11 ms·
WikipediaP2P
- robius 10y agowouldn't cloudflare be more effective?
- giosch 10y agoCloudflare is not free
- MrWonderful 10y agoYes, it actually is, I use it for a simple website I use. It actually decreases the load on it. But, you lack a lot of features and you can increase it. It cost like $20 or more per month up into $100 per month it depends I think. But, they probably don't want to go this route. https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/ https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/
- atmosx 10y agoI'm sure CloudFlare's free plan doesn't target websites with the amount of traffic wikipedia has. Come to think of it, it is interesting that they server all this traffic using Varnish + HHVM/3.3.0.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cpach 10y agoCould you see any reasons why people want to explore alternative options to Cloudflare?
- dx034 10y agoI can see that not everyone likes Cloudflare, but generally a CDN that allows cheap delivery of the bandwidth heavy parts (e.g. images and scripts) makes probably more sense in reality than P2P. While the P2P idea is very nice, most residential lines are heavily geared towards download speed. Upload speed is often only 5-10% of the overall speed. Using a P2P network outside of your Lan will probably lead to a slower experience than using a CDN that has PoPs very close to you. Now I'm pretty sure that Cloudflare would save Wikipedia at least 95% of bandwidth with the free tiers. And I don't think that Cloudflare would complain, the gain of having them as clients would be larger than the costs for bandwidth. Similar for other providers, Wikipedia and their traffic levels would probably get very cheap offers. But I can also understand that it would somehow question the independence of Wikipedia from corporate interests. That's why they didn't do it.
- iansowinski 10y agoHmmm, maybe thats the option for saving twitter?
- fermuch 10y agoCheck out mastodon.social :)
- iansowinski 10y agoLook nice, but problem with social network services is usually all about number of users :) Remember diaspora?
- gield 10y agoI tested it in Chromium really quick. I have one small remark: when opening an article obtained by a peer (a green link) in a new tab, it just opens it in the same tab.
- rfrank 10y agoI feel like I should contribute more than a pun, but this is a missed opportunity for wikip2pedia.org. The domain is available.
- posterboy 10y agothats gold rfrank, gold
- gield 10y agoFor the sake of testing it, I have opened nearly every link in the introduction of the Nikolas Tesla [0] page, the one used in the example. It should now be possible to at least obtain all those articles through me, and hopefully also through other people. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
- janus24 10y agoDoesn't seems to work for me, all links are orange.
- qznc 10y agoIt burns CPU like crazy for me. Would not use it on battery.
- vanderZwan 10y ago> WikipediaP2P uses WebRTC for all Peer to Peer communication. Is this a sign that WebRTC isn't optimised yet, or is it the extension itself that needs some love?
- exadeci 10y agoYup, nice concept but pushing my high end I5 to 100% usage on a first page load and getting chrome to freeze is not a viable extension for me.
- teekert 10y agoI've been wondering, would one reach the same principle if one would pin the root folder of wikipedia on their own server using IPFS and then if wikipedia would point their domainname to the ipfs.io gateway with a hash for that folder, would Wikipedia auto update on my server and would IPFS provide the load balancing/p2p part? Or am I understanding IPFS or the ipfs.io gateway wrong? Does everything go through the ipfs.io server in that case? Or is it still distributed/torrent-like?
- tscs37 10y agoIf you want to do IPFS, you need to run IPFS locally to make it work, otherwise you're just redistributing bandwidth to the ipfs.io gateway. IMO the presented solution is a bit better since it only relies on WebRTC to establish P2P, no extra software required.
- lgierth 10y agoFor Wikipedia it would probably be more useful to embed js-ipfs [0] into pages, and fetch additional pages and assets after first one from ipfs. js-ipfs can currently speak WebRTC to peer with other js-ipfs nodes, and websockets to peer with go-ipfs nodes. https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs
- Fang_ 10y agoSlightly related, there's Wikiwand: https://www.wikiwand.com/ https://www.wikiwand.com/
- executesorder66 10y agoHere's the cacheP2P discussion : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12752168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12752168
- thecatspaw 10y agohow does it handle cache invalidation, eg when a page gets updated?
