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How I stopped the RSI pain that almost destroyed my programming career

• danieltillett 10y ago
  The thing that I found works wonders in preventing RSI pain is those silicone gel keyboard wrist rests [1]. Get one (softer the better) and also one for your mouse. Since using these I have not had any pain. 1. http://www.staples.com/Staples-Gel-Wrist-Rests/product_SS1033586 http://www.staples.com/Staples-Gel-Wrist-Rests/product_SS103...
• tom_wilde 10y ago
  This may help someone out there. I had chronic tennis elbow for years, tried a huge array of options to fix it and failed... until: I found a _vertical_ mouse. Turns out it was a micro-injury thing...
  • ryanfreeborn 10y ago
    Yup, vertical mouse solves most of my right-side issues. It can't be one of those cool-looking vertical mouses either (e.g. Anker, Evoluent). While those do help, it's not enough for me. I get the most relief from an actual joystick vertical mouse.
    • z0r 10y ago
      http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0476 http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0476 Not a vertical mouse, but surprisingly good. Only miss mice when playing around with graphics software. I have it in PS/2 and USB, and they did a hack job with the USB hardware, it's very low resolution. PS/2 connector gives a very smooth and nice trackball experience if anyone is tempted.
  • cookiecaper 10y ago
    Wish there was more competition in ergonomic input devices. Was just searching for a new mouse and couldn't find a vertical mouse with acceptable reviews. Ended up forgoing the vert. mouse altogether and buying a Logitech MX Master to replace my Logitech G500 (which I've used for many years and is now discontinued) and I'm pretty happy with it so far. I'm even pleased with its gaming performance (probably not OK for highly competitive or pro gamers, but np for me). Mouse was visibly sluggish over Bluetooth but works great over Logitech RF. Although the MX Master is not billed as an ergonomic device, it fits my hand better than the G500 and I already feel some relief of the slight pain in my right wrist. I've used a Kinesis Advantage keyboard for about 3 years (and the MS Ergo 4000 for several years before that, in response to pain that developed before I even turned 20) and it's been a godsend. Would like to find a good ergo mouse before I'm forced to.
    • tcoff91 10y ago
      The DXT Mouse by Kinesis is the absolute best mouse I've ever used. It's ambidextrous so you can switch back and forth to do wear-leveling. It's crazy comfortable. You may have to raise it up on a book or something though next to your keyboard due to the different way you hold it. I switch back and forth between a DXT mouse and a trackball every couple days so that I'm not always doing the same motions. I also use auto-click software so that I don't have to click the mouse. I use RSI Guard which has this feature. https://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Wireless-Promotes-Vertical/dp/B00F0Y3IIW https://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Wireless-Promotes...
    • matt_m 10y ago
      The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic mouse is semi-vertical (this might depend on how you hold it) and tracks better than the Evoluent mouse I was using before, although the ergonomics are probably not as good. The build quality is also better IMO than the Anker / Sharkk vertical mice popular on Amazon. Haven't tried the DXT mouse mentioned in the other comment.
  • quickpost 10y ago
    Try out the Tyler Twist exercise - relatively new, but with actual scientific backing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971639/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971639/ I do it once a week after I lift weights and it has cleared up my tennis elbow nicely (and helped programmer RSI, I think too!).
• edwhitesell 10y ago
  I started having indicators of Carpal Tunnel about 10 years ago. I had heard good things about certain wrist supports while typing, but I'm a Systems/Network guy; so I frequently do other things than just sitting at my desk. Wearing a wrist guard was very inconvienent. So, I started wearing one at night while I slept. It took a couple of months, but I've never had problems since.
• ianaphysicist 10y ago
  I was in pain for a year or more. I got a forearm massage to eliminate the knots. Then I changed my typing style to be more about comfort and less about what the typing instructors wanted. No problems in the 15 years since.
  • colanderman 10y ago
    I credit my never having had typing-related stress with being a self-taught typist. My hands rest naturally with wrists straight, unlike "home row" position which would have the wrists bent, and there are several keys which I type with either hand. (I have had mouse-related grip stress, which I solved by switching to a trackball.)
• oceanswave 10y ago
  Came here for Star Citizen news. Was disappointed.
  • teach 10y ago
    I don't get it.
    • Agathos 10y ago
      RSI = Roberts Space Industries
  • dang 10y ago
    Please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
• pmcollins 10y ago
  I got an RSI injury on my left hand and was unable to type normally for a few years. I went so far as to learn Dvorak RH which, even though I got reasonably good at it after a couple of years, was still crappy for programming. After a very dark period of taking jobs that required less typing (Kafkaesque jobs at mega-corps involving mostly fixing other people's bugs), I'm better now because of: 1) Using an Apple keyboard, which even though it doesn't look ergonomic, the reduced key travel has helped immensely. 2) Using JetBrains' IDEs instead of vim. If you are a bash/vim/tmux (or equivalent) user like I was, try coding in your favorite language in a JetBrains IDE. Automated refactoring and code completion are your friends. 3) Try drinking red wine. The resveratrol in red wine is a natural anti-inflammatory.
  • robertcorey 10y ago
    wow I thought becoming better at vim would help. do you use vim keybindings still?
    • pmcollins 10y ago
      I use them in bash, but not in IntelliJ. The number of keystrokes per line of code using IntelliJ ends up being delightfully small.
    • tcoff91 10y ago
      If the problem is typing, using vim will make you type more rather than use the mouse and cause problems. If mousing is the problem, then using vim will help IMO
  • cgvgffyv 10y ago
    > Using an Apple keyboard, which even though it doesn't look ergonomic, the reduced key travel has helped immensely. I thought the conventional wisdom was that Apple keyboards caused RSI?
    • gtaylor 10y ago
      Their laptop keyboards in particular tear my hands up pretty good.
• AJ007 10y ago
  I've made a few extensive posts about this here before too. Had 24/7 RSI paint for years. At the worst I couldn't hold a mouse. Thousands of dollars of ergonomic chairs, keyboards, and so on made it so I could work but still had constant pain. Started doing pushups (which I had avoided because I thought they made it worse.) Four weeks later I was using a laptop and suddenly it hit me I had been typing for 30 minutes with no pain. Life changing. Zero pain now and I can work 12 hours straight. Definitely is some combination of the muscles and tendons tightening up in the arms and shoulders. The pain being in a different spot makes in misleading.
  • overcast 10y ago
    I've been saying this for years to my colleagues. Pushups is key to basic overall muscle health. A simple exercise, can be done anywhere, and works your entire body. You'll no longer have lower back pain either. Take a break every hour or so, bang out ten pushups, go get some water. Get back to work. No big deal.
    • SketchySeaBeast 10y ago
      I really don't think one can emphasize the health and life benefits of any sort of full-ish body strength training. I'm a huge proponent of full body movement based barbell training, but exactly like you said, pushups, pullups, that sort of thing makes every aspect of your life better. No one has ever regretted getting even a little bit stronger.
      • akeating 10y ago
        Buying one of these http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/model-d http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/model-d worked for me. Full body workout I can do at home.
        • SketchySeaBeast 10y ago
          I love rowing for conditioning. It's up there with prowler/sled for puke factor if that's what you're going for, and it's great for general cardio if you don't like uncontrollable body tremors.
• tcoff91 10y ago
  I am currently rehabbing hand pain right now and the number 1 thing that is helping is this book: The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1572243759 https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-T... I believe that the primary cause of my hand pain is my forward head posture. This can create trigger points in the scalene muscles of the neck which cause sattelite trigger points in my forearms (especially the extensor muscles) and in my upper arms as well. These trigger points then refer pain to the hands. Self-massage using a lacrosse ball has pretty much eliminated my pain and seems to significantly increase bloodflow to my hands. NOTE: be very gentle the first time you do self massage of the scalenes with your fingers. I went too hard and my scalenes swelled up for 3 days and I experienced the symptoms of thoracic outlet syndrome, ie. I had numbness from my collarbone to my middle and ring finger on my left side. It went away once my neck healed. It definitely seems circulation related: whenever I use a computer with cold hands, it causes tension and then pain. I make sure to never use a computer with cold hands. I recently purchased this Far Infrared heating pad to heat my hands. It really does work a ton better than traditional heating pads with resistive coils. https://www.amazon.com/UTK-Infrared-Electric-Therapy-19-Inch/dp/B013S7KGUU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479497050&sr=8-3&keywords=utk+far+infrared+heating+pad https://www.amazon.com/UTK-Infrared-Electric-Therapy-19-Inch... Also, it is critical to correct the weakness and structural problems in the body. I do yoga, strength training, and swimming and these seem to be helping keep the trigger points from coming back. I am also doing shoulder mobility exercises with a stick and following this guide to correct my forward head posture: http://posturedirect.com/forward-head-posture-correction/ http://posturedirect.com/forward-head-posture-correction/
  • dvtv75 10y ago
    Just under half of the exercises prescribed by my physio are in that last link, and I expect that many of the remainder are coming up in a future appointment.
