10 ms·

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was prett

by setq 10y ago

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened but my account was terminated suddenly. No warning and no explanation as my backup address was no longer valid. This was two years ago. I lost documents, account details, contacts, calendars, email history, conversations between people on hangouts plus my phone decided to ask me to sign in again and became as useless as a dumbphone instantly. Took about a month to reorganise my life and I lost contact with people, failed to complete tasks because my record was gone, lost control over my personal finances which were in Google sheets. Probably burned a week of my life on this as well. Now using a cheap Nokia 106, POP3 box with gandi.net, mozilla Firefox and lightning, encrypted USB sticks for backup and LibreOffice. Never been happier. I am genuinely afraid of going through this again. Everything remains portable between OS and provider now. Things are more volatile than we realise. I understand my father now. I'm not against using all in services like Google but you need backups, an exit plan and a DR strategy explaining where all the services will go plus the time to carry it out. If you don't have these or it's too expensive to do this even for a personal user, don't even cross the starting line with the product. Edit: Also beware of potential mergers, political whim and products being redacted or broken for long periods of time. All of these have affected me over the years.

Klover 10y ago
Questions: how did you get lightning assuming you're talking about the browser for Android which does indeed not require Google integration, on a Nokia 106? And is this link by Google not an easy enough of a solution for backing up your Google stuffs? https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en
- setq 10y ago
  I'm talking about Lightning as in the Mozilla calendar. I don't use a smartphone any more. Google takeout isn't or at least wasn't comprehensive at the time. There are other lock in items. Also it takes time and effort moving it somewhere else still, isn't instantly useable etc unless you can read vCards and iCal feeds..
perlpimp 10y ago
Going on a tangent, there should probably be a set of universal backup formats that can be advertised as being somewhat portable. So that, if you need to can take your mail and other online business stuff elsewhere if need be. Beyond this article a user might start working for some place that does not allow external app use, but they can bring their data with, to be loaded onto the service. I guess like github and git. but with mail and calendar stuff. my 2c.
- setq 10y ago
  Agree entirely. I considered forming a startup that did this after the fact.
- baybal2 10y ago
  Blatant violation of the First Sale doctrine. Class action lawsuit incoming in 3..2..
  - candiodari 10y ago
    I think the legal theory behind this would be that you have agreed that Google can terminate your account for any reason. Furthermore, they're not preventing you from reselling your phone at all - just deleting your account. Not "deleting your account if you do resell it" just deleting your account. First sale simply means they can't sue or get you arrested. They can do anything else with you, and refusing to do any further business with you certainly falls within that scope. Without additional laws there's nothing to do here. TLDR: never use your main Google, or Facebook, account for anything, not even buying a Google made phone, or buying Facebook ads for your own company, just never ever do that, so that at the very least, the pain is spread. They are businesses, and you do not want to give them a trivial way to retaliate or use this in a negotiation.
    - baybal2 10y ago
      >never use your main Google, or Facebook, account for anything, not even buying a Google made phone, or buying Facebook ads for your own company, just never ever do that, so that at the very least, the pain is spread. Be easy :) . I have 6 facebook accs for 5 of which I forgot passwords, 4 google accs out of which 3 got permalocked because sms confirmations simply never go through to half of Russian numbers, and I think 5 Paypal accounts all of which got blocked because "hey, you are the guy whom we blocked last year! you dared to register again? unforgivable!" Yes, don't keep things online, you will be better off
rebootthesystem 10y ago
I'll repeat what I said in my prior comment on this thread: We need a massive class action lawsuit against these companies ASAP. Google should not be allowed to cut someone off from all products without, at the very least, a reasonable period of time during which data is available in useful export formats, email still functions 100% so one can transition important accounts that use it, etc. Consumers are getting hurt in a big way by these giants and nobody is doing a thing about it.
- peller 10y ago
  While I don't disagree, and I'm not sure if this applies specifically to Google in this case, but as a general trend oftentimes users sign their class action rights away in the EULA by way of an arbitration clause.[0] This, in and of itself, is also IMO a huge abuse of power. But it's perfectly legal and only serves to further entrench the power of the monopolists. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_clause
  - waldfee 10y ago
    This clause will be null and void in most EU jurisdictions. So maybe from this side of the pond?
  - rebootthesystem 10y ago
    Agree and disagree. Nobody reads these things. Ergo, nobody agrees to them. Let's get it in front of a Jury. What do you want to bet that not one person in the Jury has ever read these incredibly one-sided, purposely obscure, usually incredibly long and complex agreements? Nobody. Not the Judge nor the Jury. Not to get political, this is precisely one of those things that earned Democrats a defeat. Demeaning and diminishing others eventually has consequences. Being completely insensitive to the needs and plight of average folks. To hide behind EULAs crafted by the powerful, for the powerful and damn you little insignificant people is disgusting. To think so little about people and users that it is deemed OK to upend their lives instantly by a mindless, heartless algorithm. This is the behavior of a mean vindictive totalitarian dictator, not of a business that purports to be guided by Democratic ideals and concepts such as "first do no evil". The hypocrisy is deep and wide. Nah, a Jury would destroy them.
z3t4 10y ago
Backups! Even in the cloud era you still need backups.
- pmlnr 10y ago
  This is not just about backups; this is the reason why I keep my mail on my own domain. ( It could by my own domain on gmail; it's not, but that a slightly different story ) This way I can move it to another company, alter DNS, do whatever I want with it to fix an issue. When you're relying on a company you cannot circumvent in a situation like this (xyz@gmail.com as primary address), you might end up not being able to use your primary account, which might effect your business. EDIT: I'm not going to address the problems with the DNS system itself, which is similarly flawed - you are only leasing a domain, not owning it, and the company maintaining it has the power over it. In theory, this could have been addressed with .onion IDs, but those are impossible to remember and with namecoin's .bit, bit this is not supported by enough real life DNS systems, so there is no alternative to that (yet).
Jaruzel 10y ago
> Now using a cheap Nokia 106, POP3 box with gandi.net +1 for gandi.net - they are great.
Rotareti 10y ago
That is why I stick to OSS like Linux, Thunderbird, nextcloud, etc. as much as possible. I got locked into a closed source platform once and it was a pain to get out of it. I will never let it happen again.
- joe563323 10y ago
  And for email ?
  - setq 10y ago
    The parent poster is correct and it's a good assertion. I'm doing the same thing, even though I'm using Windows as a base operating system, primarily for convenience at this point in time. Email is very portable if you keep it in a place you control. You're pretty much just paying for a collection and caching service if you use POP3/IMAP and store your important folders locally. That is portable in a couple of hours between hundreds or thousands of different companies who operate standard protocols. And then there's the possibility of running your own MX with postfix/dovecot etc if you really want.
  - distances 10y ago