- nextweek2 10y agoI remember thinking about a similar concept a few years back. It would be good to have a p2p archive of human knowledge for end of the world scenarios. The problem is Bittorrent isn't the protocol for it, it doesn't allow incremental changes. You also don't want the complete history like git, you want something that passes a diff around. It would be great to have a p2p network with Wikipedia, a load of academic papers, maps and recipes, which anybody with a computer could contribute drive space to storing.
- markovbling 10y agoThe database dumps are surprisingly small - can store the whole thing on 2 TB hard drive incl media - or 64GB SD card if you just want the SQL database with text and metadata
- qznc 10y agoIf you factor in the overhead of p2p, it is probably cheaper, if operating systems come with a few hundred MB of the more popular Wikipedia pages.
- markovbling 10y agoThe database dumps are surprisingly small - can store the whole thing on 2 TB hard drive incl media - or 64GB SD card if you just want the SQL database with text and metadata
- kem 10y agoI agree with your last statement, and think this is a great proof-of-concept for distributed networking. I worry, though, that this space is fracturing in a way that's hampering adoption. Between Freenet, Zeronet, IFPS, I2P, not to mention things like Retroshare, Matrix, and so forth, there's a lot of redundancy but with important differences between any given two solutions. I'm not sure what can be done about it, but it seems like something in this area needs a network effect to accelerate adoption, but to do that, it needs to be comprehensive in what it offers while also being sufficiently differentiable from other projects. It's great to see so much going on in this area, but it's getting difficult to know what does what, and where one might put some resources.
- Izeau 10y agoWhy the “Read and change all your data on the websites you visit” permission? Also, the “Fork me on GitHub” banner on your website is behind the fancy canvas so we can’t actually click it (Chrome 54). Great idea otherwise!
- Maakuth 10y agoI think changing the links to point to the cache instead of the original server needs that permission.
- dmytrish 10y agoAlso, a separate domain, wikipediap2p.org, not (obviously) affiliated with wikipedia.org. If it were p2p.wikipedia.org, it would be fine for me.
- b3n 10y agoIt says on the page: "This is an unofficial extension and not endorsed by Wikipedia in any way, it's just an implementation of latest web-technologies towards sharing of knowelege."
- stanislavb 10y agoThis seems like a decent project that has the potential to become very popular. I just tested it and it worked well; however, it clogged my CPU and the extension crushed in the end.
- krzyk 10y agoIt's a pitty it doesn't have a firefox plugin.
- elkos 10y agoShould be easy to do.
- tscs37 10y agoGDI, I just flipfloped to Firefox... I guess no P2P goodness until Firefox supports Chrome addons or the addon gets ported...
- elkos 10y agoFirefox supports Webextension addons in all current channels.
- lucb1e 10y agoHow can I download it then? The button just throws a javascript error, and with javascript disabled it's a dead thing. Going to the chrome web thingy store it only tries to get me to download google chrome.
- elliottcarlson 10y agohttps://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-foxified/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-... should help.
- artemisart 10y agoTry https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/chrome-store-foxified/ https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/chrome-store-fox... (not guaranteed to work, I didn't test it)
- tscs37 10y agoThanks!
- rkangel 10y agoIs it just me that gets put off by typos and other errors on a homepage? I feel like putting a little effort in to checking for obvious errors isn't too much to ask, but I may well be being overly snobby about such things, I'm curious. The two examples here are: > This color means it's rearching for that article. I assume that's meant to be 'searching' And: > This is an unofficial extension and not entitled by Wikipedia in any way I'm assuming 'entitled' is meant to be 'endorsed'.
- nicky0 10y agoI'm assuming non-native writer rather than sloppiness per se.
- rkangel 10y agoI'd considered that. That would explain the second, but the first has to be sloppiness. If nothing else, if you want to produce english content, set your spellchecker to english.
- GolDDranks 10y agoI think the first one is meant to be "reaching"?
- guerrerocarlos 10y agoBoth fixed, was my bad, if you see any other please tell me. Indeed non-native over here.
- insertnickname 10y agoI agree. By the way, you typo'd "things" as "thinks".
- rkangel 10y agoOh the irony. Corrected.
- pmlnr 10y agoWe'd be better off by putting wikipedia on IPFS and IPFS into p2p cache.
- cabalamat 10y agoThis could be a useful application to run on IPFS, which IMO needs a killer app to become widespread.
