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> According to research published last year, spending a day in Beijing is currently akin to smoking almost 40 cigarettes. Decoupling emissions from economic gro

> According to research published last year, spending a day in Beijing is currently akin to smoking almost 40 cigarettes. Decoupling emissions from economic growth thus helps both people and planet. Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge. How is convincing Trump here the answer? Isn't convincing China more important? How about convincing the American people? Do this and politicians will follow. Perhaps if Trump can bring back more industry to the US, he is on his way to helping already.

knowaveragejoe 10y ago
I think all of the above are part of the answer. Convincing Trump not to try to prop up coal as he's promised.
- Delmania 10y ago
  The Republican leadership has already said there's not much that can be done because coal is private and that government money shouldn't be spent on it. They know, and have known for some time, that coal is a dying industry, but you have to appeal to voters.
papercrane 10y ago
China is convinced.[1] The American public is convinced, although not as much as they probably should be.[2][3][4] The problem here is to convince world leaders to actually do something. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tells-trump-that-climate-change-is-no-hoax-it-invented http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tell... [2] http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinions-in-the-states/ http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinion... [3] https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ [4] http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eight-year-high.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eig...
- strictnein 10y ago
  China is convinced? Then China should tell China to stop building coal power plants. They burn slightly more coal than the rest of the world combined. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...
  - papercrane 10y ago
    > China is convinced? Then China should tell China to stop building coal power plants. You realise you're source says they're doing exactly that? "In guidelines released on Monday, China halted plans for new coal-fired power stations in many parts of the country, and construction of some approved plants will be postponed until at least 2018." They've also gone all in on solar, having more installed capacity than any other nation. They're far from perfect, but they've started to acknowledge the problem at least.
    - problems 10y ago
      Not only that, but they've taken all these steps while they're bringing hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty doing sustenance farming and into cities. Cities where they want things like electricity and cars. Look at the history of the world, development like that is usually fueled by burning as many hydrocarbons as possible. It's very good to see a country able now to at least start to break away from that. The rapidly dropping price of solar, thanks in large part to China plays a big role in that.
  - yellow_postit 10y ago
    Despite setbacks China is also actively building up more nuclear capacity, something I wish was taken more seriously in the US http://energypost.eu/china-2016-year-nuclear-power/ http://energypost.eu/china-2016-year-nuclear-power/
  - hayavuk 10y ago
    China also has a sizable population to match.
jameskilton 10y ago
I'm confused with this statement but I'll try to clear up something you seem to be missing. 1) China is already convinced. It's in the article. They are the world-leading user of solar power and are pushing harder than anyone to get away from dirty power. 2) Trump wants to push and invest in dirty power. He wants to significantly increase the production of coal and gas. The very stuff that causes global warming. Convincing Trump is about saving the world from itself. If Trump has his way, the last 20 years of progress towards renewable energy will be wiped out, with a strong possibility of making life very difficult for humanity in the next 50 - 100 years.
- strictnein 10y ago
  > are pushing harder than anyone to get away from dirty power. Where do you gather that from? They use more coal than the entirety of the rest of the world combined. Their coal usage has more than doubled over the past ~15 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...
  - leereeves 10y ago
    This is from your link: > Now Beijing is trying to slow things down. > In guidelines released on Monday, China halted plans for new coal-fired power stations in many parts of the country, and construction of some approved plants will be postponed until at least 2018. Whether this will amount to anything, who can say?
    - derrickdirge 10y ago
      It seems like for it to amount to anything, they would also have to close down currently operational plants.
  - nyolfen 10y ago
    china's coal use peaked by 2014: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/2015/China-coal-data-indicates-consumption-fell-in-2014-shows-peak-coal-achievable/ http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/20...
brian-armstrong 10y ago
We (the US) are in a good position to lead the renewables industry, and part of that is dogfooding what we make. But that dogfooding is harder if our domestic nonrenewable prices are low. Yes that means that, for now, those products aren't fully competitive. But they could get there with scale, and we get that scale by rolling them out domestically. It helps us build this industry in the long term. China is also jumping on this opportunity, by the way. I saw an article recently that competitive solar will be a big focus point for its electronics industry.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  The US would be in great position to take the lead here. For example, I don't understand why not every house in Southern California is covered with solar panels. Instead Trump's program seems to be to burn as much coal and oil as possible.
- malnourish 10y ago
  This is exactly what I think we should be doing (as a nation). We should be pushing innovation and becoming a leader in R&D for green energy. It seems like a fantastic way of creating jobs and I have a hard time comprehending why people are so resistant to it.
  - brian-armstrong 10y ago
    I hate to beat this drum, but it comes down to money. Oil and coal spend so much money spreading false information about the issues, so it's hard for people to be informed about what our options actually are.
    - indlebe 10y ago
      Not to mention that Oil and Coal are sources of energy where western corporations directly profit. Not so much with solar and nuclear.
  - Delmania 10y ago
    Fear. Put yourself in the shoes of a 50-year-old coal miner who's had the same job since he was age 18. You lose your job, and the town in which you live is starting to decline because the major source of money is gone. You have no idea how your going to pay for your bills and food. Do you really think such a person is going to be enthusiastic for retraining for a new, competing with younger people, and moving? Or do you think this person would rather support politicians who promise to restore the coal mining industry?
the8472 10y ago
As far as building renewables is concerned both countries are currently doing their share. But that trend needs to accelerate and at the same time fossil sources need to be scaled back. Trump's statements on energy policy are mostly contrary to the latter part. http://www.ren21.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REN12-GSR2015_Onlinebook_low1.pdf http://www.ren21.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REN12-GSR201... (page 20)

knowaveragejoe 10y ago

I think all of the above are part of the answer. Convincing Trump not to try to prop up coal as he's promised.

