6 ms·

The Surprising Reason Why Americans Are So Lonely

90 points by haidut 16y ago

jbarciauskas 16y ago
I stopped reading at "And they've paid equal, or even greater, attention to suburbia; in the developed world, after all, that's where most people live." I don't think this is true. Google failed me but according to http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-_box_head_nbr=GCT-P1&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-format=US-1 http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-geo... ), the plurality of people in the US live in "urban, urbanized area, central place" (39%), as opposed to "not in a central place" (29%) or "rural" (21%). And my experience is that the US is much more suburban than the rest of the developed world, Europe particularly. Seems a very odd thing to say. Turns out, most people actually live in cities, and have jobs other than writing this kind of nonsense.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  If you stopped reading there, you completely missed the meat of the article, it wasn't about suburbia at all, it was about getting the size of businesses right.
- natrius 16y ago
  I'd be wary of trying to equate technical census terms with common definitions of related terms without citing their explanations. Both "urbanized area" and "not in a central place" probably don't exclude suburban areas.
robak 16y ago
Nah, the truth is that Americans don't have time to have family, friends and neighbours. This is what happens when you have mortgage, car payment, insurance premium, college debt, this debt and that debt. Americans are too busy being slaves to their banks to do anything else than work.
gizmo 16y ago
The conclusion of the article is (and I paraphrase) that Americans are so lonely because they don't gossip anymore while shopping. I'm not buying that. It wouldn't surprise me if the opposite were true: that by buying everything from the internet you save time you would otherwise spend in shopping malls... which you can then invest in meaningful (real life) relationships instead.
- lutorm 16y ago
  The conclusion of the article was that people don't need to meet people anymore to go about their life. The question is if the time saved by shopping online (if any, while it may be more efficient, there's also much more data you can potentially peruse in deciding your purchases), or in the supermarket, is actually invested in cultivating relationships or if it goes into more hours working, for example.
  - gizmo 16y ago
    Right, but my point is that even if you interact with people while shopping it doesn't lead to meaningful relationships, so I think the "correct" choice is to shop in whichever way is most time efficient. What you end up doing with the time you save is up to you of course. But no amount of shopping is going to compensate for a lack of friends and family.
    - enjo 16y ago
      I think you're completely correct. This is really a suburban issue more than anything else. Think about suburbs: () Each part of your existence is cordoned off into unique zones. There is the work zone, the shopping zone, and the home zone. () None of these 'zones' are close enough together to walk. So you get into your car (with tinted windows!) and drive from zone to zone. () Your house has a big fence (it's a 'privacy fence'). () Your house is huge. So big that you have rooms dedicated to things like excercise and 'media'. You don't have to leave your house...ever! You can excercise at home. No need to go to the movies. That gourmet kitchen can feed 200... () Look at your street. In suburbia the streets are curvy and twisting... why? Go stand out on your front sidewalk. Notice how when the street twists it looks like you only have a handful of neighbors? That's why... () That subdivision has a name. I bet it's something ranch, or something glades or some other name designed to make you think you're living far out in the country away from everything (a great post on the subject: http://denverinfill.com/blog/2006/09/guide-to-suburban-denver-subdivision.html http://denverinfill.com/blog/2006/09/guide-to-suburban-denve...) Everything about suburban life is designed to isolate. You drive in your tinted car to the giant grocery store. You nod at the cashier, hurry back to your car and drive home. You park as close to the store as you can. You'll find that folks in suburban areas are obsessed with security. That's what their being sold. 'Come live here and you'll be so isolated no one can ever do anything bad to you ever!!'. Of course the cynic in me takes a trip back to the 60's and hears 'Come live here and you'll be so isolated you'll never have to deal with those black people in the cit...ever!!' So ya... living in that environment you're bound to be unhappy. I've done that. I've lived it. It sucked. Contrast that with my current situation: () Small house with a small fence. () Nice front porch () Streets on the city grid. () Grocery store is a 5 minute walk away () (lots of) Restaurants, shops, and parks are all within walking distance () My wife and I own one car, but we almost never use it. Our bikes get us around quite nicely. () We both take public transit daily. It's amazing. When we're walking or riding the bus we are nearly constantly interacting with other human beings. Walking down the road we'll meet new folks and pet their dog. More than once we've invited folks inside for a drink... It's really a pleasant way to live. I'm sure that we're statistically slightly less safe (our house was broken into once, and cars are occasionally robbed on our street) but we're 100% more happy. I've noticed that the kids in the neighborhood (and there are a LOT) are also much better adjusted and well socialized as well. When we lived in the suburbs it became comical. We had tons of trouble finding places to eat. We'd go to $30/plate restaurants that would still have kids running around like it was Chuck-E-Cheese. I really think that the lack of daily socialization breeds a child that is fundamentally self-interested. Urban kids do much better. Sure we've had the occasional problem... but it's been far less frequent. It just seems like a more natural and overall better way to live.
bmm6o 16y ago
"The page you were looking for doesn't exist. You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved." Wow, that's pretty zen.