- goodplay 10y agoIf it's execution is similar to this project where hosting a page on your system is effortless (or at most a one-click affair), then it's definitely something I can get behind. You'll get the benefit of insuring off-line availability as well as only hosting pages you care about. Win-win.
- hobofan 10y agoI agree, but sadly IPFS still needs some optimization for that to be feasible. I published the whole Wikidata dataset as separately accessible entities to IPFS and the initial publishing took ~2 weeks. Theoretically updating the dataset with weekly changes should be pretty fast after that, but if there is a change that impacts the JSON structure of every entity you have to start all over (which recently happened). Right now Wikipedia/Wikidata is only really useful as a stress test for IPFS, but I'm optimistic for the future. For anyone interested in this there is some (slow) progress on this at https://github.com/ipfs-wikidata https://github.com/ipfs-wikidata , though it's admittedly a low priority for me right now, as I wait for the technical state of IPFS to improve.
- lgierth 10y agoPerformance of adding to IPFS has improved in the past months, I recently added 3.7 TB of https://cdn.media.ccc.de https://cdn.media.ccc.de and it took ~24h, admittedly these files are each pretty big, while Wikidata sounds like tons of tiny files. One more major improvement is on the way, which is directory sharding using a HAMT data structure: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3042 https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3042
- yitchelle 10y agoI wonder if this concept could be extended to site aggregator such as HN or Reddit? The amount of bandwidth saved could be significant.
- timlyo 10y agoI don't think it would work all that well with content that changes so often.
- oceanofsolaris 10y agoI understand that this is an early implementation. Nevertheless, I have a question: how does it make sure the site you receive is actually the a) correct one (someone could distribute incorrect pages e.g. about controversial topics like North Korea or Climate Change; or inject some malicious code that e.g. uses your account to submit changes to wikipedia) b) most recent one (or at least a reasonably new one). I imagine the first one could maybe be somehow guaranteed through the protocol. Maybe you can just solve the second by invalidating your local copy after it is more than one day old. The github link on the homepage does sadly not work for me (firefox on linux), so I can't check.
- osense 10y ago> controversial topics like [..] Climate Change You're making me sad on a Friday afternoon.
- oceanofsolaris 10y agoLet's reformulate it then: topics where some actors have a strong incentive (monetary or emotional) to manipulate other peoples opinion.
- osense 10y agoI guess that's better :) To expand a bit on my previous comment, the sad part is that even though we know that the topic is not really controversial scientifically, we somehow, subconsciously, refer to it as one. Elections and all that.
- ensignavenger 10y agoEven accepting the science, there is plenty of room for controversy over what actions should be taken as a result.
- blackflame7000 10y ago
- fiatjaf 10y agoStop using my internet connection without my consent!
- detaro 10y agoHow is a browser extension you explicitly have to install, from a page that explains what it does, "using your internet connection without consent"?
- SticksAndBreaks 10y agoThe guild of censors disapproves..
- zymhan 10y agoSo if I wanted to donate my computing resources and bandwidth to hosting this, should I just install the plugin and leave chrome running on my "server"?
- shmerl 10y agoNo Firefox support?
- discreditable 10y agoA better way to support Wikipedia would be to donate. $10 probably covers more than the strain you put on Wikipedia for a year. https://donate.wikimedia.org/ https://donate.wikimedia.org/
- atom_enger 10y agoI encourage a repeating donation. If you work a tech job you can very likely afford 5/month. The site has changed my life for the better and I constantly find myself on there satisfying whatever is piquing my curiosity at the moment. To be clear, I'm not affiliated in any way just a huge supporter.
- rocky1138 10y agoThere is no way I'm installing this with those permissions requests. All data on all websites I visit? No way.
- shinski 10y agofixing a typo on the main page would help improve its apparent legitimacy. >""This is an unofficial extension and not endorsed by Wikipedia in any way, it's just an implementation of latest web-technologies towards sharing of knowelege."" <---knowledge
- shinski 10y agofixing a typo on the main page would help improve its apparent legitimacy. >""This is an unofficial extension and not endorsed by Wikipedia in any way, it's just an implementation of latest web-technologies towards sharing of knowelege."" <---knowledge
- grondilu 10y agoThis seems to be introducing synchronisation issues or something. I've just made an edit on an article, when I go back to it I see the edited version only if I manually refresh the page.