• rdtsc 10y ago
  Got a hand grip exerciser: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AJ6HZLG?psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AJ6HZLG?psc=1 wonder if this just helps with blood flow like suggested. Perhaps then maybe rubbing some warming lotion might help as well. I use an IBM Model keyboard. It is a larger keyboard so there is less sideways bending at the wrist, but Kinesis keyboard might be better there. An adjustable standing desk. I try to stand as much as possible, and then adjust the height to keep arms relaxed. So far feels much better, sometime pain goes away completely, but still not 100%.
• robertcorey 10y ago
  In this thread there will be many people with many different degrees of RSI who have solved it using a variety of different solutions. That is because the symptoms can be caused by a variety of different things. The defacto standard high level overview is https://www.amazon.com/Its-Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-Professionals/dp/0965510999 https://www.amazon.com/Its-Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-Profession...
  • phes 10y ago
    This and the book in the comment previous have both been helpful to me, along with good physiotherapists who understand trigger point release. I use a split keyboard with a graphics tablet in the middle and a mouse either side of the keyboard - this gives me a good variation of hand position. Right hand mouse is vertical. I find stretching, weights and cardio to be beneficial. The stretching helps to keep the nerves free from impingement, the cardio keeps a good blood flow, and the weights are rebuilding strength and muscle that atrophied during the year where it was too painful to use my hands & arms. Thanks everyone in this thread for sharing your techniques - it's always good to hear what other people find effective. The real solution is we should only work 30 hour weeks. Try telling that to your boss though, it's often hard enough to get an ergonomic pencil.
• batter 10y ago
  I had problem with my right hand. Majorly due to mouse usage. I'm not typing much (even being software developer). I have also tried different physical activities but it's only solving problem temporally. So my lifehack: switch mouse to left/right hand from time to time (or at work left handed, at home right handed). That's it. Yes, it's a bit awkward on beginning, but take that as challenge. And it will bring less harm than pills. In couple weeks you won't have problems to use mouse with any hand. Of course if you're typing a lot and you have problem with both hands due to keyboard usage my solution will not work for you.
  • tcoff91 10y ago
    I also switch back and forth which hands I use the mouse with. I use the Kinesis DXT mouse which is an ambidextrous vertical mouse. It makes this use-case very easy. switching hands is as easy as pressing a button and moving it. I also recommend using auto-click software so that you don't have to click the mouse as often. I only click to click-drag, double click, and right click. I also use the CVim chrome extension to browse with a keyboard.
  • wiredfool 10y ago
    When I first started getting RSI, it was in the mouse arm, up near the shoulder. I did something similar, but wound up with a mouse on each side of my keyboard. That cleared it up reasonably well, and since then my main mouse has always been on the left. I think that the combination of a keyboard with a numeric keypad (wiiiide) and a right hand mouse is the main trigger, not the concentrated mouse usage with one hand. If I could find one of the narrow model M keyboards, I'd consider moving back to the other side. The other things I've done have all centered on being aware of where nerves are near the surface, and never putting pressure there. If you're getting numbness in the thumb and first finger, it's likely carpal tunnel. If it's all over, it's more likely at the elbow.
• nateberkopec 10y ago
  As already mentioned, everyone's RSI is different so no one solution works for everyone, and if you have RSI, you should try everything until you find something that works for you. The two biggest wins for me have been a standing desk for posture improvement, and wearing wrist braces at night.
• SwellJoe 10y ago
  I've dealt with RSI and carpal tunnel syndrome for almost two decades, off and on. Some of my triggers are chairs with arms (I almost can't help but lean on them, making my posture horrible and disrupting blood flow), bad weather (rain and cold), stress, depression (all pain is worse when you're depressed). My first real recovery came when I got an Aeron and lowered the arms enough to where I couldn't lean on them, switched to a tiling window manager and stopped using the mouse (I am back to normal mouse and window manager these days, but when I feel the twinges of pain, I will sometimes switch back), and fixing the source of some of my stress (money was a stresser back then, and I took a contract job that paid well and got my debts paid off and some savings in the bank, so I could get back to working on the stuff I wanted to work on). I don't know which of these things was the real cure, though I do know that using a chair with arms I can lean on is the fastest way to bring the pain back. I suspect it is never "cured", it's just managed. Since figuring out my triggers it's been rare that I've experienced the pain for more than a few hours or days, and taking a walk, massaging my hands and wrists, etc. can usually get me back to work.
• Mz 10y ago
  Kudos to him. Among other things, I consumed gelatin daily for a year or two to feed the damaged tendons and ligaments, which helped significantly but didn't fully resolve the issue. It is resolved (at least for now), without surgery or drugs.
• cableshaft 10y ago
  My pain started coming back this year. One thing that always helps my mouse hand, is to rest my arm on a raised surface (currently a portfolio), but I've used a textbook before. This caused my hand to drop down to touch the mouse, instead of being pushed up, and changed the body part that gets anchored and pivots when moving the mouse from my wrist to my elbow. That really helped a lot. I still had issues with my left hand, and for me what has helped this time around is a ComfortBead Wrist Rest along the bottom of the keyboard. I'd used it years ago and wasn't convinced, but this time it's clearly and definitely helped a lot. In the past, I've sometimes gotten some relief by switching which hand is the mouse hand. Every once in awhile I'll let my left hand control the mouse for a bit.
  • a3n 10y ago
    > and changed the body part that gets anchored and pivots when moving the mouse from my wrist to my elbow. I'm not a doctor, etc. I set my mouse acceleration pretty high. I have a relatively small mouse, Logitech M325. My forearm, elbow and shoulder don't move at all when I move my mouse. To move the mouse from one corner to the opposite diagonal, the mouse just moves under my fingers. Most of the time my wrist doesn't move at all. I've been a programmer, and later jobs that type just as much, since the eighties, and I've never had any kind of RSI. Of course that's me, my body and activity, YMMV etc. But this is worth a shot. It's also extremely fun to watch a colleague try to drive my mouse and drive off the cliff. EDIT: Thinking about this a little more. First of all "I've never had any kind of RSI" could just mean that I'm not susceptible to that type of injury. How I hold my mouse: (works for me) If I hold my arm up a bit, so that my upper and forearm are something like a V, hand held loosely out and relaxed, then the thumb and index form something like a V, and the fingers are loosely spread out. This puts my thumb about an inch, inch and half below my index. Now I drop my hand down over my mouse (I don't actually go through this procedure, this just gets you to my position), maintaining that hand configuration roughly. This puts my thumb and pinky just below the bottom edge of the mouse, index on the left button and middle resting lightly on the weel, and ring finger just under the top edge of the mouse on that side. If I pick up the mouse it's held by the thumb and pinky, with a little extra support from the ring finger. To use the right button I move my middle finger over as necessary. Note that I don't have to move my middle finger forward or back to use the wheel, it's already there. If things get wheely I can lift the middle up a bit. For my hand, this puts the back of the mouse below my highest knuckles. There are depressions on both sides of the mouse, which look like the natural place to hold it. But if I move my thumb and pinky up into the depression, that pressures my index and middle up. To depress either button or mousewheel it feels like I'm slightly overextending my fingers, and I can feel more effort in my forearm muscles. I also feel effort in my wrist to hold my hand up like that. When I move the mouse, the outside edge of my pinky and side of my thumb drag on the desk (or couch, at the moment). If I do lift the mouse up, I just hinge my wrist up a bit, I don't lift my forearm. And my hand hardly moves out of its place, to the point that I sometimes have to clean gummy gunk off my desk, within about the area of a single hand, in one specific place. So this works for me, I think, because I let all my hand/finger positions and muscles be as natural and lazy as possible. Plus, the mouse fits my hand well, and I've been doing it like this for a long time. Side note: I hate track pads, and always disable mine, for whatever that's worth.