- Volscio 16y ago
  Here's the non-scraped link: http://www.alternet.org/vision/146623/the_surprising_reason_why_americans_are_so_lonely,_and_why_future_prosperity_means_socializing_with_your_neighbors http://www.alternet.org/vision/146623/the_surprising_reason_... And reddit comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bwsm2/ http://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bwsm2/
edw519 16y ago
Every house on the street I grew up on had a front porch and 4 to 6 people living in it. Everyone knew everyone and we did everything together. There was no organized sports; if you wanted to play you just went in the middle of the street and in 5 minutes there were 10 other kids. If you wanted to take a shortcut, you just cut though people's yards; no one had a fence. Every one of my parent's 14 siblings and my 32 first cousins lived within 10 miles. We all saw each other at least once per week. Our mailman cut our hair, our dry cleaner picked up and delivered, our principal was also manager of the local swimming pool, and we worshipped in our neighbor's basement. We knew the names of every police officer, fireman, cashier, clerk, waitress, gardner, and handyman in our neighborhood. If you ever needed anything, someone knew someone else who could help you. We didn't have google, cell phones, or cable TV; we had lots of other people in our lives all the time. In college, I lived with 35 others in a fraternity house. We didn't do a whole lot of planning. There was always someone around to do stuff with. Today, I don't know the name of a single neighbor. I don't remember the last time I lived in a house without a fence in back or with a porch in front. My nearest relative lives 1000 miles away. I know the names of exactly 2 waitresses; guess where I eat out all the time? Loneliness probably has more to do with the proximity of people in your life than all these other "factors". I don't know when things changed, but they sure have. Anyone with experiences similar to mine?
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  It was mostly the same with me. We attended a church 400 yards from my house. All the neighbors did as well. The neighborhood was like a family -- if you needed a glass of water you just went in the kitchen of the closest house and got one. Nobody locked their doors because everybody knew everybody and somebody was always around checking on what was going on. Kids played outside until dark, and sometimes later, without much parental supervision. Everybody knew that everybody else was looking out for the kids. That's how I thought everybody grew up. My dad died and my mom remarried and moved off to a retirement community in Florida. They have about 1200 units which are mostly full in the winter. Everybody attends the same church, everybody participates in the same activities, everybody sits out on their porch in the evening. You're never bored because somebody is always coming by and either talking to you or asking you to participate in something. If somebody has a problem going to the store, other people drive them. If somebody has a problem cooking their meals, neighbors pitch in and help them out. When my mom died last month, there were a thousand people at her memorial service. The line of people coming by to give me a hug, cry, and offer their condolences took almost an hour. These were people who had kids and grandkids off all over the world, but for them the people in the park were their family. There is something in that experience that I want, especially as I grow older. We all spend a lot of time plugged in and wired up, but we seem to have forgotten how to sit on the porch as the sun goes down and have a good heart-to-heart talk about our lives and values. As cool as technology has become, we're missing something very important.
LiveTheDream 16y ago
Interesting to see a VC firm whose goal is 3-4% returns instead of 20% returns.
johnohara 16y ago
This article taught me about the problems of a small diner in Vermont and its quest to find a local pork producer raising 300-500 pigs per year. Along the way I read some comments about suburbia and learned the diner had a jukebox that played the music of local artists. Still can't tell you why Americans are so lonely.
- Periodic 16y ago
  I got the same impression. The article felt like two articles hastily joined in the middle. The first was some musing on the loneliness and disconnected lives Americans now lead, with some unsupported thoughts as to why. Then it launched into a description of the problems of a local diner owner. The article was heavy on the heartstrings, light on the facts.
- drinian 16y ago
  Bingo -- my parents' street, which is comprised mostly of successful professionals with post-graduate education who work full-time jobs, has excellent community spirit. It's pretty much a given that any Friday evening with warm weather, most of the adults and kids on the street will be outside having a shared meal, talking about their weeks, and so on. They call it "Firepit Fridays," and it's apparently inspired other streets in the neighborhood. My cousins live about a mile away, and have had similar success after installing a big front porch. It's not "energy independence," or anything like that, it simply takes an effort to get these things started, and keep them going. And you have to like your neighbors; having a front porch doesn't hurt, either.
pw0ncakes 16y ago
It's not just cheap oil. The real reason: it's part of our national character, especially post-1950. We don't care enough about close friendships to have them. We have an arrangement where everyone in the white-collar world is expected to live a lifestyle that makes sense only for the most ambitious-- 40-60+ hour work weeks, unpaid overtime, a social life based on weak ties ("networking"), and national job markets. This is fine for the most ambitious 0.1%, but it shouldn't be expected of the other 99.9% who will never be CEOs. Because we deny the reality of class, we're in a sort of perennial "gold rush" mentality. Look at the shitty houses built in suburbia, most of which will be falling to pieces in 30 years. Isn't this the same level of quality you'd expect in housing built one mile from a gold mine, on land that will be abandoned after the mine is exhausted? Europeans focus more on community and less on individual ambition because they know that most of them will never be CEOs. Oddly enough, virtually every study of social mobility has concluded that Europeans have at least as much social mobility as we do in all dimensions that matter. We sacrifice a lot more, and don't get much for the sacrifice.
