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My wife and I applied for the Canadian Express Entry program. We started the process in September, once we realized that a Trump win was more likely than it see

My wife and I applied for the Canadian Express Entry program. We started the process in September, once we realized that a Trump win was more likely than it seemed. We are minorities, and immigrants. We are also highly educated, earn a combined total of 250k+, and were planning to buy a house this year. We've been in the US for 7 years, are well integrated, and liked living here. Now, we are planning to leave the US as soon as we can. We have enough points that we should be invited soon, and we'll be out of here. We are not alone. Many (6, as of yesterday) friends of mine with similar backgrounds have asked me about the process, and are starting it themselves. Anecdata, I know, but six month ago my wife and I were looking at real estate listings. Now, we are looking at international moving companies. Our jobs are secure, nothing else has changed. We just don't want to live in a country where the president routinely insults people who don't look like him. And people in our state have started noticing a rise in insults and discrimination that simply didn't exist before.

potatosoup 10y ago
From a fellow immigrant, please don't believe everything NYT/CNN tell you (i.e. daily fearmongering).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- TimJRobinson 10y ago
  You don't need the media to know how much Trump likes to stir up fear and hatred in the USA. Watching him speak vs Trudeau is like night and day. Trump clearly wants to make everyone fearful of the outsiders, of the elites, and fearful for their future so they can be sold his plan. Trudeau is almost the polar opposite in how he presents himself and his vision. He thinks about issues deeply and wants to build a united country where people see their differences as strengths and take care of each other. The media in both countries likes to incite fear because that's what sells, it's far easier than ever before to do that with the current president elect.
  - refurb 10y ago
    Trudeau just got into office. Give it some time.
  - charlesism 10y ago
    If my government wanted to put me on a special list because of my religion, or my lack thereof, that would be all the incentive I'd need to emigrate.
- obviousthrow 10y ago
  It's not the media. It's Trump - his own words and deeds. The media doesn't need to tell you about Trump, he does it himself. My wife and I have heard and seen enough.
- esturk 10y ago
  You don't know where he lives though. He could live close to rural areas which might be a big problem. The burden of being a minority in rural areas is that anything you do is magnified and generalized for all people in that group. If someone locally commits a crime they can say its a one time thing but if a person of color/minority commits a crime, it literally spreads across a small town and generalized simply because rural areas don't often come into contact with minorities. Thus is the burden of being a minority in rural America.
  - obviousthrow 10y ago
    I'm not in deep rural America, but I'm not in a big city either - I'm about 50 miles from the nearest big city. And this is a red state. It's mostly white people here, and that was never ever an issue before the events of 2016. Seriously, I didn't even think about it. Yes, people were sometimes a little distant or whatever, but I never faced racism that I could point at. It helps that we speak fluently with barely any accent - people (store clerks, etc.) would be standoffish till we spoke and then they'd be fine. Now, there's a distinctly different feeling when we walk into our grocery store, or go out to eat. People look at us more, there's a chill in the air and it's not just winter. You might think I'm being paranoid and maybe I am. But I'm taking it seriously enough to upend our life and move to a new country. This isn't something you do on a whim, or just cause you're feeling singled out. I sent my fingerprints to the FBI for a police check. That's not like buying a coffee. We are just so disappointed - and let me clarify, I'm not politically active, nor do I care very much for the other candidate. It's just sad to think that this is the best the US could do. It's also terrifying (as immigrants and minorities) to see the people who are getting cabinet positions. My friend's six year old daughter was told to go back to her own country. She was born here. She is indistinguishable from your average six-year old US kid - except she isn't white and has a name that's different. She never had that happen before. We aren't going to raise our children here. I'm going to get off my soapbox now. I'm sorry if this comment isn't a good fit for HN. I am a quiet soul and do not usually speak stridently online or offline. I guess this HN story just caught me at a low point.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
- beachstartup 10y ago
  i also believe the op to be anxious and irrational because of the media coverage. i think many people are. the media was wrong about trump, and now they are doubling down by stoking fear in the hearts of viewers. it's insanity. let's not talk about how these outlets are all owned by individuals and groups/interests opposing trump and his agenda. this is basic US partisan politics 101, and it's scaring people who are not used to it, or do not understand how it works, like this person who has lived here for 7 years and is now shocked that we do not live in a nation that would vote for basically a 3rd obama term. this is literally his first white president (lol, think about that) and now he lives in a racist shithole? come on. 2 of the deepest red states in the nation elected indian american republican governors. louisiana, and south carolina. the entire nation elected obama twice. california has yet to elect a non-white governor, or senator. has new york? i don't know, but i doubt it. silicon valley is still run by nearly 100% white people. the only time i've ever seen open racism was in boston massachusetts. notice how his justification for moving is "a chill in the air", "people look at me longer" .. these aren't words or actions by other people, these are feelings that arise internally from a heightened state of awareness due to anxiety. my parents immigrated here in the 80s and faced some really fucked up discrimination and have persevered and succeeded (and so have i) in a great country. if this person is going to throw away their 7 years of work and quarter million dollar income (immigrants making $250k, sounds like an awful place) for a "chill in the air" i say good riddance. they're in for a rude awakening when they meet their first canadian racist and their first canadian tax withholding.
