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> Nothing listed is a backdoor. I'm baffled. I like to think of the quality of HN comments as much higher. Apple had options to make this data unavailable by

> Nothing listed is a backdoor. I'm baffled. I like to think of the quality of HN comments as much higher. Apple had options to make this data unavailable by design to themselves and to law enforcement. They chose a design so that they could provide this information. The phone does it without the user's consent. However, I understand that there are people who would rather redefine terminology to suit their cognitive dissonance. In any case we can agree on the following: ----------- Apple provides a near majority of your sensitive information to law enforcement by the design of the product, and you can not use the product in a meaningful way without that information becoming available to state surveillance and state law enforcement.

Whitestrake 10y ago
It's not a backdoor because there is nothing bypassing the security of your iPhone. All the data supplied comes from Apple's records, not your phone. If your phone was destroyed one day, and law enforcement requested this information the next, Apple would have no issue supplying it. They're not going to simply "not keep" records of your iTunes transactions and account details, for example. Your complaints regarding the inability to use their product in a meaningful manner without letting Apple collect this data have merit.
givinguflac 10y ago
This is silly, you can absolutely use the product in a meaningful way without exposing data. Just don't use iCloud or iMessage (just use SMS) problem solved; no personal anything will go to their servers.
willstrafach 10y ago
There is no redefinition occurring here. Your claim was this: > Yes Apple backdoors their phones for government surveillance access. That very specifically is referring to the phone itself. Nobody would be arguing if you had said: "Apple hands over non-encrypted information (such as webmail and other data that cannot be encrypted at a higher level) from iCloud and iTunes Store servers, in response to a valid legal demand"

Whitestrake 10y ago

It's not a backdoor because there is nothing bypassing the security of your iPhone. All the data supplied comes from Apple's records, not your phone. If your phone was destroyed one day, and law enforcement requested this information the next, Apple would have no issue supplying it. They're not going to simply "not keep" records of your iTunes transactions and account details, for example. Your complaints regarding the inability to use their product in a meaningful manner without letting Apple collect this data have merit.

givinguflac 10y ago

This is silly, you can absolutely use the product in a meaningful way without exposing data. Just don't use iCloud or iMessage (just use SMS) problem solved; no personal anything will go to their servers.

willstrafach 10y ago

There is no redefinition occurring here. Your claim was this: > Yes Apple backdoors their phones for government surveillance access. That very specifically is referring to the phone itself. Nobody would be arguing if you had said: "Apple hands over non-encrypted information (such as webmail and other data that cannot be encrypted at a higher level) from iCloud and iTunes Store servers, in response to a valid legal demand"