• utefan001 10y ago
  Highly recommend trying indoor bouldering. Huge help for my RSI. Go easy for the first 3 weeks.
• cortesi 10y ago
  Here's my anecdote. I had painful but not debilitating RSI-like symptoms for a couple of years. For me, fixing this came down to a set of fairly simple things: the Kinesis Advantage keyboard mentioned in the article, setting a timer to force myself to take rest breaks, focusing on posture when working. At least in my case, the issue seems entirely mechanical, and I'm sceptical of psychological and emotional explanations like Sarno's.
  • lutorm 10y ago
    This was the case for me too, although I think there's something to psychological issues causing tension which definitely can exacerbate the problem. I know that the fact that I constantly pick at my nails (which I count as a psychological issue) is aggravating the stress on my hands.
  • Jemmeh 10y ago
    It can contribute though. I typed at high speeds for years without issues, it wasn't until I took a stressful job typing all day and my muscles were constantly tense that I got RSI.
• nileshk 10y ago
  I used Sarno's book to cure myself back in 2002 and this approach has been successful ever since. Occasionally I will have some issue (though rarely wrist pain), and I can make it go away quickly by addressing the psychological root cause. I highly recommend reading his book "The Mindbody Prescription"
  • 300bps 10y ago
    Same here. More info here: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu And here, related to back pain but same root cause as RSI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI
  • slantedview 10y ago
    Similar story here. Sarno's book killed my RSI.
  • fredley 10y ago
    Me too. It was a big cognitive leap to accept that the pain could be psychological, but once I'd made it and accepted it it worked. Still get pain from time to time, don't worry about it and instead try and work out what's bugging me that I'm not engaging with, and this nearly always gets rid of whatever it is.
• kazinator 10y ago
  I got RSI some 26 years ago, due to entering a university CS environment where the workstations and terminals had very light action keyboards. I was used to hammering on stiff, long-travel behemoth keyboads, and of course continued that same pounding on the light ones which shocked the tendons, since I was basically tapping my fingers hard against the keyboard base with no shock absorption from the keys. The fact that I was doing curls with 45 lb dumbbells in the gym didn't help the wrists, either, not to mention playing guitar. I ended up with pain, tingling and numbness. The university sports med clinic prescribed a NSAID (naproxen). That did provide some relief. I overcame the RSI by working exclusively through a DEC VT100 terminal (the actual DEC VT100). Its heavy-duty keyboard with stiff action and long key travel didn't irritate my wrists. Eventually I went over to the light-action/short-travel keyboards that are now ubiquitous. Haven't had a problem since.
• slowmovintarget 10y ago
  I had carpal tunnel syndrome to where I lost sensation in three of my fingers, and could not grip properly in that hand. A chiropractor helped me recover. It took three months, a bit more attention to how I sat and leaned and used my computer equipment. But the pain in my neck and upper back went away, the pain in my arms and shoulders went away, and the sensation and strength came back in my hands. I didn't rush out to get a special keyboard, though my 1984 Model M keyboard is already special, just not in an ergonomic way.
• DougN7 10y ago
  I had a friend who had problems and discovered through research that reversing your mouse buttons does it. The tunnel/tendon used by the middle finger is much better for some reason with the constant clicking. This resolved it for him, my wife and me as well. I hope it helps someone else.
  • AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    I have off-and-on pain in my right index finger. (Arthritis is one possibility.) Some of the time, I turn my mouse hand a bit and use the middle finger for the left button.
    • DougN7 10y ago
      Try actually reversing them so you always use the middle finger all the time. It takes a little getting used to, and using someone else's computer (or them using yours) is a pain. But I find it takes just a day or two to see big differences.
      • AnimalMuppet 10y ago
        You also can simply move your mouse to the other side of the computer, and run it with your left hand. (You can reverse the buttons or not, as you prefer.)
• ejcx 10y ago
  I have light wrist pain that is worse some days than others. What helps me. 1. Heavy deadlifts. This helps grip strength a lot and strengthens my wrists. 2. Posture. I removed the arms from my chair, like SwellJoe mentioned. 3. Posture. Keeping my hand positioned on the keyboard properly. Don't rest the wrists on my laptop. 4. Stretch.
• corysama 10y ago
  Nerve damage is serious business kids! If you feel it coming on, you need to pay attention and take action. Don't wait until you start randomly feeling needle stabs all day like I did while in the middle of a year long, high pressure, large code volume project. Doc told me to get surgery. I cured it myself the hard way instead. Huge inconvenience for many months. Very happy with that decision today. Here's what worked for me: * Two keyboards and two mice. One set on my desk. The other keyboard on my lap and the other mouse on a pedestal at my side. I would switch up which keyboard/mouse I was using every 10 minutes or so. * Typing like I couldn't move my hands. Literally letting them hang limp and moving my arms a lot. * Stretches and massage before, during, after typing. This "Essential Hand Stretches for Guitarists" video helped me a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSrfB7JIzxY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSrfB7JIzxY * Pay attention. Take breaks. Notice what feels bad. Notice when you need to change up what you are doing --probably many times an hour. Take off your watch/rings. Watch out for resting your forearm/wrist on anything.
• elviejo 10y ago
  For me tho soluton was switiching to the Dvorak Keybeard. The reduced travel of my hands has really helped. All it took to switch was: 1. Practice in KP Typing Tutor 1 hour a day for 3 weeks. 2. Change my computer configuration. (The first week of change was the hardest, I was at 50% my normal speed). 3. Done. Changing to another keyboard has a price you won't comfortably use other people's computers. And they won't be able to use yours. But the benefit of being without pain is so worth it. If you suffer in your hands... make the change.
• chx 10y ago
  Go vertical, kids. For keyboard, I have used a Kinesis Freestyle w/ the Ascent explicitly designed for this purpose but now I just use the Matias Ergo Pro with some tripod parts to keep it vertical https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79810.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79810.0 (since the pic I have changed a bit but nothing significant, I have these four parts now forming an adjustible, 12" long column: 1/4" to 3/8" male-male spigot, Manfrotto adjustible column, Triopo Short Column, 3/8" female to 1/4" male adapter). The huge advantage of this vs the Kinesis is the super light weight so you can travel with this setup easily. And despite the end result is quite wide it actually collapses into smaller parts so I can just pack them in the same padded tablet bag as the keyboard. Alas, the same bag is now out of production and I honestly have no idea what to recommend. In the same forum you can find other solutions to keep it vertical. For mouse, Evoulent is good and I have used many generations of it and I can tell you the difference is negligible so you can just go on eBay and buy an older generation for cheap. It is a b!tch to travel with as it is really oddly shaped. Oh well, nothing is perfect.
  • sova 10y ago
    Never even considered going "vertical" for a keyboard. I wonder if a future laptop utilizing this would have a screen hugged by two keyboard-buns? Future tech sandwich.
    • chx 10y ago
      I wish! But aside from the butterfly ThinkPad I am unaware of any laptop with moving parts keyboards.
  • 0xfeba 10y ago
    I've always wondered why they don't make keyboard halves that attach to arm rests on the typical office chair. So your arms are lowered for more blood flow, and the wrists and elbows in a more natural/neutral position. I'd buy it. In the meantime, I have a MS "natural" keyboard, and a vertical mouse as well. Those have solved all my RSI/wrist pains. Going back to flat or compact keyboards and horizontal mice is extremely annoying. Not just the muscle memory gap, but the positioning just feels wrong.
• homulilly 10y ago
  correction: "-itis" means inflammation, not some random thing.
• sova 10y ago
  Have you tried the Dvorak keyboard layout? Programmer Dvorak is a much more natural way of finger flow than qwerty and you can see (via statistics) that is reduces the "miles" your fingers "walk"
• fapjacks 10y ago
  Weightlifting and exercise are the only surefire ways I've found of combating the kinds of pain I experience as a programmer. I was able to utilize my doc's recommended steroid injections (and Kratom from Indonesia) in order to get myself to a point where I was working out every day. Years later, I haven't had to deal with any of those issues any longer. I am also a much better programmer for being a generally much healthier person.