Delmania 10y ago
The Republican leadership has already said there's not much that can be done because coal is private and that government money shouldn't be spent on it. They know, and have known for some time, that coal is a dying industry, but you have to appeal to voters.

papercrane 10y ago

China is convinced.[1] The American public is convinced, although not as much as they probably should be.[2][3][4] The problem here is to convince world leaders to actually do something. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tells-trump-that-climate-change-is-no-hoax-it-invented http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tell... [2] http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinions-in-the-states/ http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinion... [3] https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ [4] http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eight-year-high.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eig...

strictnein 10y ago
China is convinced? Then China should tell China to stop building coal power plants. They burn slightly more coal than the rest of the world combined. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...
- papercrane 10y ago
  > China is convinced? Then China should tell China to stop building coal power plants. You realise you're source says they're doing exactly that? "In guidelines released on Monday, China halted plans for new coal-fired power stations in many parts of the country, and construction of some approved plants will be postponed until at least 2018." They've also gone all in on solar, having more installed capacity than any other nation. They're far from perfect, but they've started to acknowledge the problem at least.
  - problems 10y ago
    Not only that, but they've taken all these steps while they're bringing hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty doing sustenance farming and into cities. Cities where they want things like electricity and cars. Look at the history of the world, development like that is usually fueled by burning as many hydrocarbons as possible. It's very good to see a country able now to at least start to break away from that. The rapidly dropping price of solar, thanks in large part to China plays a big role in that.
- yellow_postit 10y ago
  Despite setbacks China is also actively building up more nuclear capacity, something I wish was taken more seriously in the US http://energypost.eu/china-2016-year-nuclear-power/ http://energypost.eu/china-2016-year-nuclear-power/
- hayavuk 10y ago
  China also has a sizable population to match.

jameskilton 10y ago

I'm confused with this statement but I'll try to clear up something you seem to be missing. 1) China is already convinced. It's in the article. They are the world-leading user of solar power and are pushing harder than anyone to get away from dirty power. 2) Trump wants to push and invest in dirty power. He wants to significantly increase the production of coal and gas. The very stuff that causes global warming. Convincing Trump is about saving the world from itself. If Trump has his way, the last 20 years of progress towards renewable energy will be wiped out, with a strong possibility of making life very difficult for humanity in the next 50 - 100 years.

strictnein 10y ago
> are pushing harder than anyone to get away from dirty power. Where do you gather that from? They use more coal than the entirety of the rest of the world combined. Their coal usage has more than doubled over the past ~15 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...
- leereeves 10y ago
  This is from your link: > Now Beijing is trying to slow things down. > In guidelines released on Monday, China halted plans for new coal-fired power stations in many parts of the country, and construction of some approved plants will be postponed until at least 2018. Whether this will amount to anything, who can say?
  - derrickdirge 10y ago
    It seems like for it to amount to anything, they would also have to close down currently operational plants.
- nyolfen 10y ago
  china's coal use peaked by 2014: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/2015/China-coal-data-indicates-consumption-fell-in-2014-shows-peak-coal-achievable/ http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/20...

brian-armstrong 10y ago

We (the US) are in a good position to lead the renewables industry, and part of that is dogfooding what we make. But that dogfooding is harder if our domestic nonrenewable prices are low. Yes that means that, for now, those products aren't fully competitive. But they could get there with scale, and we get that scale by rolling them out domestically. It helps us build this industry in the long term. China is also jumping on this opportunity, by the way. I saw an article recently that competitive solar will be a big focus point for its electronics industry.

maxxxxx 10y ago
The US would be in great position to take the lead here. For example, I don't understand why not every house in Southern California is covered with solar panels. Instead Trump's program seems to be to burn as much coal and oil as possible.
malnourish 10y ago
This is exactly what I think we should be doing (as a nation). We should be pushing innovation and becoming a leader in R&D for green energy. It seems like a fantastic way of creating jobs and I have a hard time comprehending why people are so resistant to it.
- brian-armstrong 10y ago
  I hate to beat this drum, but it comes down to money. Oil and coal spend so much money spreading false information about the issues, so it's hard for people to be informed about what our options actually are.
  - indlebe 10y ago
    Not to mention that Oil and Coal are sources of energy where western corporations directly profit. Not so much with solar and nuclear.
- Delmania 10y ago
  Fear. Put yourself in the shoes of a 50-year-old coal miner who's had the same job since he was age 18. You lose your job, and the town in which you live is starting to decline because the major source of money is gone. You have no idea how your going to pay for your bills and food. Do you really think such a person is going to be enthusiastic for retraining for a new, competing with younger people, and moving? Or do you think this person would rather support politicians who promise to restore the coal mining industry?

the8472 10y ago

As far as building renewables is concerned both countries are currently doing their share. But that trend needs to accelerate and at the same time fossil sources need to be scaled back. Trump's statements on energy policy are mostly contrary to the latter part. http://www.ren21.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REN12-GSR2015_Onlinebook_low1.pdf http://www.ren21.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REN12-GSR201... (page 20)