- enjo 16y ago
  It's strange, because my experience is completely counter to that. I'm 30 years old. I live in a relatively dense urban neighborhood in Denver. I have many close friends that I see on at least a weekly basis and often much more often than that. My experience is very similar to the one studied in a great book: Urban Tribes - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 Maybe it's a generational thing? While the political and social structures have definitely changed (particularly with regards to church), the end result is very much the same. I think the 'Generation Y' (god I hate that term) is showing a very different attitude towards community than our parents did. They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods. They value their friendships and relationships more than the previous generation did. They're relying on those friendships much longer and postponing starting families. It really does seem to me that this generation is living gasp a much more European lifestyle than generations past. Having lived in Europe myself for several years, I can definitely see the similarities.
  - jimbokun 16y ago
code_duck 16y ago
I don't think it was the fault of "cheap energy". Oil and motor companies designed our cities to be the way there are, killed dense downtown living areas and public transportation, on purpose. So, the demise of community sociality is squarely their fault, a victim of capitalism and the political influence of money.
jamesbritt 16y ago
Are Americans so lonely? The article doesn't seem to establish that. There's a reference to a book, and an assertion, but since I'm not going to read that before I read the article, it doesn't help. Saying that people have fewer friends or neighbours doesn't equate to being more lonely. People may have richer lives with less face-to-face contact because they can now interact with people who are more in tune with their beliefs and dreams. It doesn't help to have lots of neighbours if all of them think you're just that weird goth kid. But if you can share a virtual space with thousands of other weird goth kids, you may be better off, and less lonely.
tarkin2 16y ago
I recall the article written by the lady who put her son on the New York underground. The media berated her because they were sure other people would do something bad to him. I often think this lack of trust, paranoia and fear separates us--leads to loneliness.
zeynel1 16y ago
The hero of Sartre's Nausea says on page 6 "I live alone, entirely alone. I never speak to anyone, never; I receive nothing, I give nothing...." http://books.google.com/books?id=dbCJ40j7t1sC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sartre&cd=2#v=onepage&q=alone&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=dbCJ40j7t1sC&printsec=f... That was written in 1938. Probably he was alone by choice (not lonely). Now we are alone (lonely) because technology forces us to be alone?
bmm6o 16y ago
Anyone interested in this topic should read "Bowling Alone". It's pretty scholarly but very readable.
metamemetics 16y ago
The real reason why Americans are lonely is simply because they stay at home. Rather than living and working out of cafes and pubs. Doesn't matter whether its the suburb or city. Compare this to somewhere like Spain where they even take their children to bars with them.
InclinedPlane 16y ago
I have a car, access to public transit, a cell phone, and the internet. I can choose to socialize with the people I choose to, rather than the people who are spatially closest to me through mere happenstance. I don't know my neighbors much nor do I need to. I have plenty of friends and I am not at all lonely. I doubt my story is unique in the western world.
fauigerzigerk 16y ago
It seems about once every 20 years or so there's a new wave of this small is beautiful, re-localization, grow your own food or die idea. Maybe every generation has to go through that phase before realizing that we're never going to go back to anything resembling our countryside village past. And I'm glad we won't. It's all based on the idea that we're running out of traditional sources of energy so quickly that we won't be able to innovate ourselves out of it. I don't believe that for a second. It's wishful thinking by people who will latch on to any difficulty to make that same argument over and over again. There are huge amounts of natural gas left and we have nuclear. I don't see why that wouldn't be sufficient for a smooth transition to more wind and solar to save us from the horrible prospect of the stifling, oppressive horror that was the village.
vishaldpatel 16y ago
I wonder how many of us complainers about how we're all disconnected actually try to a) go out an make friends, b) do something for others in the neighborhood, c) basically get off our asses (and the internets) and go interact and be a part of the community.
petercooper 16y ago
This is by no means a solely American phenomenon. The article could be as easily describing modern urban and suburban Britain to a tee.
Tichy 16y ago
"Not the kind of money that's looking for a 20 percent annual gain; when that happens, everything but return gets pushed aside. What Tasch has in mind is a consistent, sound, 3 or 4 percent return" Is 20% all that much? The way I see it, one has to strive for gains to compensate for losses (in bad years). I am pretty sure 3% gain is not enough to compensate for losses. In the worst case, your product becomes obsolete from one year to the next. Happy if you had some healthy years and can invest in creating a new product. I am all for cosy countryside romanticism, I just don't understand why bad economics have to be part of the equation.
- gaius 16y ago
  3-4% won't keep you ahead of inflation.
greenlblue 16y ago
Certainly the abundance of anonymous services and goods takes out a lot of the enjoyable social aspects of those things but it also makes many other things possible. I don't think there has ever been a time in history like this one where the barriers to entry to whatever you can imagine have been so low.

