4 ms·

Do you have personal football team experience? And is this american football or European futball? Because most american people I know in football, know their E

Do you have personal football team experience? And is this american football or European futball? Because most american people I know in football, know their EXACT role. Mr. Offensive lineman - I smash whoever is in front of me. If the play is to the left, I smash left. If the play is to the right, I smash right. They know nothing about defense. They know nothing about receiver routes. They don't care. They stand up and smash people. The QUARTERBACK knows a bunch. But he also has a headset on, with 3 people feeding him tips for each play. It would be like a PM coming by every 5 minutes and telling you that you should use a Dictionary to store the current data, and then on the next problem you should maybe look into an ArrayList. Basically.. football is a terrible analogy to software development.

the-dude 10y ago
Maybe it is lost in translation and he meant soccer?
- sqeaky 10y ago
  If is about it still works pretty well. Stupid top-down deadlines are different than the effective communication the QB gets. And a dev team does need effective communication.
- ralmeida 10y ago
  Unlikely, since in soccer the sentence "I will run X yards" doesn't fit.
wnevets 10y ago
>Because most american people I know in football, know their EXACT role. Mr. Offensive lineman - I smash whoever is in front of me. If the play is to the left, I smash left. If the play is to the right, I smash right. They know nothing about defense. They know nothing about receiver routes. They don't care. They stand up and smash people. That's a very oversimplification of american football. For a basic example even the "dumb" offensive lineman has to play differently whether it's a run or a pass. A more complicated play like a screen will require a lot of coordination with his other teammates to perform correctly. American football is actually a pretty good analogy for a the typical development team and the different roles an offense has. You have people in the trenches, people doing flashy stuff and a field general trying to tie it all together.
dpark 10y ago
> Because most american people I know in football, know their EXACT role. The comment you're replying to says this specifically. > Mr. Offensive lineman - I smash whoever is in front of me. If the play is to the left, I smash left. This is an oversimplification and if this is all the offensive lineman does, he'll be rapidly out of a job. The linemen are constantly adjusting to deal with the defense. They'll hold to avoid a big sack. They'll leap on the ball when there's a fumble. They'll block someone else if needed. It's not smash left and done. > It would be like a PM coming by every 5 minutes and telling you that you should use a Dictionary to store the current data, and then on the next problem you should maybe look into an ArrayList. I think it would be a lot more like management saying "we need you to build product X" and then expecting the QB to deliver. The QB isn't just running plays by rote.
jsight 10y ago
I think that a lot of what you are saying is only true if you don't understand American football all that well. Blocking schemes are far more complex than just "smash whoever is in front". WR's run much more complex routes than just a single route as well (option routes depending upon the coverage and coverage technique). His analogy is limited (as all analogies are, at some level), but it works for its intended purpose, IMO.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
  > His analogy is limited (as all analogies are, at some level) Like a leaky bucket. Edit: Some analogies are nearly perfect. Maybe he just needs to find a better one.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
But if it's a pass, and it's a three-step drop throwing a quick out, the tackle (offensive lineman on the outside) wants to guide the rusher to the inside in order to keep him out of the path of the ball (which will be a fairly flat throw, and therefore perhaps within reach of the defensive lineman). So in that case, yes, the offensive lineman has to know what the receiver route is, and to react accordingly.
dpeck 10y ago
Offensive lineman have to know a ton about the play being run, whether they should pull left or right, who he's responsible for blocking, if he should drive block the man up or chip and work to get in front of a linebacker, etc. Receivers have to be on the same page as the qb as to what is getting done and how they'll adjust based on coverage. Running backs usually don't have to do a lot of thinking, they're more reactive, initial responsibilities and steps set but changes quickly as the play develops. Thats not to say anything about the above except that FB is in many ways the most "team" of team sports with vastly different body types, roles and responsibilities at play. If you can't make an analogy related to business work within a gridiron (american) football context, you probably can't make it work :)
dang 10y ago
This is the sort of tangent that we don't mark off topic, because going into the intricacies of football as an analogy for software development is whimsically specific (as opposed to generically ideological). Whimsical specifics are interesting! Perhaps you got downvoted because you resorted to the "Do you have" trope to insinuate that the other person is ignorant. This is a variant of "Did you even read the article", a form of incivility we specifically ask people to avoid here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We also ask people not to use uppercase for emphasis. If you edited those things out of your comment it would be much better.
- kasey_junk 10y ago
  Meh, I down voted him for over simplifying football.