  • wingworks 10y ago
    Agreed, I have friend who works over 8 hour days often, and is heavily into gyms too, and he never gets any RSI issues.
• skriticos2 10y ago
  I was a bit paranoid about this in my mid 20's, so I learned touch-typing the Dvorak layout (well supported on all major OS's, so no problem using it everywhere), got myself a decent mechanical keyboard a few years later and I use vim for editing since forever (fewer key-combos is good against RSI, so modal wins out here). Most recently I have switched the Ctrl and Caps keys on my layout, which reduces a lot of stress on my pinky finger. People think I'm a total geek (which is OK considering I'm in IT), and this works quite well in my daily business. Now in my mid-30's I have no problem and enjoy typing very much, so I guess the best thing to do is start with the precautions before the damage is done. Of course my conclusion might be very much premature, but I'm carefully optimistic.
  • godshatter 10y ago
    I did the same. When I was in my 30s my hands were cramping while I was typing so I learned dvorak and then built up the skill to switch between them easily. Now it's dvorak at home and qwerty at work, and no cramping since. That was 20 years ago or so.
  • kzisme 10y ago
    How big of a difference did Dvorak make for you? While I feel no pain at all I'm pretty paranoid about getting any pain/RSI in the coming years (recent graduate now working full time)
    • emodendroket 10y ago
      While I'm not a Dvorak typist, it seems to me like the benefit from getting your keyboard at a proper height and maybe doing some hand and wrist strengthening is going to be bigger than switching keyboard layouts.
      • Symbiote 10y ago
        I disagree, and I've used Dvorak for 12 years. Just using Qwerty for a few sentences feels awful. It doesn't hurt, of course, it's just a few sentences, usually on someone else's computer. But it's like using chopsticks to eat oily rice, when you're used to eating potatoes with a fork. To everyone: - Print this PDF: http://www.dvzine.org/type/OneSheetDVmap.pdf http://www.dvzine.org/type/OneSheetDVmap.pdf - Change your keyboard layout to Dvorak - Don't look at the keyboard, look at the printout to see where the keys are. - Relax :) (Qwerty: so much is one one hand. "st a few se", "lly on", "oily". Common things like "ter" and "sed" and "ard". This is the uncomfortable typing. In Dvorak, the longest sequences on one hand in the above are "12 yea" and the "ng ch" in "using chopsticks".)
• bluenose69 10y ago
  My left hand started aching about two years back, mainly when I was in Emacs. (I have the key to the left of "A" remapped to "CNTRL".) So I switched to Vim, which involves fewer painful single-hand key "chords". The pain went away within days, and has not returned. Of course, I'm not happy with the new Mac keyboards that lack an ESC key, so I am teaching myself CNTRL-[ as an alternative, and am happy that this splits the keys across two hands, which causes no pain.
• raverbashing 10y ago
  What helped me: focusing on using the keyboard instead of the mouse and Powerball exercises. I was never bothered by it again
• lutorm 10y ago
  I'll put in my constant plug for the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1608824942 https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-T... It was recommended to me by my PT when I had hand pain, and it's helped me not only with that but back pain, headaches, and plantar fasciitis. Probably a few more, too. If you ask me, it's the best $16 investment you can imagine.
  • tcoff91 10y ago
    Within 2 days of using the techniques in this book my pain started to improve significantly. Once you address the trigger points, tools such as the Powerball, captains of crush grippers, and thick rubber bands can be used to strengthen the flexors and extensor muscles of the forearms.
    • kzisme 10y ago
      Your pain improved or decreased after using the techniques?
• elorant 10y ago
  While I used a lot of aids, trackballs, special keyboards etc, the one thing that really made the difference for me was weight lifting exercises for the wrist.
• yesimahuman 10y ago
  A Logitech trackball really helped me. That and avoiding the MacBook trackpad. I tried a vertical mouse and it helped for a bit then I felt the pain got worse.
  • Crespyl 10y ago
    Growing up, my family computer was set up with a very specific model of Logitech trackball, the one shaped like a standard mouse with the off-center ball that rests under your fingers, not your thumb. It's the only trackball of its kind I've ever seen, every other model is either a tiny thumb-ball, or an enormous whole-hand deal. They stopped making them years ago, and now you can only find them from scalpers on Amazon for upwards of $4-500. It's frustrating, because I'd love to get back to using a trackball, but every other model seems less comfortable to me than a normal mouse. Edit: It's this one: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Optical-Trackman-USB/dp/B00006B9CR https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Optical-Trackman-US...
• arrakeen 10y ago
  my pain issue stemmed from my neck which i eventually realized was due to poor posture/forward head position. i'd highly recommend reading this article [1], which finally made it click for me. turn off your adblocker since there's a bug on the page which will hide the content, and ignore the amateurish presentation. there's some very good information on the site which helped me finally rid myself of pain [1] http://www.drbookspan.com/NeckPainArticle.html http://www.drbookspan.com/NeckPainArticle.html
• ninjakeyboard 10y ago
  I bought a kinesis advantage, learned colemak, and started using a cheap wacom bamboo tablet w/ my left hand (I'm right handed.) The latter was the best thing I think. I tried a trackball for a while. Switching hands entirely and getting used to a tablet where you only move your arm coupled w/ the kinesis advantage cured my rsi symptoms.
• jcl 10y ago
  The author's experience is consistent with my own... Most incidents of wrist/hand discomfort that I've experienced have started in cold or drafty environments. In these cases, I've found fingerless gloves have helped, as have breaks for walks and warm water rinses. I'm certain that inadequate blood flow is a major contributor to RSI, and that's probably one reason that exercise seems to help so much. Unfortunately, I think, environmental temperature is often overlooked as a source, maybe because it can affect individuals in so many different ways (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_reaction).
• overcast 10y ago
  This article is totally missing the basics. Exercise. I promise it will make ALL the difference. Get yourself a pull-up bar, and if you're feeling extra fancy, a dip bar. Push-ups, pull-ups, dips, and sit-ups. Every day. You'll be a coding machine. At the VERY least, push-ups. Every hour or two, take a break, knock off ten push-ups, walk around a bit, get some water, get back to work. I'll do this right at the office, often in the server room. A good chair helps, but all of this other nonsense is unnecessary. Exercise, and nutrition is the key to basically everything in life. As mentioned below. SLEEP.
  • zitterbewegung 10y ago
    Exercise has helped my back pain ( I exercise 3 times a week) and my wrist pain sometimes comes back but only if I have been playing video games in addition to coding for a full day. Even then its pretty rare now. I do use ergonomic mice and keyboard though.
    • overcast 10y ago
      Yes, no doubt the ergo stuff is good preventive measures. I don't skimp on cheap chairs, keyboard, mice or mattresses. Exercising for sure is helping you in every aspect of your life, not just sitting at the computer.
  • ajkjk 10y ago
    Your list has to include 'sleep' also. Then I agree with you.
  • r_smart 10y ago
    Last year I got into lifting for the first time ever (I'm 35). I got on a program, just doing a couple of heavy compound lifts three days a week, and the change for me has been night and day. It doesn't take much time to learn how to do it correctly, and it's a lot more fun than running. All those aches and pains have gone away. Seriously, I can't recommend enough getting into lifting.
    • 10y ago
• Chyzwar 10y ago
  In my case weight of mouse is important. Light mouse is much better, cordless mouses with battery was killing my right hand. I got Mueller Wrist brace and it helped a lot when away from computer. The worst thing are stupid standard desks. 75cm height with keyboard on top. At home I build my own desk with 80cm height and keyboard+mouse shelf.
• plainOldText 10y ago
  One of the things I did that made a tremendous impact on reducing the tension in my joints, was buying a good keyboard. I don't typically recommend Microsoft products, but their sculpt keyboard is a product which is cheap[0], stylish and most importantly ergonomic. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CYX26BC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CYX26BC [0] Cheap relative to other ergonomic keyboards.