90 points by haidut 16y ago

I stopped reading at "And they've paid equal, or even greater, attention to suburbia; in the developed world, after all, that's where most people live." I don't think this is true. Google failed me but according to http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-_box_head_nbr=GCT-P1&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-format=US-1 http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-geo... ), the plurality of people in the US live in "urban, urbanized area, central place" (39%), as opposed to "not in a central place" (29%) or "rural" (21%). And my experience is that the US is much more suburban than the rest of the developed world, Europe particularly. Seems a very odd thing to say. Turns out, most people actually live in cities, and have jobs other than writing this kind of nonsense.

henrikschroder 16y ago
If you stopped reading there, you completely missed the meat of the article, it wasn't about suburbia at all, it was about getting the size of businesses right.
natrius 16y ago
I'd be wary of trying to equate technical census terms with common definitions of related terms without citing their explanations. Both "urbanized area" and "not in a central place" probably don't exclude suburban areas.

robak 16y ago

Nah, the truth is that Americans don't have time to have family, friends and neighbours. This is what happens when you have mortgage, car payment, insurance premium, college debt, this debt and that debt. Americans are too busy being slaves to their banks to do anything else than work.

gizmo 16y ago

The conclusion of the article is (and I paraphrase) that Americans are so lonely because they don't gossip anymore while shopping. I'm not buying that. It wouldn't surprise me if the opposite were true: that by buying everything from the internet you save time you would otherwise spend in shopping malls... which you can then invest in meaningful (real life) relationships instead.