    I'm myself using a non-profit email redirection service as my main e-mail address. They do not provide an email box, just the redirect, so they can keep the service lean with a very modest one-time fee for new members. This allows me to change the actual e-mail provider when needed. I already moved (successfully) away from Gmail, and I'm currently considering moving again as the spam protection of my current paid-for email service isn't that great. I think the redirection service is ingenious. Sadly it isn't available worldwide, so I won't advertise it here, but I'm sure there are others like that.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      How does it work for sending, though?
      - 10y ago
smonff 10y ago
The way Google made us used to transform an email box as a storage and backup place is terrifying. Sending 2Mo attachments become a norm[1] and lots of people consider having their life stored there. It just seem not sustainable. If you would do this with paper in the past, your place would just be full of junk. Our cloud life is an horrific stack of garbage. We just don't need most of the things we store, keeping everything as proof of evidences for a potential event that will surely never happen, as if we were all super important targets of an improbable crime scene. I hate this ideology. Thinking about getting out of it is perfectly sane. [1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean
- setq 10y ago
  Good points there. I tend to delete lots of things people might keep. I keep my inbox empty as well. Life is easier that way rather than deferring all the storage decisions later.
- lmm 10y ago
  > [1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean This is ridiculous reasoning. The best (though imperfect) proxy for the climate impact of a given service is how much it costs. If Google is giving away the service for free, it can't be costing them a lot of energy to run (or alternatively it's producing a lot of value for them).
  - __Joker 10y ago
    Also don't forget that We proxy pay google service with Ads. If you are paying something for free doesn't mean that there is no hidden costs. Also, I am not sure to about drawing a correlation between cost and climate impact.
  - intelliot 10y ago
    I don't have a good answer here, but I believe it may be instructive to consider externalities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality). For instance, think carefully about how they may apply here.
SonicSoul 10y ago
thanks for posting this cautionary tale. I am completely dependent on Google today so if that happened i'd be F'd. Will look into exporting all my emails this weekend. But why was Google unable to re-instate you? Was it because you had no way to prove your identity to them? Were you able to reach anyone? for those in similar situation you can back up your email/calendar here: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout/custom/gmail,calendar https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout/custom/gmail,cal...
- setq 10y ago
  Contacting Google support, unless you're an Apps customer which I wasn't, is a complete waste of time. Unless you can, to quote a colleague, piss through the eye of a needle, when it comes to the security questions and details then you can't even get over the first hurdle.
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    From any situation where your account has been disabled, I've seen a grand total of two positive resolution strategies: - Get a lawyer and have them contact. - Know a Googler personally.
    - setq 10y ago
      Any product which relies on knowing someone at the company or a good lawyer should be marked instantly as suspect! :)
- flanbiscuit 10y ago
  It would be great if someone put together a guide on how to migrate from a closed source systems (e.g. gmail, google drive, dropbox, etc) to open source systems. One with detailed, but easy to follow, instructions.
notheguyouthink 10y ago
Yup, this is what i'm trying to avoid by backing up my life. The data storage mechanism is my hardest point.. I like Camlistore, but really i'd love something that is accessible from anywhere. Eg, a distributed access system like IPFS, but for personal use only (closed network, as best possible) would be ideal. Including distributed though, it needs versioning like Camlistore. Ultimately i'll just go with Camlistore and likely build tools around the access UX. It's the best i've found, without rewriting it myself (too much work for too little gain atm, imo)
- setq 10y ago
  I really like the idea of Camlistore. But I really want something my family could actually handle if the worst came to the worst and that just happens to be bitlocker encrypted NTFS. Plug the stick in, plonk in a password and you have all my things.
  - notheguyouthink 10y ago
    What would prevent Camlistore from the same model? I guess if you're gone, the server might not be running properly, and they wouldn't know how to start it and etc. Ya? That's fair. I wonder if it would be worth it to write some type of camlistore extraction tool. Eg, plug in a USB, autoruns a script which mounts a blob store as a fuse FS. Hell, the blob store could be packed with the USB.. a sort of way to backup Camlistore that your family can always access. I actually like that idea. Fuse may not be a good access model (it's tied to unix of course), but maybe just a couple binaries that will auto run and display the stored camlistore blobstore. Sounds like a nifty project and nifty way to backup camlistore for family/non-tech oriented. No servers needed, no understanding of the tech you use. As fool-proof as you can make it. Thoughts on this related to your model?
    - setq 10y ago
      Some interesting ideas but I've got to ask: What if the ABI breaks, the CPU architecture changes or the project gives up at some point in the future? Ergo, I prefer to leave just the data. The data is hard enough on its own: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13367398 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13367398
jasim 10y ago
https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault - backs up your gmail account to a local db, and lets you restore it to another account.
- joshstrange 10y ago
  I'm a huge fan of GmVault. I backup all my email accounts with it to a home server that syncs my mailboxes over to Dropbox as well. Pretty painless to setup and very reassuring to know my mail is safe.
  - tripzilch 10y ago
    I have used GmVault before, but since now there's Google Takeout, doesn't that do everything GmVault does and more?
    - joshstrange 10y ago
      I can't speak to that. I've not looked at the output of Google Takeout. Also GmVault (for me at least) is 100% automated so I will at very worst lose 6hrs of email. Google Takeout is a manual process AFAIK.
gravypod 10y ago
I want to do the same but I don't know of anything that has Google-Level replacement for Drive/Docs/Sheets/Calendar. I really want one thought. If I can get Email, Document Storage (Docs, Spreadsheets, PowerPoints, Calendars) I'd move to a personal in-home solution ASAP. If it could integrate with Android via F-Droid apps I'd be even happier.
hobarrera 10y ago
The lesson you should have learnt here is to keep backups. I'm amazed at how people store all their stuff on a single company's servers, and keep no backup at all (either locally, or at some other company).
- setq 10y ago
  That was the lesson learned. Also that you should store everything in easy to access formats.
j45 10y ago
Ultimately information in the cloud, or anywhere is not backed up if it only exists in one place. Backing it up for one's self is essential. This leaves most people in two categories: those who haven't (yet) had a catastrophic, unrecoverable data loss, and those who have. Leaving it to others, or all your eggs with just one service is an invitation to the first group. What I can say is it's almost certain something unimaginable will happen, be it a data center, service shutting down, or something getting corrupted. I want to echo my experience of losing 16 years of email with Hotmail over at Microsoft due to the wind blowing arbitrarily in a different direction for a few months. I had my MSN messenger log in automatically to keep my account active on Hotmail, a criteria which was quietly ended. Unforgivable for me. Had some of it backed up luckily in real email clients but lost some critical emails and photos with a friend who passed away. People who either haven't generated enough of a digital footprint and lost it are going to be in for an inevitable surprise with the online services that they take for granted as being ubiquitous. While the cloud is awesome, it is still quite in it's infancy.