  - charlesism 10y ago
    In all seriousness, what do you figure they intend to do with that list of muslims? You seem very relaxed about the whole thing.
    - kobeya 10y ago
      In all seriousness, if there is a national registry of Muslims created under a Trump presidency, I'll eat my hat. We are a nation of laws and the office of the president does not carry absolute power. The list of Muslims campaign promise runs afoul of so many limits on power, starting with the 1st amendment. It won't happen.
copperx 10y ago
I'm about to start the process, but I'm having a hard time picking a province. Any pointers? I don't speak French, I would like a somewhat temperate climate, and affordable rent.
- lstamour 10y ago
  Best climate in Canada would be Southern Ontario or BC. If you're not in a big city, housing should be quite affordable in those provinces. Everywhere else in Canada, well, the weather can vary. No worries about needing to know French, it's only required in Quebec or (useful for) federal government jobs. But ultimately where you settle is up to you (or maybe your employer)...
  - refurb 10y ago
    Best climate in Canada would be Southern Ontario Southern Ontario often get to -30C and has huge lake effect snow storms. BC is great if you're in Vancouver ($$$$ for housing) or Victoria ($$$ for housing).
    - lstamour 10y ago
      Really? Often -30°C? https://goo.gl/OWcFuU https://goo.gl/OWcFuU (Windsor) or https://goo.gl/mx9L52 https://goo.gl/mx9L52 (Toronto)
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - refurb 10y ago
        Averages hide the extremes. I used to live in Toronto. I would say at least a few days each winter it got to -30C.
        theluketaylor 10y ago
        Many years there won't be a -30 day in toronto, and, even when there is, it's just a couple days. Between TTC and PATH it's easy to stay inside those handful of bad days. Toronto is rarely below -20, which is pretty easy to manage with the right clothing. It's a shock for someone coming from an area without winter, but I know many, many people who have adjusted.
it_learnses 10y ago
great. You can bring your 250k+ usd income earnings, buy up real estate here and make it even more unaffordable for us canadians to own property and live here.
- tempestn 10y ago
  Unfortunately Canada hasn't completely avoided anti-immigration sentiment, but I like to think the majority up here are welcoming.
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    It's going to get a lot less welcoming in the coming years. Unemployment is trending upwards, there's not really any up and coming industries to replace jobs lost in resources (all commodities but especially oil are down), and the demographic shift (immigration) is driving down wages. We got a taste of it when Harper campaigned on anti-terrorist paranoia, but most people just thought he was a clown. When large swaths of Canadians are out of jobs, the anti-immigrant sentiment will come to the fore. Here in Alberta it's already pretty bad - unemployment is at levels we haven't seen in decades, yet a steady stream of TFWs are still somehow getting hired, and there's no reprieve in sight.
    - tempestn 10y ago
      Unfortunately you're probably right. Of course, as most people here understand, the economy isn't a zero sum game, so we should be welcoming skilled immigrants and thanking them for adding to our prosperity, not complaining about them buying homes or taking jobs. (Think instead of the taxes they're paying, or the jobs they're creating, directly or indirectly.) As far as the "making homes more unaffordable" point, I could see the case for absentee foreign buyers who leave the properties empty. It's still not the real problem, but I can understand the frustration, and support initiatives like a tax on vacant property. That's a big difference from someone immigrating to the country and buying a home though! And anyway, what really makes homes unaffordable is lack of sufficient density. Sure, there's a peak where there is simply no more space, but cities like Vancouver are nowhere near it.
refurb 10y ago
earn a combined total of 250k+ Be prepared to take a hefty cut to your income. Canadian salaries are much lower generally.
- obviousthrow 10y ago
  Yes, but my company sounds like they'll move my job. If not, so be it.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  >Canadian salaries are much lower generally. No, they're not: http://www.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-household-income-000.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-household...
  - refurb 10y ago
    It does depend heavily on the industry. If you're in oil/gas, then yeah, you'll do great. Tech industry? Not so much.
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      Solution: work in tech for oil/gas companies. I'm sure they could use some talented engineers to help work out all the data to figure out where the next best place to drill is.
reality_czech 10y ago
The Trump = Racism thing is a media lie. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo... Trump gained more of the non-white vote than the last two Republicans to run, has a Jewish daughter, and constantly talks about how he values other cultures. Just not uncontrolled immigration.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Trump does want to maintain a state registry for people belonging to a certain religion though. You're right that it might not be racism, but it's also obviously awful.

