5 ms·

It's not just cheap oil. The real reason: it's part of our national character, especially post-1950. We don't care enough about close friendships to have them.

It's not just cheap oil. The real reason: it's part of our national character, especially post-1950. We don't care enough about close friendships to have them. We have an arrangement where everyone in the white-collar world is expected to live a lifestyle that makes sense only for the most ambitious-- 40-60+ hour work weeks, unpaid overtime, a social life based on weak ties ("networking"), and national job markets. This is fine for the most ambitious 0.1%, but it shouldn't be expected of the other 99.9% who will never be CEOs. Because we deny the reality of class, we're in a sort of perennial "gold rush" mentality. Look at the shitty houses built in suburbia, most of which will be falling to pieces in 30 years. Isn't this the same level of quality you'd expect in housing built one mile from a gold mine, on land that will be abandoned after the mine is exhausted? Europeans focus more on community and less on individual ambition because they know that most of them will never be CEOs. Oddly enough, virtually every study of social mobility has concluded that Europeans have at least as much social mobility as we do in all dimensions that matter. We sacrifice a lot more, and don't get much for the sacrifice.

enjo 16y ago
It's strange, because my experience is completely counter to that. I'm 30 years old. I live in a relatively dense urban neighborhood in Denver. I have many close friends that I see on at least a weekly basis and often much more often than that. My experience is very similar to the one studied in a great book: Urban Tribes - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 Maybe it's a generational thing? While the political and social structures have definitely changed (particularly with regards to church), the end result is very much the same. I think the 'Generation Y' (god I hate that term) is showing a very different attitude towards community than our parents did. They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods. They value their friendships and relationships more than the previous generation did. They're relying on those friendships much longer and postponing starting families. It really does seem to me that this generation is living gasp a much more European lifestyle than generations past. Having lived in Europe myself for several years, I can definitely see the similarities.
- jimbokun 16y ago
  "Maybe it's a generational thing? ... They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods." Maybe it is more an urban vs. suburban thing, more so than generational. Of course, younger people might be more urban and older people more suburban.
- pw0ncakes 16y ago
  I think, and I hope, that you're right. I was describing the behavior and mentality of the currently dominant generation and classes.
bergkampf 16y ago
I'm not sure what you base your statements about Europeans on. From my experience in both cultures, there is very little difference in this respect, except for the provision of greater societal safety nets in Europe.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
The problem with your theory is that we now work fewer hours than we did in the past. As of 1964, we worked on average 38.7 hours/week, as of 1999 we work only 34.5. Additionally, domestic labor has almost certainly decreased, thanks to modern conveniences like washing machines and dishwashers. Not sure where to get stats on that, however. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2000/07/art3full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2000/07/art3full.pdf
- gnosis 16y ago
  1999 was more than 10 years ago, and during the Internet boom, when the US economy was doing rather well and the country even had a budget surplus. I think you'll find Americans today are working much longer hours. That is if they're lucky enough to have a job at all.
CamperBob 16y ago
Isn't this the same level of quality you'd expect in housing built one mile from a gold mine That's a powerfully descriptive image, all right.

enjo 16y ago

It's strange, because my experience is completely counter to that. I'm 30 years old. I live in a relatively dense urban neighborhood in Denver. I have many close friends that I see on at least a weekly basis and often much more often than that. My experience is very similar to the one studied in a great book: Urban Tribes - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 Maybe it's a generational thing? While the political and social structures have definitely changed (particularly with regards to church), the end result is very much the same. I think the 'Generation Y' (god I hate that term) is showing a very different attitude towards community than our parents did. They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods. They value their friendships and relationships more than the previous generation did. They're relying on those friendships much longer and postponing starting families. It really does seem to me that this generation is living gasp a much more European lifestyle than generations past. Having lived in Europe myself for several years, I can definitely see the similarities.

jimbokun 16y ago
"Maybe it's a generational thing? ... They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods." Maybe it is more an urban vs. suburban thing, more so than generational. Of course, younger people might be more urban and older people more suburban.
pw0ncakes 16y ago
I think, and I hope, that you're right. I was describing the behavior and mentality of the currently dominant generation and classes.

bergkampf 16y ago

I'm not sure what you base your statements about Europeans on. From my experience in both cultures, there is very little difference in this respect, except for the provision of greater societal safety nets in Europe.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

The problem with your theory is that we now work fewer hours than we did in the past. As of 1964, we worked on average 38.7 hours/week, as of 1999 we work only 34.5. Additionally, domestic labor has almost certainly decreased, thanks to modern conveniences like washing machines and dishwashers. Not sure where to get stats on that, however. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2000/07/art3full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2000/07/art3full.pdf

gnosis 16y ago
1999 was more than 10 years ago, and during the Internet boom, when the US economy was doing rather well and the country even had a budget surplus. I think you'll find Americans today are working much longer hours. That is if they're lucky enough to have a job at all.

CamperBob 16y ago

Isn't this the same level of quality you'd expect in housing built one mile from a gold mine That's a powerfully descriptive image, all right.