  • TYPE_FASTER 10y ago
    The original Microsoft Natural keyboard saved my career. Two weeks out of school, I had unendurable pain in both hands. I bought a Natural keyboard, the pain went away immediately, and only comes back when I use a laptop keyboard for coding for more than an hour or two.
    • dvtv75 10y ago
      The fact that it comes back after an hour or two of laptop keyboard use strongly suggests that you've not addressed the underlying issues. That's one of the key things I see cropping up repeatedly here - "I've found something that helps with my pain, if I stop the problems come back." I regularly use laptops, standard keyboards, and have no problems. When I had RSI, it was bad enough that I couldn't hold a fork for almost three months, and typing was an exercise in agony. Seek help from a good physiotherapist, but you'll need to do some research to find a good one. Also, see if you can find the bad habits you have that promote your injuries. I have upper body muscle tension and poor posture, and when I first recovered from my RSI I was having problems all the time with writing, typing, absolutely everything. It turned out that those problems weren't bad feelings, my hands and forearms had lost a significant portion of their strength, yet I was working just the same as I had been beforehand.
  • greenshackle2 10y ago
    I fucked my wrists by spending 8+ hours a day on a laptop from age 12 to 22. I have one of those at home, and one at work. They are really good. I went from being able to type 25 hours on a regular keyboard to 50 hours a week with minimal pain on this one. The sculpt has empty space in the middle (above the space bars), I always liked the thinkpad clit mouse - so I hacked a small trackball in the middle of the keyboard. (This one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00810ROQ4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00810ROQ4) The trackball buttons are not really accessible, but the keyboard has two space bars, so I rewired the left one to be left mouse click. The warranty is definitely void, but it was worth it.
• Someone 10y ago
  RSI is one of those things (ADHD, autism and dyslexia are other examples) that start as a label some scientist puts on a specific set of symptoms that cannot (currently) be linked to a specific condition [1], becomes popular and then get used for a zillion things with more or less the same symptoms (Wikipedia lists edema, tendinosis, tendinitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, cubital tunnel syndrome, De Quervain syndrome, thoracic outlet syndrome, intersection syndrome, epicondylitis, tenosynovitis, radial tunnel syndrome, and focal dystonia as possible conditions underlying RSI) Since 'RSI' may have many causes, it is unlikely a single treatment will help everybody. This article, in particular, looks like anecdata to me. Having said that, the suggestions others give to sleep and exercise almost certainly can't hurt and if they may hurt you, you probably already know how fragile your body is. Exercise breaks during work have the added benefit of introducing breaks. If I had to bet, those breaks are more important for RSI-like symptoms than the exercises themselves. [1] A disease is a particular abnormal condition, a disorder of a structure or function, that affects part or all of an organism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease, via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condition#In_medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condition#In_medicine)
  • jacobolus 10y ago
    “RSI” from typing too much in an uncomfortable way or using bad equipment is too serious to brush off. For anyone reading here, if you’re regularly feeling any level of pain while typing, take an immediate break to figure out what’s wrong. If you let it persist it can do you serious damage. There are a number of ways you can relieve your symptoms. Scale back your typing and keep trying ideas until the pain goes away. If pain persists or if it is acute/severe, go see a doctor right away. A doctor can much better diagnose you than internet commentary. (1) Make sure your wrists are in a straight and neutral position while typing. This is in my opinion (having talked to many people with RSI and watched their typing style) the #1 contributor. Other arm/hand/finger position problems can also contribute, but keeping the wrists relatively straight and relaxed is the first most important step to take. Try to pull your keyboard in close to your body and tilt it so that its top is parallel to your forearms (the right tilt to use will depend on the height of your desk and chair and the shape of your body) and stop resting palms, wrists, or arms on a palmrest whenever actively typing (leave your hands “floating” above the keyboard, with just fingertips resting lightly on the home row). If the keyboard’s flip-out feet won’t let you get to the appropriate angle, try propping books or something under the near or far side, as needed. (1a) More generally, pay attention to your body, and try to notice any muscles/tendons which are statically loaded while you type. Ideally you should be able to be in a position where your muscles are mostly relaxed, and only being used to actually press the keys. (2) Try to avoid typing for too many hours a day, or for too long at a stretch. (Take a break to stand up and walk around a bit once at least every 45m or so. Go to the bathroom, make yourself a coffee, walk around the block, whatever.) (3) Examine your seat and desk. Try to make sure your back is as straight as possible and your arms are in a relaxed position. Consider switching seat positions at least a few times throughout the day. Most office workers have their desks set too high compared to their torsos (this is because standard office furniture was designed for medium-tall European males to write with a pen on paper, not for people of arbitrary size/shape to type on a keyboard). You can either lower your desk or raise your chair to compensate. Consider alternative types of chairs (e.g. saddle seats) or an adjustable-height (e.g. sit–stand) desk. (4) Try to eat a balanced diet, get enough sleep, exercise a few times per week, and avoid too much stress in your life. Obviously you should try to do these things anyway, but they can absolutely contribute to typing pain. (5) If those changes don’t help, consider changing your physical keyboard/mouse hardware. A split keyboard with sufficiently “tented” sides eliminates the need to pronate your wrists, as is required for one-piece keyboards. This allows the elbows to be brought closer to the body, the shoulders to be relaxed, and generally reduces static load on several tendons/muscles. Consider an “ergonomic” mouse, a trackball, a roller mouse, or similar, or try to eliminate extraneous mousing. Consider changing the keyboard layout to avoid awkward stretched chords (“emacs pinky”), or even get a Maltron or similar row-oriented keyboard. Get a keyboard with switches that actuate halfway through the stroke (not a standard rubber dome keyboard), and try not to smash the keys hard into the bottom of the stroke while typing – aim for a light, fluid “dancing” style of typing.
• dm03514 10y ago
  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YR91QT75TJFKZ76CSCHJ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393/ref=pd_sim_14_1... Start daily regular stretching fix your finger, wrist, arm, shoulder, back pain.
• pfarnsworth 10y ago
  There are many different causes of RSI. Mine was from my mouse. Two year into my career, my RSI was so debilitating that I was worried I had to stop programming. I changed mice, changed how I held my mouse, and 20+ year later have never had a flare up. I now use a regular mouse, and just pivot my wrist when I use it, and haven't had a problem since then.
• pbrumm 10y ago
  what helped me was being more aware of the position of my hands during sleep. if I slept with my wrists in a bent position that tended to cause issues during the day with typing. Keeping them straight while sleeping helped a lot.
• wallflower 10y ago
  To anyone who has ever had pain or soreness or numbness after a prolonged coding session and it went away after some rest, pain is the first sign. Eventually what happens (and what happened to me) is that you need more recovery time to get back to a baseline normal. And eventually that baseline normal becomes a combination of symptoms: residual numbness, soreness, or pain. Please don't take your ability to "pound" away at the keyboard for granted. And please don't make jokes about RSI ever. It is not a joke, unless you think a "punch line" of seriously thinking about having to type a lot as a liability for your career. Swimming is quite possibly the best exercise. See http://totalimmersion.net http://totalimmersion.net for an alternative to the Red Cross endorsed and rather inefficient "pretend you are a human paddleboat" method. Good luck! Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.
  • emodendroket 10y ago
    I mostly agree with you but I don't think swimming will necessarily help with hand and wrist problems.
    • wallflower 10y ago
      There is no definite answer. It can and sometimes it can't. Hand and wrist problems are not always just hand and wrist problems. Sometimes they are a symptom of improper alignment and/or stress on the shoulder joints. If that is the case, swimming, a zero-impact (to your joints) activity, through exercising the full-range of motion of your shoulder and related joints can help relieve some of that stress/tension that filters down to the hand and wrist.