potatosoup 10y ago

From a fellow immigrant, please don't believe everything NYT/CNN tell you (i.e. daily fearmongering).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
TimJRobinson 10y ago
You don't need the media to know how much Trump likes to stir up fear and hatred in the USA. Watching him speak vs Trudeau is like night and day. Trump clearly wants to make everyone fearful of the outsiders, of the elites, and fearful for their future so they can be sold his plan. Trudeau is almost the polar opposite in how he presents himself and his vision. He thinks about issues deeply and wants to build a united country where people see their differences as strengths and take care of each other. The media in both countries likes to incite fear because that's what sells, it's far easier than ever before to do that with the current president elect.
- refurb 10y ago
  Trudeau just got into office. Give it some time.
- charlesism 10y ago
  If my government wanted to put me on a special list because of my religion, or my lack thereof, that would be all the incentive I'd need to emigrate.
obviousthrow 10y ago
It's not the media. It's Trump - his own words and deeds. The media doesn't need to tell you about Trump, he does it himself. My wife and I have heard and seen enough.
esturk 10y ago
You don't know where he lives though. He could live close to rural areas which might be a big problem. The burden of being a minority in rural areas is that anything you do is magnified and generalized for all people in that group. If someone locally commits a crime they can say its a one time thing but if a person of color/minority commits a crime, it literally spreads across a small town and generalized simply because rural areas don't often come into contact with minorities. Thus is the burden of being a minority in rural America.
- obviousthrow 10y ago
  I'm not in deep rural America, but I'm not in a big city either - I'm about 50 miles from the nearest big city. And this is a red state. It's mostly white people here, and that was never ever an issue before the events of 2016. Seriously, I didn't even think about it. Yes, people were sometimes a little distant or whatever, but I never faced racism that I could point at. It helps that we speak fluently with barely any accent - people (store clerks, etc.) would be standoffish till we spoke and then they'd be fine. Now, there's a distinctly different feeling when we walk into our grocery store, or go out to eat. People look at us more, there's a chill in the air and it's not just winter. You might think I'm being paranoid and maybe I am. But I'm taking it seriously enough to upend our life and move to a new country. This isn't something you do on a whim, or just cause you're feeling singled out. I sent my fingerprints to the FBI for a police check. That's not like buying a coffee. We are just so disappointed - and let me clarify, I'm not politically active, nor do I care very much for the other candidate. It's just sad to think that this is the best the US could do. It's also terrifying (as immigrants and minorities) to see the people who are getting cabinet positions. My friend's six year old daughter was told to go back to her own country. She was born here. She is indistinguishable from your average six-year old US kid - except she isn't white and has a name that's different. She never had that happen before. We aren't going to raise our children here. I'm going to get off my soapbox now. I'm sorry if this comment isn't a good fit for HN. I am a quiet soul and do not usually speak stridently online or offline. I guess this HN story just caught me at a low point.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
beachstartup 10y ago
i also believe the op to be anxious and irrational because of the media coverage. i think many people are. the media was wrong about trump, and now they are doubling down by stoking fear in the hearts of viewers. it's insanity. let's not talk about how these outlets are all owned by individuals and groups/interests opposing trump and his agenda. this is basic US partisan politics 101, and it's scaring people who are not used to it, or do not understand how it works, like this person who has lived here for 7 years and is now shocked that we do not live in a nation that would vote for basically a 3rd obama term. this is literally his first white president (lol, think about that) and now he lives in a racist shithole? come on. 2 of the deepest red states in the nation elected indian american republican governors. louisiana, and south carolina. the entire nation elected obama twice. california has yet to elect a non-white governor, or senator. has new york? i don't know, but i doubt it. silicon valley is still run by nearly 100% white people. the only time i've ever seen open racism was in boston massachusetts. notice how his justification for moving is "a chill in the air", "people look at me longer" .. these aren't words or actions by other people, these are feelings that arise internally from a heightened state of awareness due to anxiety. my parents immigrated here in the 80s and faced some really fucked up discrimination and have persevered and succeeded (and so have i) in a great country. if this person is going to throw away their 7 years of work and quarter million dollar income (immigrants making $250k, sounds like an awful place) for a "chill in the air" i say good riddance. they're in for a rude awakening when they meet their first canadian racist and their first canadian tax withholding.
- charlesism 10y ago
  In all seriousness, what do you figure they intend to do with that list of muslims? You seem very relaxed about the whole thing.
  - kobeya 10y ago
    In all seriousness, if there is a national registry of Muslims created under a Trump presidency, I'll eat my hat. We are a nation of laws and the office of the president does not carry absolute power. The list of Muslims campaign promise runs afoul of so many limits on power, starting with the 1st amendment. It won't happen.

