3 ms·

I don't want Bing, though, I want Google. Ignoring the whole hacking incident, does Google pulling out of China actually improve the world in some way? I thin

by Zarel 10y ago

I don't want Bing, though, I want Google. Ignoring the whole hacking incident, does Google pulling out of China actually improve the world in some way? I think "giving customers as much of what they want as possible" is a morally good reason. On the other hand, I don't see any morally good reason for them to pull out of China, other than holier-than-thou moralizing?

fma 10y ago
Google is a public, profit making company. Can't really believe the "Do no evil" mantra. It was a financial decision to pull out. They were losing ground to Baidu and this allowed them to save face. It's like how Google shuts down every other product - it's not making profit.
- panarky 10y ago
  You can make a profit and do the right thing. Sometimes doing the right thing actually helps you make more profit. I'd guess that withdrawing from China was a net loser for Google overall, but in my case it strengthened my brand loyalty to Google.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Even if they stayed, they wouldn't have been allowed to win or are much business there. Baidu was the sanctioned champion, and had huge unfair advantages given them by the government (e.g. They were allowed to index lots of porn). It wasn't really a net loss given what we know today about China's protective policies.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
I improves the situation by letting china know that some American companies, at least, won't silently roll over and let the Chinese gov trample on any rights they want. And ya, I wish these stands would be made more often against the US government as well, but then we are comparing first world to third world problems. They made a reasonable call. It was said that Sergey Brin's first hand experience with oppressive authoritarian governments played a major role in their decision.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > I improves the situation by letting china know that some American companies, at least, won't silently roll over and let the Chinese gov trample on any rights they want Devil's advocate: how is that a material improvement besides making some people feel good? China wins (homegrown brands like Baidu), Google loses a market, Chinese Google users lose a search engine.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Taking a stand is useful. Before this happened, the whole world thought everything was "kind of ok" in China, and then Google just left, hinting at how the system was not well, the Chinese leadership lost serious face in the incident, rightfully so. And in China, face is almost everything.
    - taobility 10y ago
      But the fact is China or Chinese Government didn't lose anything. Meanwhile, after that they didn't stop blocking/censoring foreign websites. Meanwhile, there are lots of rumors Google want to return back to Chinese market by different ways.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        The Chinese government DID lose a lot in that incident, basically a lot of the goodwill they built up during the olympics, a good image in the west that basically disappeared over night. "Western Media Bias" wasn't really a thing between 2007 and 2010-11. China can block all the websites they want, the damage they do to their local internet industry is probably irreversible: they are unable to compete in even next door markets like Myanmar and Cambodia! On the one hand, they block the big western internet companies out of china, on the other hand, they give up the rest of the world. From the west's perspective, it is a reasonable tradeoff. Google IS mobile, even in China, Android is a big thing. I heard they want back in mobile; e.g. Android Play Store, they don't care about search in China, it isn't where the future is for that market anyways.

by Zarel 10y ago

fma 10y ago

Google is a public, profit making company. Can't really believe the "Do no evil" mantra. It was a financial decision to pull out. They were losing ground to Baidu and this allowed them to save face. It's like how Google shuts down every other product - it's not making profit.

panarky 10y ago
You can make a profit and do the right thing. Sometimes doing the right thing actually helps you make more profit. I'd guess that withdrawing from China was a net loser for Google overall, but in my case it strengthened my brand loyalty to Google.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Even if they stayed, they wouldn't have been allowed to win or are much business there. Baidu was the sanctioned champion, and had huge unfair advantages given them by the government (e.g. They were allowed to index lots of porn). It wasn't really a net loss given what we know today about China's protective policies.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

I improves the situation by letting china know that some American companies, at least, won't silently roll over and let the Chinese gov trample on any rights they want. And ya, I wish these stands would be made more often against the US government as well, but then we are comparing first world to third world problems. They made a reasonable call. It was said that Sergey Brin's first hand experience with oppressive authoritarian governments played a major role in their decision.

sangnoir 10y ago
> I improves the situation by letting china know that some American companies, at least, won't silently roll over and let the Chinese gov trample on any rights they want Devil's advocate: how is that a material improvement besides making some people feel good? China wins (homegrown brands like Baidu), Google loses a market, Chinese Google users lose a search engine.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Taking a stand is useful. Before this happened, the whole world thought everything was "kind of ok" in China, and then Google just left, hinting at how the system was not well, the Chinese leadership lost serious face in the incident, rightfully so. And in China, face is almost everything.
  - taobility 10y ago
    But the fact is China or Chinese Government didn't lose anything. Meanwhile, after that they didn't stop blocking/censoring foreign websites. Meanwhile, there are lots of rumors Google want to return back to Chinese market by different ways.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      The Chinese government DID lose a lot in that incident, basically a lot of the goodwill they built up during the olympics, a good image in the west that basically disappeared over night. "Western Media Bias" wasn't really a thing between 2007 and 2010-11. China can block all the websites they want, the damage they do to their local internet industry is probably irreversible: they are unable to compete in even next door markets like Myanmar and Cambodia! On the one hand, they block the big western internet companies out of china, on the other hand, they give up the rest of the world. From the west's perspective, it is a reasonable tradeoff. Google IS mobile, even in China, Android is a big thing. I heard they want back in mobile; e.g. Android Play Store, they don't care about search in China, it isn't where the future is for that market anyways.