the-dude 10y ago

Maybe it is lost in translation and he meant soccer?

sqeaky 10y ago
If is about it still works pretty well. Stupid top-down deadlines are different than the effective communication the QB gets. And a dev team does need effective communication.
ralmeida 10y ago
Unlikely, since in soccer the sentence "I will run X yards" doesn't fit.

wnevets 10y ago

>Because most american people I know in football, know their EXACT role. Mr. Offensive lineman - I smash whoever is in front of me. If the play is to the left, I smash left. If the play is to the right, I smash right. They know nothing about defense. They know nothing about receiver routes. They don't care. They stand up and smash people. That's a very oversimplification of american football. For a basic example even the "dumb" offensive lineman has to play differently whether it's a run or a pass. A more complicated play like a screen will require a lot of coordination with his other teammates to perform correctly. American football is actually a pretty good analogy for a the typical development team and the different roles an offense has. You have people in the trenches, people doing flashy stuff and a field general trying to tie it all together.

dpark 10y ago

> Because most american people I know in football, know their EXACT role. The comment you're replying to says this specifically. > Mr. Offensive lineman - I smash whoever is in front of me. If the play is to the left, I smash left. This is an oversimplification and if this is all the offensive lineman does, he'll be rapidly out of a job. The linemen are constantly adjusting to deal with the defense. They'll hold to avoid a big sack. They'll leap on the ball when there's a fumble. They'll block someone else if needed. It's not smash left and done. > It would be like a PM coming by every 5 minutes and telling you that you should use a Dictionary to store the current data, and then on the next problem you should maybe look into an ArrayList. I think it would be a lot more like management saying "we need you to build product X" and then expecting the QB to deliver. The QB isn't just running plays by rote.

jsight 10y ago

I think that a lot of what you are saying is only true if you don't understand American football all that well. Blocking schemes are far more complex than just "smash whoever is in front". WR's run much more complex routes than just a single route as well (option routes depending upon the coverage and coverage technique). His analogy is limited (as all analogies are, at some level), but it works for its intended purpose, IMO.

0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
> His analogy is limited (as all analogies are, at some level) Like a leaky bucket. Edit: Some analogies are nearly perfect. Maybe he just needs to find a better one.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

But if it's a pass, and it's a three-step drop throwing a quick out, the tackle (offensive lineman on the outside) wants to guide the rusher to the inside in order to keep him out of the path of the ball (which will be a fairly flat throw, and therefore perhaps within reach of the defensive lineman). So in that case, yes, the offensive lineman has to know what the receiver route is, and to react accordingly.

dpeck 10y ago

Offensive lineman have to know a ton about the play being run, whether they should pull left or right, who he's responsible for blocking, if he should drive block the man up or chip and work to get in front of a linebacker, etc. Receivers have to be on the same page as the qb as to what is getting done and how they'll adjust based on coverage. Running backs usually don't have to do a lot of thinking, they're more reactive, initial responsibilities and steps set but changes quickly as the play develops. Thats not to say anything about the above except that FB is in many ways the most "team" of team sports with vastly different body types, roles and responsibilities at play. If you can't make an analogy related to business work within a gridiron (american) football context, you probably can't make it work :)

dang 10y ago

This is the sort of tangent that we don't mark off topic, because going into the intricacies of football as an analogy for software development is whimsically specific (as opposed to generically ideological). Whimsical specifics are interesting! Perhaps you got downvoted because you resorted to the "Do you have" trope to insinuate that the other person is ignorant. This is a variant of "Did you even read the article", a form of incivility we specifically ask people to avoid here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We also ask people not to use uppercase for emphasis. If you edited those things out of your comment it would be much better.

kasey_junk 10y ago
Meh, I down voted him for over simplifying football.