• cornflake 10y ago
  I had some pretty bad RSI that I thought was going to kill my career also. Turned out, I managed to eliminate it by completely changing my keyboard technique to tuck my thumbs underneath my fingers when typing. I'm surprised no-one ever told me about this before. The action of tapping the space bar with the corner of your thumbnail instead of smacking it with a big lateral thumb tap makes all the difference in reducing strain on your carpal tunnel. If your arms are at rest beside your body while standing, the 'natural state' of your fingers and thumbs in this position is the exact same hand posture you should maintain when typing. If you are instead performing an up-down movement with an unbent thumb, that can lead to RSI problems. Learnt about this from: http://www.kogosowski.com/product/prevent-rsi-ebook/ http://www.kogosowski.com/product/prevent-rsi-ebook/ * This e-book was written by a really smart concert pianist and the thumb positioning was the main take-away for me
• deleted 10y ago
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• cleandreams 10y ago
  I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years and I was diagnosed with tendonitis in my first 5 years but I have managed to hold RSI at bay. I pay attention and if any pain surfaces I take action that day. I do not ever, ever wait. This is what I do: 1. short regularly enforced breaks. I use WorkRave to take a break every 10 minutes for a minute and 6 minutes every hour. I skip these breaks if I'm fine but use them if I have any soreness. 2. A keyboard that allows my hands and wrists to be vertical and can be configured for any slant. I use a comfort keyboard, not easy to find anymore. 3. Ice baths. If my wrists are sore at all I immerse them in an ice bath for 7 minutes each, morning and evening. This really works. So cold it hurts. 4. Pressure point massage therapy. Releases tension in the muscles. It hurts but works. I do that once in a while.
  • Teichopsia 10y ago
    I can attest to the pressure point massage. After having two sessions (three was recommended) I could use the computer for a few months without feeling any pain nor the need of using a wrist strap (or whatever it's called).
  • Noumenon72 10y ago
    I would pay for a version of WorkRave that worked properly on my Windows 7 work laptop. It would be nice if it prevented me from issuing commands on my Windows 10 touchscreen too, so I can't just scroll through articles cheating on my break.
• analog31 10y ago
  Just as an aside, don't neglect your neck. I have had a couple bouts of pain, that felt for all the world like it originated in my left wrist. Turned out it was a pinched nerve in my neck. Physical therapy and a standing desk were the cure for me. (Of course it might have just cured itself too).
• griffinmichl 10y ago
  I bought a Kinesis Advantage, and it 100% completely cured my wrist problems. Best money I've ever spent.
• westoncb 10y ago
  I had to quit programming for six years because of an RSI. In attempt to get around it, I even spent a year and half (painfully) writing a new kind of 'higher level' text editor better for use with motion sensors [1]. Now it's been ten years, and I still don't exactly know what the cause was/is, though I've got it to a point now where it's at least tolerable. I think the most confusing factor here is the (potential) mental component to these injuries. I personally ruled that out as a possibility for the first five years or so just because it didn't really fit into my understanding of things that I could experience physical pain via something mental. The idea was tantamount to calling the pain artificial, which I knew was very much not the case. The article (and others here) mention Dr. Sarno. I also read a couple of his books, and a couple more from others who think in the same basic framework. It helped. I'm certain there is/was a mental component—but I don't think Sarno et al's framework is good enough yet (don't get me wrong though—it does work for some people). Aside from results being imperfect, the fact that much of it is grounded in Freudian psychology is an obvious defect. I think they've hit on some techniques that can help, but the theory is bad (which prevents them from effectively refining the techniques). My latest idea on what has caused all of this: I had some kind of physical injury early on (maybe tendonitis), and it eventually resolved itself. However, I developed this habit of very anxiously monitoring/testing the wrist/hand pain whenever using mouse and keyboard, which would cause the muscles to tense to the point of being painful. Unfortunately, my mind failed to distinguish between the original pain and that caused by tensing, so I continued operating under the assumption that I had some RSI, and continued vigorously worrying about it and attempting to solve it. The only thing I can think of doing now (and which I am actively doing), is getting better at meditation so I can hopefully one day let go and not worry and tense up while using mouse/keyboard :/ [1] http://westoncb.com/projects/tiledtext http://westoncb.com/projects/tiledtext
  • fredley 10y ago
    I am another Dr Sarno advocate. I had been out of my startup for two months, in utter despair. I happened to bump into a friend who recommended the book and free online course. It changed my life.
  • rlp 10y ago
    Sarno's program completely cured my RSI. My highly-regarded surgeon was ready to operate for cubital tunnel, which had been getting progressively worse for about 2 years. I was to the point that I would feel pain all the time while typing, and had some tingling/numbness. I was concerned about surgery, so I decided to try some alternatives first, and the stuff from Sarno was amazing. It was scary as hell to just tell myself that the pain wasn't real, and that I wasn't hurting myself, but I figured it was worth a shot. It's been 10 years since then. I now have zero problems, no special exercises, no ergonomic keyboards, chairs, desks, etc. I also regularly play ARPGs like Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, which make most people with RSI cringe. I agree that Sarno's framework is not perfect. I'm not sure I buy his explanations as to why it works, but it does work. The key is that there is a huge mental component to RSI (or, at least, to some cases of RSI) that most people don't acknowledge. The monitoring/worrying about damaging yourself does something to those muscles/tendons that builds up over time.
• eikenberry 10y ago
  I never thought of cold causing RSI, but I've never had that problem. Good to know it might be a cause if it ever comes up again. I did have a bit of RSI about 10 years ago, but hardware fixed it for me. Balt split level desk + Kinesis Advantage + Kensington Slim Blade.
• wodenokoto 10y ago
  The thing about these pains is that they can come from, and be cured by all sorts of things. I once got a terrible pain in my right arm, couldn't click with my fingers, couldn't move my mouse. After a week I saw a doctor and he said I was tense in my shoulder, which wasn't causing any pain, and showed me a stretch. Stretching for 2 days cured me, and I've never had the problem again. The take-home message isn't that you should stretch, but that the cure for these things can be almost anything.
• pkamb 10y ago
  My senior year of university I suddenly became unable to click a mouse. Perfectly fine before, and I loved using mice for normal work and things like First Person Shooters. But suddenly the curling "clicking" movement of my index finger stared causing extreme pain. Still does, to this day, even making that movement in the air. Typing is fine for some reason. Transitioned to full-time TrackPoint use (USB ThinkPad keyboard), or TrackPad on my Macbook when I'm not at my desk.
• partycoder 10y ago
  After suffering from a severe RSI, involving wrist pain, numb fingers and months of physical therapy. This is what worked for me: - If you are in pain, stop what you are doing. Be it working, stretching or exercising. - Keep your wrists straight using a wrist brace, at day and night, until the pain goes away. There are soft braces specific for night use. One for day use that is not invasive is: https://www.amazon.com/BRACE-RCA-Treatment-Support-Regular/dp/B00PFUPRQ2 https://www.amazon.com/BRACE-RCA-Treatment-Support-Regular/d... - You can test your wrist posture by putting a pencil on your wrist. Your wrist should be straight. I emphasize this because it's one of the most contributing factors to RSI. - Therapy alternatives include: physical therapy, medication, acupuncture. I did not try the acupuncture personally. Physical therapy was greatly useful, especially the stretches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKOpnqvttI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKOpnqvttI - Use the right keyboard. A short keyboard helps your elbows, a mechanical keyboard helps your fingers. Ergonomic keyboards as well as vertical keyboards did not yield results for me. Even when used under the supervision of an ergonomist. - Exercise does help. Muscles comes in pairs. Typing makes you contract your muscles more than you extend them, creating a muscle imbalance that contributes to carpal tunnel syndrome. These products help: https://www.amazon.com/PROCIRCLE-Finger-Stretcher-Resistance-Assorted/dp/B00MA8M454/ https://www.amazon.com/PROCIRCLE-Finger-Stretcher-Resistance... , and when you need more: https://www.amazon.com/Strengtheners-rehabilitation-Equipment-Rehabilitation-Exercisers/dp/B00G0Y7724/ https://www.amazon.com/Strengtheners-rehabilitation-Equipmen... Finally, see this as an investment. To be injured for life will put your career in jeopardy. Invest in your health.
• udfalkso 10y ago
  I've found the "Time Out" mac app helpful to force myself to take breaks and stretch/stand/rest-eyes periodically. I disabled the Skip button recently which has been a bit annoying but valuable. Also, years ago I started using a trackball mouse instead of a normal mouse (or the laptop trackpad which is the worst for my wrist). It has helped a ton.
  • emodendroket 10y ago
    I used one of those (Workrave specifically) when my symptoms were at their absolute worst but it just makes it impossible to get things done.