lutorm 16y ago
The conclusion of the article was that people don't need to meet people anymore to go about their life. The question is if the time saved by shopping online (if any, while it may be more efficient, there's also much more data you can potentially peruse in deciding your purchases), or in the supermarket, is actually invested in cultivating relationships or if it goes into more hours working, for example.
- gizmo 16y ago
  Right, but my point is that even if you interact with people while shopping it doesn't lead to meaningful relationships, so I think the "correct" choice is to shop in whichever way is most time efficient. What you end up doing with the time you save is up to you of course. But no amount of shopping is going to compensate for a lack of friends and family.
  - enjo 16y ago
    I think you're completely correct. This is really a suburban issue more than anything else. Think about suburbs: () Each part of your existence is cordoned off into unique zones. There is the work zone, the shopping zone, and the home zone. () None of these 'zones' are close enough together to walk. So you get into your car (with tinted windows!) and drive from zone to zone. () Your house has a big fence (it's a 'privacy fence'). () Your house is huge. So big that you have rooms dedicated to things like excercise and 'media'. You don't have to leave your house...ever! You can excercise at home. No need to go to the movies. That gourmet kitchen can feed 200... () Look at your street. In suburbia the streets are curvy and twisting... why? Go stand out on your front sidewalk. Notice how when the street twists it looks like you only have a handful of neighbors? That's why... () That subdivision has a name. I bet it's something ranch, or something glades or some other name designed to make you think you're living far out in the country away from everything (a great post on the subject: http://denverinfill.com/blog/2006/09/guide-to-suburban-denver-subdivision.html http://denverinfill.com/blog/2006/09/guide-to-suburban-denve...) Everything about suburban life is designed to isolate. You drive in your tinted car to the giant grocery store. You nod at the cashier, hurry back to your car and drive home. You park as close to the store as you can. You'll find that folks in suburban areas are obsessed with security. That's what their being sold. 'Come live here and you'll be so isolated no one can ever do anything bad to you ever!!'. Of course the cynic in me takes a trip back to the 60's and hears 'Come live here and you'll be so isolated you'll never have to deal with those black people in the cit...ever!!' So ya... living in that environment you're bound to be unhappy. I've done that. I've lived it. It sucked. Contrast that with my current situation: () Small house with a small fence. () Nice front porch () Streets on the city grid. () Grocery store is a 5 minute walk away () (lots of) Restaurants, shops, and parks are all within walking distance () My wife and I own one car, but we almost never use it. Our bikes get us around quite nicely. () We both take public transit daily. It's amazing. When we're walking or riding the bus we are nearly constantly interacting with other human beings. Walking down the road we'll meet new folks and pet their dog. More than once we've invited folks inside for a drink... It's really a pleasant way to live. I'm sure that we're statistically slightly less safe (our house was broken into once, and cars are occasionally robbed on our street) but we're 100% more happy. I've noticed that the kids in the neighborhood (and there are a LOT) are also much better adjusted and well socialized as well. When we lived in the suburbs it became comical. We had tons of trouble finding places to eat. We'd go to $30/plate restaurants that would still have kids running around like it was Chuck-E-Cheese. I really think that the lack of daily socialization breeds a child that is fundamentally self-interested. Urban kids do much better. Sure we've had the occasional problem... but it's been far less frequent. It just seems like a more natural and overall better way to live.

bmm6o 16y ago

"The page you were looking for doesn't exist. You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved." Wow, that's pretty zen.

Volscio 16y ago
Here's the non-scraped link: http://www.alternet.org/vision/146623/the_surprising_reason_why_americans_are_so_lonely,_and_why_future_prosperity_means_socializing_with_your_neighbors http://www.alternet.org/vision/146623/the_surprising_reason_... And reddit comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bwsm2/ http://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bwsm2/

edw519 16y ago

Every house on the street I grew up on had a front porch and 4 to 6 people living in it. Everyone knew everyone and we did everything together. There was no organized sports; if you wanted to play you just went in the middle of the street and in 5 minutes there were 10 other kids. If you wanted to take a shortcut, you just cut though people's yards; no one had a fence. Every one of my parent's 14 siblings and my 32 first cousins lived within 10 miles. We all saw each other at least once per week. Our mailman cut our hair, our dry cleaner picked up and delivered, our principal was also manager of the local swimming pool, and we worshipped in our neighbor's basement. We knew the names of every police officer, fireman, cashier, clerk, waitress, gardner, and handyman in our neighborhood. If you ever needed anything, someone knew someone else who could help you. We didn't have google, cell phones, or cable TV; we had lots of other people in our lives all the time. In college, I lived with 35 others in a fraternity house. We didn't do a whole lot of planning. There was always someone around to do stuff with. Today, I don't know the name of a single neighbor. I don't remember the last time I lived in a house without a fence in back or with a porch in front. My nearest relative lives 1000 miles away. I know the names of exactly 2 waitresses; guess where I eat out all the time? Loneliness probably has more to do with the proximity of people in your life than all these other "factors". I don't know when things changed, but they sure have. Anyone with experiences similar to mine?