copperx 10y ago

I'm about to start the process, but I'm having a hard time picking a province. Any pointers? I don't speak French, I would like a somewhat temperate climate, and affordable rent.

lstamour 10y ago
Best climate in Canada would be Southern Ontario or BC. If you're not in a big city, housing should be quite affordable in those provinces. Everywhere else in Canada, well, the weather can vary. No worries about needing to know French, it's only required in Quebec or (useful for) federal government jobs. But ultimately where you settle is up to you (or maybe your employer)...
- refurb 10y ago
  Best climate in Canada would be Southern Ontario Southern Ontario often get to -30C and has huge lake effect snow storms. BC is great if you're in Vancouver ($$$$ for housing) or Victoria ($$$ for housing).
  - lstamour 10y ago
    Really? Often -30°C? https://goo.gl/OWcFuU https://goo.gl/OWcFuU (Windsor) or https://goo.gl/mx9L52 https://goo.gl/mx9L52 (Toronto)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - refurb 10y ago
      Averages hide the extremes. I used to live in Toronto. I would say at least a few days each winter it got to -30C.
      - theluketaylor 10y ago
        Many years there won't be a -30 day in toronto, and, even when there is, it's just a couple days. Between TTC and PATH it's easy to stay inside those handful of bad days. Toronto is rarely below -20, which is pretty easy to manage with the right clothing. It's a shock for someone coming from an area without winter, but I know many, many people who have adjusted.

it_learnses 10y ago

great. You can bring your 250k+ usd income earnings, buy up real estate here and make it even more unaffordable for us canadians to own property and live here.

tempestn 10y ago
Unfortunately Canada hasn't completely avoided anti-immigration sentiment, but I like to think the majority up here are welcoming.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  It's going to get a lot less welcoming in the coming years. Unemployment is trending upwards, there's not really any up and coming industries to replace jobs lost in resources (all commodities but especially oil are down), and the demographic shift (immigration) is driving down wages. We got a taste of it when Harper campaigned on anti-terrorist paranoia, but most people just thought he was a clown. When large swaths of Canadians are out of jobs, the anti-immigrant sentiment will come to the fore. Here in Alberta it's already pretty bad - unemployment is at levels we haven't seen in decades, yet a steady stream of TFWs are still somehow getting hired, and there's no reprieve in sight.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    Unfortunately you're probably right. Of course, as most people here understand, the economy isn't a zero sum game, so we should be welcoming skilled immigrants and thanking them for adding to our prosperity, not complaining about them buying homes or taking jobs. (Think instead of the taxes they're paying, or the jobs they're creating, directly or indirectly.) As far as the "making homes more unaffordable" point, I could see the case for absentee foreign buyers who leave the properties empty. It's still not the real problem, but I can understand the frustration, and support initiatives like a tax on vacant property. That's a big difference from someone immigrating to the country and buying a home though! And anyway, what really makes homes unaffordable is lack of sufficient density. Sure, there's a peak where there is simply no more space, but cities like Vancouver are nowhere near it.

refurb 10y ago

earn a combined total of 250k+ Be prepared to take a hefty cut to your income. Canadian salaries are much lower generally.

obviousthrow 10y ago
Yes, but my company sounds like they'll move my job. If not, so be it.
cpncrunch 10y ago
>Canadian salaries are much lower generally. No, they're not: http://www.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-household-income-000.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-household...
- refurb 10y ago
  It does depend heavily on the industry. If you're in oil/gas, then yeah, you'll do great. Tech industry? Not so much.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Solution: work in tech for oil/gas companies. I'm sure they could use some talented engineers to help work out all the data to figure out where the next best place to drill is.

reality_czech 10y ago

The Trump = Racism thing is a media lie. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo... Trump gained more of the non-white vote than the last two Republicans to run, has a Jewish daughter, and constantly talks about how he values other cultures. Just not uncontrolled immigration.

matthewmacleod 10y ago
Trump does want to maintain a state registry for people belonging to a certain religion though. You're right that it might not be racism, but it's also obviously awful.