    • udfalkso 10y ago
      I did tone down the frequencies some to be more Manageable. Even a 12 second break every 15 monutes or so does a lot. And it doesn't break the flow much at all
• intrasight 10y ago
  About 15 years ago I made the decision to halve my mousing strain by becoming equally adept at mousing with either hand and either with a mouse or a trackball. I have both plugged into my computer all the time, and I swap hands and devices a couple times a month. A great keyboard is important too. I only use IBM model M's made around 1984. And as is discussed at length in this thread - exercise! I hit the gym for 2 hours between 5 and 7pm and let almost nothing interfere with that. I have RSI pain yes - it comes with the job - but it's reached a steady-state that I can deal with.
• chipuni 10y ago
  Personal anecdote: I had crippling pain along my left side. I saw several doctors about it; they prescribed drugs that helped the immediate pain but didn't solve the underlying problem. Then I read on https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0072780/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0072780/ that wearing a wrist brace AT NIGHT helps overcome carpal-tunnel. A good wrist brace cost me about $20; I've worn it every night since, and the carpal tunnel has gone away for me.
• Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
  I'm sure tensing up due to cold doesn't help. However, for me an ergonomic setup (in particular mouse and keyboard) has done wonders. Pain isn't 100% gone all the time, but it's not crippling agony where I can no longer make a fist. The other thing that makes a huge difference to me is sleep. Days I don't sleep long /well my wrist and fingers hurt more. I don't know if this is due to giving the body more time to repair or feeling more relaxed (less tense) throughout the day.
• INTPnerd 10y ago
  "As an Emacs user"... Switch to Vim. Problem solved.
• emodendroket 10y ago
  I went to an occupational therapist and she gave me a program of exercises and as long as I do them I can keep my RSI in check. I definitely recommend occupational therapy if you think you are developing RSI. Of course you should also make basic ergonomic improvements like getting your keyboard at the right height (unless you have a keyboard tray it probably isn't); those are helpful too. e: Also the Sarno book this guy recommends has always struck me as pseudo-scientific nonsense. I like Pascarelli and Quilter's Repetitive Strain Injury and Damany's It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome! e2: Also if your first impulse is to go buy a wrist brace that is completely wrong.
• joshribakoff 10y ago
  Switching from a mouse to an apple magic track pad helped my pain a lot. I recommend giving it a try.
• cptskippy 10y ago
  I started having really bad wrist pain and numbness in my hands and fingers. It ended up being the desk height that caused it. Got a lower desk, pain vanished.
• hexsprite 10y ago
  One thing that has improved wrist pain for me is reducing inflammation. Avoiding sources of inflammation like excess sugar and other high GI index foods, low quality processed oils, biotoxins, allergens have helped me reduce my RSI. Foods and supplements like omega 3, coconut oil, ghee, turmeric, lots of greens, bone broth and more have helped to keep the inflammation down. Exercise is also super helpful but may not addressing the root cause of the problem.
• tynan 10y ago
  Small anecdote that may help someone: I finally got RSI. I knew it would happen eventually since I'm on my computer all the time, so I just accepted it. When the pain in my wrist became too much, I'd shift positions or take a rest. Then one day it occurred to me that I had gotten RSI right after getting a new watch. I loosened the watch by one notch and all symptoms disappeared.
• kylecordes 10y ago
  I arrived here with 167 comments already present, and am very surprised to find I am the first to offer the following: A few years ago, I started feeling frequent hand and wrist pain. At the time I was writing a lot of code and also a lot of text. To attempt to fix it: 1) I learned more keyboard shortcuts and refactoring tools, so that I could write more code with less finger use. 2) I picked up a voice dictation system, went through the tedious process of getting comfortable with it, and switched to it for nearly all of my non-programming work. Between these two things, I estimate my keyboard use declined by perhaps 75%. My productivity increased. Pain completely disappeared. Total cost, a few hundred dollars, including a decent wireless headset.
• dmfdmf 10y ago
  Sarno worked for me. Ignore his "rage" theory derived from Freud and just use his techniques. It worked for my arm and wrist pain. Now, whenever I experience ANY bodily pain (knee, back, hip, etc.) I assume it is subconsciously generated and use Sarno's techniques. If that fails then rest + advil will usually do the trick.
• RomanPushkin 10y ago
  What hand warmers would you guys recommend?
• RomanPushkin 10y ago
  What hand warmers would you guys recommend?
• AlaShiban 10y ago
  The mobo chair mount has been the most transformative product that reduced/eliminated RSI for me. For years, I tried to find better tables, better chairs, better mice/keyboards, postures - The problem turned out to be in the seams between products, not the individual pieces. The mobo mount solves this by throwing away the table component from the keyboard/mouse equation - solving most posture problems. Try it out. https://www.amazon.com/Mobo-Chair-Mount-Keyboard-System/dp/B002YERS32/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1479521391&sr=1-1&keywords=mobo+chair+mount https://www.amazon.com/Mobo-Chair-Mount-Keyboard-System/dp/B...
• sandGorgon 10y ago
  This is an article by Aaron Iba (founder of Etherpad and ex-YC partner) - http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.html http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm... It changed my life after a year of RSI - validated on multiple people.
• TACIXAT 10y ago
  My wrist was aching from twisting to hit the arrow keys and numpad, as I would keep my arm in the same position and just reach by angling my wrist. I got a 60% mechanical keyboard with a function layer and it is great.
• Gruselbauer 10y ago
  I do pretty much everything wrong in terms of ergonomic working. No wrist rest, no typing technique, sit however fits the day. The only thing I don't have in common with the OP is that I'm constantly hot. Sitting in a room with no heating at 1000m above sea in the Alps right now, wearing a light track suit and only registering a mild cold. I haven't turned on heating in ages, actually. The article does suggest psychosomatic causes more than anything, imho. Especially people with neither medical training (me included) or prior contact with that phenomenon (me excluded) often seem to think about this as a question of willpower, a conscious decision or a few sessions with a therapist. I beg to differ. If your hands pain you to the point of forcing you to change careers and there's no physiologically pinpointable reason, I don't see how the most complex parts of our bodies could not play a leading role.
• throwaway_xx9 10y ago
  1) Moving from C/Java to a scripting language can reduce typing enough to alleviate RSI. 2) Also changing from an editor that requires alt keys to vi.
• srinikoganti 10y ago
  After 6 years of struggle with this career ruining pain, I finally found my remedy in Homeopathy. Medicine name is "Bellis Perennis". In olden days it was a popular medicine to treat RSI of Pianists and Stitching workers. I had taken "Belllis Perennis, 1M potency" 3 times(about 20 small pills each time) in only one day. That's it. No need of taking it again. If pain doesn't go away in a week try 1 more day after 1 week. No side effects, since it is Homeopathy. Since I am not a doctor, Please check with Homeopathy doctor before taking it. Thanks..
  • olivierlacan 10y ago
    Or check a licensed Medical Doctor who understands biology. 1M potency in context: > 30C (diluted 30 times), 200C (diluted 200 times), 1M (1000 dilutions), and 10M (10,000 dilutions). > A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 1080 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10320 more atoms to simply have one molecule in the final substance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• delbel 10y ago
  I had it pretty bad and thought my career might be over. Then by mistake, I bought a truck with no power steering, and then started doing push ups first thing in the morning. Also I spent hundreds of hours making my desktop mouse free and have dozens of flux-box macro, and various IDE key board sequences memorized so that I never had to move my hand to the mouse and back.
• jordache 10y ago
  I can not stand keyboards with high pressure threshold on the keys. My constant Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+F, etc.. was causing tremendous pain on my pinky finger, from having to press down on the Ctrl key so many times.
• Uroboric 10y ago
  Only a year or so into my career I started getting pain in my upper right back from using a mouse. I tried various adjustments to my desk/chair setup but eventually it got to the point where I couldn't use the mouse with my right arm anymore without unbearable pain and it would linger when I wasn't working. I was able to solve the problem completely by starting to use a trackball with my left arm. I still use a mouse with the right when precision is necessary but 90% of the time I use the left and trackball.
• SmokyBorbon 10y ago
  Before spending all that time and money on new equipment and treatments why didn't op consider using something other than emacs?