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
It was mostly the same with me. We attended a church 400 yards from my house. All the neighbors did as well. The neighborhood was like a family -- if you needed a glass of water you just went in the kitchen of the closest house and got one. Nobody locked their doors because everybody knew everybody and somebody was always around checking on what was going on. Kids played outside until dark, and sometimes later, without much parental supervision. Everybody knew that everybody else was looking out for the kids. That's how I thought everybody grew up. My dad died and my mom remarried and moved off to a retirement community in Florida. They have about 1200 units which are mostly full in the winter. Everybody attends the same church, everybody participates in the same activities, everybody sits out on their porch in the evening. You're never bored because somebody is always coming by and either talking to you or asking you to participate in something. If somebody has a problem going to the store, other people drive them. If somebody has a problem cooking their meals, neighbors pitch in and help them out. When my mom died last month, there were a thousand people at her memorial service. The line of people coming by to give me a hug, cry, and offer their condolences took almost an hour. These were people who had kids and grandkids off all over the world, but for them the people in the park were their family. There is something in that experience that I want, especially as I grow older. We all spend a lot of time plugged in and wired up, but we seem to have forgotten how to sit on the porch as the sun goes down and have a good heart-to-heart talk about our lives and values. As cool as technology has become, we're missing something very important.

LiveTheDream 16y ago

Interesting to see a VC firm whose goal is 3-4% returns instead of 20% returns.

johnohara 16y ago

This article taught me about the problems of a small diner in Vermont and its quest to find a local pork producer raising 300-500 pigs per year. Along the way I read some comments about suburbia and learned the diner had a jukebox that played the music of local artists. Still can't tell you why Americans are so lonely.

Periodic 16y ago
I got the same impression. The article felt like two articles hastily joined in the middle. The first was some musing on the loneliness and disconnected lives Americans now lead, with some unsupported thoughts as to why. Then it launched into a description of the problems of a local diner owner. The article was heavy on the heartstrings, light on the facts.
drinian 16y ago
Bingo -- my parents' street, which is comprised mostly of successful professionals with post-graduate education who work full-time jobs, has excellent community spirit. It's pretty much a given that any Friday evening with warm weather, most of the adults and kids on the street will be outside having a shared meal, talking about their weeks, and so on. They call it "Firepit Fridays," and it's apparently inspired other streets in the neighborhood. My cousins live about a mile away, and have had similar success after installing a big front porch. It's not "energy independence," or anything like that, it simply takes an effort to get these things started, and keep them going. And you have to like your neighbors; having a front porch doesn't hurt, either.

pw0ncakes 16y ago

It's not just cheap oil. The real reason: it's part of our national character, especially post-1950. We don't care enough about close friendships to have them. We have an arrangement where everyone in the white-collar world is expected to live a lifestyle that makes sense only for the most ambitious-- 40-60+ hour work weeks, unpaid overtime, a social life based on weak ties ("networking"), and national job markets. This is fine for the most ambitious 0.1%, but it shouldn't be expected of the other 99.9% who will never be CEOs. Because we deny the reality of class, we're in a sort of perennial "gold rush" mentality. Look at the shitty houses built in suburbia, most of which will be falling to pieces in 30 years. Isn't this the same level of quality you'd expect in housing built one mile from a gold mine, on land that will be abandoned after the mine is exhausted? Europeans focus more on community and less on individual ambition because they know that most of them will never be CEOs. Oddly enough, virtually every study of social mobility has concluded that Europeans have at least as much social mobility as we do in all dimensions that matter. We sacrifice a lot more, and don't get much for the sacrifice.

