusion, fake news is in the eyes of the beholder. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.j...

eveningcoffee 10y ago
News can be objectively fake - that is made up or staged. But there are of course many subtleties between this and objective news. One has to know the specific bias of the reporter, editor and the owner.

akerro 10y ago

It's only a matter of time how long before that tool is used by any other "human-right-respecting" country, like UK or US.

Mikushi 10y ago

What hypocrisy? I reject both, many do. I legitimately hate most western values (I am French of German & Portuguese descent to give some context) for those reasons, hypocrisy central. When I hear the French PM talk about our values, I want to go and ask him about ravaging countries who have not asked for anything, about lying to the general population, about helping entities getting away with ravaging our planet, about helping regimes that are an open disgrace to these so called value. And also, where are our values when we support regimes such as the UK or US who are stomping on them on a daily basis. The only freedom western society tolerates is the freedom to agree with their views. There is an illusion of freedom and democracy, we are only allowed to operate and debate on a small spectrum, any deviation is squashed violently and incorporated in the next generation teachings to make sure we format proper citizen who support "our values" and don't go on a thinking spree.

welly 10y ago
I'm not sure the values you talk of can be described as "western values". The actions you talk of are those of western governments not of western people. While some of what you say I absolutely agree with, particularly "freedom western society tolerates is the freedom to agree with their views.", the actions of my current government (Australian) and the actions of the government in my home nation (the UK) are absolutely abhorrent and I certainly don't endorse their behaviour. But to be honest, are there values in any part of the world that are any better? There's certainly worse. Given a free choice of where I would choose to live, I'd pick western nations every single time, as while the behaviour of our governments is utterly disgusting, they do at the very least give its citizens freedom to behave mostly how we see fit and, to a degree, the freedom to affect change in government.

marcosdumay 10y ago

Well, personal support apart: - A democratic government making a transparent decision to censor something is different from a non-democratic one making the same decision internally in the case of fake news; - Censoring the presentation of something is completely different from censoring the information present on that speech in the case of hate speech. - Censorship done by a democratic government, using a transparent and fair judicial system, respecting other human rights is, again, very different from the same done by a secret court leading to capital punishment.