• visarga 10y ago
  I cured chronic back pain that I have been suffering for a decade with Calcium and Magnesium supplements. They are cheap - 1 dollar for 20 effervescent pills - and make me feel 10-15 years younger. Another benefit is better sleep (no more chronic tiredness) and less anxiety. If you have chronic pain check out Ca and Mg - they are essential for muscles. My discovery was by chance, I have been going to doctors, gym, yoga and massage for years with no results. Even run blood tests and they still didn't catch it. Now, I can tell by the feeling in my body when I need a Calcium. TL;DR - Calcium is for muscle pain. Magnesium is for better sleep, chronic tiredness and anxiety.
• osman84 10y ago
  Did no one notice that OP has affiliate tagged his links to that book, and so is making money off of anyone who clicks through and buys it? In the spirit of objectivity, that should be disclosed.
• ijidak 10y ago
  I've had similar problems. And the same thing worked for me. Seeing that it worked for this person as well, reaffirms that this might be a permanent solution. Whenever I code without long sleeves, I start to feel pain again. I haven't tried hand warmers; I might have to try that too. It makes sense though. Carpal tunnel and other repetitive stress syndromes come down to low blood flow. I've also used aspirin to beneficial effect, when the carpal tunnel starts flaring up. And the aspirin helped as well. At the end of the day it seems like it's all about blood flow. Doctors wanted to do surgery and I turned it down, and just keeping the blood flowing, by staying warm has helped quite a bit. (Of course, along with regular breaks too.)
• elcct 10y ago
  It looks like it is pretty common for companies to neglect air conditioning. What's the point in having fancy office if the air makes you dizzy after an hour and no amount of coffee can make a difference or the temperature. One days cold as f, another day let's all go naked and drink ice tea...
• mindcrime 10y ago
  I've had a little on-again, off-again RSI trouble over the years. A couple of years ago, this topic came up on HN, and I picked up a very useful tip. Somebody shared that they had (heard|learned|observed|whatever) that most of the damage resulting in RSI happens while you sleep, not while you type. So they started wearing a wrist brace to bed and it fixed their problem. In my case, it turned out that wearing the wrist brace to bed also helped tremendously. Usually if I have an RSI flareup, I make it a point to wear the brace to bed (and possibly also during the day a bit, but not all the time) for a few days, and the pain goes away. All of that said, knock on wood I guess, as I haven't had a serious flareup of wrist pain in quite some time now. Not sure why, but I'll take it.
• tluyben2 10y ago
  (warning, anecdotal) I have been behind a computer full time (>= 8 hrs/day) (usually including weekend) for over 30 years now, I take breaks for exercise, cooking & parties and have done for most of that 30 years. I have found, for myself anyway, that RSI has zippo to do with the amount of typing, mousing or work I do. I have done years of 12 hr days full on typing and I have gotten beginning RSI symptoms from a few weeks of stressful meetings with very little typing in between. As I was young then and did not want to waste time not being able to lift my arms or move my wrists, I experimented and found that, again for me, it's just 100% stress. Any exercise (none, too little or too much), working 20 hours or 2 hours are completely unrelated for the onset; if there is a stress factor (like; our new product is not selling!! back then) I would get symptoms immediately and they would get worse once started when typing/mousing more if the stress factor stayed constant. After that and other health events triggered by (much heavier) stresses, I got my brain to not stress (took me a lot of years) and that worked. I can just work forever behind a computer (which I usually don't need anymore, as I found also that it's completely useless to work many hours / day) without any effects for the past 13-something years.
• meirelles 10y ago
  I suffered from intense pain on wrist/arm. After starting the gym (weight lifting + cardio), the problem ended. Zero. I mean, it's been 10 years without ANY pain. The benefits are many for those who work sitting all day long.
• codingdave 10y ago
  RSI is a category of problems, and everyone will have their own specific flavor of problem. While there is a lot of good advice out there, just ask a doctor. They can diagnose exactly what is wrong, and filter the advice down to the problem that you actually have.
• latifnanji27 10y ago
  I've had this specific problem and solved it with Dr Sarno's book. It changed my life. I was able to create a startup (that I longed to do..) and I've never been happier.
  • latifnanji27 10y ago
    And its NOT RSI. It's TMS.
• msluyter 10y ago
  I've found that there are a number of different prescriptions for RSI pain, and that you have to experiment until you find what works for you. But that's complicated by the fact that it's hard to run experiments on yourself because there are so many confounding variables. In any event, to add to the anecdata, someone below recommends not resting your arms/wrists on anything and letting your hands float above the keyboard. I've tried this, and the small muscles in my back that keep the arms lifted would become sore bundles of fire that eventually would spread pain throughout my back/neck/arms/wrists. I found, paradoxically, that totally resting my arms splayed wide on my desk combined with a Kinesis Freestyle so I can keep my wrists straight (this wouldn't work with a regular keyboard) is the ideal setup for me.[1] Not saying this would work for everyone. [1] I have a standing desk combined with a high chair oriented such that the desk comes a bit higher on my chest than a sitting desk would, such that I can just rest my arms on the desk. The keyboard is not elevated and is basically flat to the desk surface, and is separated and angled such that my wrists are not bent.
  • wingworks 10y ago
    Agreed, this is what works best for me too, the high desk and high chair.
• zackola 10y ago
  I also bike to work every day. I was not having chronic pain, but mild discomfort and one thing that made a difference was changing my bike handlebars to more be more upright instead of a flatbar style. These are the handlebars I ended up with and couldn't be happier. http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/vo-left-bank-handlebar-config.html http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars... They Allow my wrists to stay straight instead of bent back.
• wtcross 10y ago
  Exercise....
• scottlu2 10y ago
  I had a similar experience: keeping my hands warm while keyboarding made all the difference. Before this I was at 20% use for 3 years, tried multiple things, went to multiple doctors, etc. I also: wear a pil-o-splint while sleeping so that area of my wrist can relax at night, make sure my hands are warm and that I've stretched before starting for the day, and changed my typing posture so that my hands are mostly flat and wrists don't touch the desk/keyboard while typing. Finally, I stopped using emacs and the like because of the control key induced hand/finger stretching. Vim is more RSI friendly in my experience because there is less stretching required to use it.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• fillskills 10y ago
  Ok, this home remedy has worked for me and my family - Dip your hands in Hot water + Mustard oil + salt. A few times and the paid is gone for 1-3 months based on how frequently you keep up with bad posture (working with laptop in bed etc).
• dkersten 10y ago
  I'll add my own anecdote: I had an RSI "scare" about ten years ago while I was a student and similar things worked for me. I started to wear fingerless gloves or other things to keep my joints warm while typing and I took steps to reduce non-physical stress. I also took more breaks and made an effort to keep my hands aligned better. I did the latter two first and by themselves didn't notice any change but all together, my pain went away. Now I try to not type with cold hands when possible, try to keep my joints neutrally positioned and not type for too long at a time. I also used a mechanical keyboard for a long time (which requires very little pressure to activate the keys) and learned the Colemak keyboard layout. I haven't had any relapses although on busy days I can sometimes feel pressure building in my hands (I then take a break and do some stretches).
• muxxa 10y ago
  None of the comments so far seem to have picked up on the mention of caffeine. For me this was the revelation; paying attention to how a strong cup of coffee alters my posture and increases tension from my back through to my wrists. I also notice myself long-pressing shift/ctrl/alt keys in a state which I can only describe as 'over-determination'. (Funnily enough, a large pot of green tea delivers a steadier dose of caffeine and doesn't seem to produce these negative effects) Not everyone is affected this way and I believe the root cause that caffeine exacerbates is the particular kind of stress you feel when you want to get something done already, a typical state of mind to be in running a startup. Stress and psychological factors feed directly into bad posture and this is why taking regular breaks only upped my stress levels as now I needed to work even faster. Lastly on the level of equipment fixes, ensure your elbows are supported by arm rests.
• mchahn 10y ago
  A very simple way to fix wrist problems is to switch hands for the mouse. I had carpal tunnel bad enough to stop me from using a mouse at all and then I tried switching hands. At first my useless left had couldn't click on the side of a barn. After a week or so I was using my left hand with no problem and after a month I was as good as with my right. A year later I happened to be using a mouse with my right hand and I discovered there was no pain. So I actually fixed my problem.