enjo 16y ago
It's strange, because my experience is completely counter to that. I'm 30 years old. I live in a relatively dense urban neighborhood in Denver. I have many close friends that I see on at least a weekly basis and often much more often than that. My experience is very similar to the one studied in a great book: Urban Tribes - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582342644 Maybe it's a generational thing? While the political and social structures have definitely changed (particularly with regards to church), the end result is very much the same. I think the 'Generation Y' (god I hate that term) is showing a very different attitude towards community than our parents did. They're (we're?) settling into more urban neighborhoods. They value their friendships and relationships more than the previous generation did. They're relying on those friendships much longer and postponing starting families. It really does seem to me that this generation is living gasp a much more European lifestyle than generations past. Having lived in Europe myself for several years, I can definitely see the similarities.
- jimbokun 16y ago

code_duck 16y ago

I don't think it was the fault of "cheap energy". Oil and motor companies designed our cities to be the way there are, killed dense downtown living areas and public transportation, on purpose. So, the demise of community sociality is squarely their fault, a victim of capitalism and the political influence of money.

jamesbritt 16y ago

Are Americans so lonely? The article doesn't seem to establish that. There's a reference to a book, and an assertion, but since I'm not going to read that before I read the article, it doesn't help. Saying that people have fewer friends or neighbours doesn't equate to being more lonely. People may have richer lives with less face-to-face contact because they can now interact with people who are more in tune with their beliefs and dreams. It doesn't help to have lots of neighbours if all of them think you're just that weird goth kid. But if you can share a virtual space with thousands of other weird goth kids, you may be better off, and less lonely.

tarkin2 16y ago

I recall the article written by the lady who put her son on the New York underground. The media berated her because they were sure other people would do something bad to him. I often think this lack of trust, paranoia and fear separates us--leads to loneliness.

zeynel1 16y ago

The hero of Sartre's Nausea says on page 6 "I live alone, entirely alone. I never speak to anyone, never; I receive nothing, I give nothing...." http://books.google.com/books?id=dbCJ40j7t1sC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sartre&cd=2#v=onepage&q=alone&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=dbCJ40j7t1sC&printsec=f... That was written in 1938. Probably he was alone by choice (not lonely). Now we are alone (lonely) because technology forces us to be alone?

bmm6o 16y ago

Anyone interested in this topic should read "Bowling Alone". It's pretty scholarly but very readable.

metamemetics 16y ago

The real reason why Americans are lonely is simply because they stay at home. Rather than living and working out of cafes and pubs. Doesn't matter whether its the suburb or city. Compare this to somewhere like Spain where they even take their children to bars with them.

InclinedPlane 16y ago

I have a car, access to public transit, a cell phone, and the internet. I can choose to socialize with the people I choose to, rather than the people who are spatially closest to me through mere happenstance. I don't know my neighbors much nor do I need to. I have plenty of friends and I am not at all lonely. I doubt my story is unique in the western world.

fauigerzigerk 16y ago

It seems about once every 20 years or so there's a new wave of this small is beautiful, re-localization, grow your own food or die idea. Maybe every generation has to go through that phase before realizing that we're never going to go back to anything resembling our countryside village past. And I'm glad we won't. It's all based on the idea that we're running out of traditional sources of energy so quickly that we won't be able to innovate ourselves out of it. I don't believe that for a second. It's wishful thinking by people who will latch on to any difficulty to make that same argument over and over again. There are huge amounts of natural gas left and we have nuclear. I don't see why that wouldn't be sufficient for a smooth transition to more wind and solar to save us from the horrible prospect of the stifling, oppressive horror that was the village.

vishaldpatel 16y ago

I wonder how many of us complainers about how we're all disconnected actually try to a) go out an make friends, b) do something for others in the neighborhood, c) basically get off our asses (and the internets) and go interact and be a part of the community.

petercooper 16y ago

This is by no means a solely American phenomenon. The article could be as easily describing modern urban and suburban Britain to a tee.

Tichy 16y ago

"Not the kind of money that's looking for a 20 percent annual gain; when that happens, everything but return gets pushed aside. What Tasch has in mind is a consistent, sound, 3 or 4 percent return" Is 20% all that much? The way I see it, one has to strive for gains to compensate for losses (in bad years). I am pretty sure 3% gain is not enough to compensate for losses. In the worst case, your product becomes obsolete from one year to the next. Happy if you had some healthy years and can invest in creating a new product. I am all for cosy countryside romanticism, I just don't understand why bad economics have to be part of the equation.

gaius 16y ago
3-4% won't keep you ahead of inflation.

greenlblue 16y ago

Certainly the abundance of anonymous services and goods takes out a lot of the enjoyable social aspects of those things but it also makes many other things possible. I don't think there has ever been a time in history like this one where the barriers to entry to whatever you can imagine have been so low.