by setq 10y ago

Klover 10y ago

Questions: how did you get lightning assuming you're talking about the browser for Android which does indeed not require Google integration, on a Nokia 106? And is this link by Google not an easy enough of a solution for backing up your Google stuffs? https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en

setq 10y ago
I'm talking about Lightning as in the Mozilla calendar. I don't use a smartphone any more. Google takeout isn't or at least wasn't comprehensive at the time. There are other lock in items. Also it takes time and effort moving it somewhere else still, isn't instantly useable etc unless you can read vCards and iCal feeds..

perlpimp 10y ago

Going on a tangent, there should probably be a set of universal backup formats that can be advertised as being somewhat portable. So that, if you need to can take your mail and other online business stuff elsewhere if need be. Beyond this article a user might start working for some place that does not allow external app use, but they can bring their data with, to be loaded onto the service. I guess like github and git. but with mail and calendar stuff. my 2c.

setq 10y ago
Agree entirely. I considered forming a startup that did this after the fact.
baybal2 10y ago
Blatant violation of the First Sale doctrine. Class action lawsuit incoming in 3..2..
- candiodari 10y ago
  I think the legal theory behind this would be that you have agreed that Google can terminate your account for any reason. Furthermore, they're not preventing you from reselling your phone at all - just deleting your account. Not "deleting your account if you do resell it" just deleting your account. First sale simply means they can't sue or get you arrested. They can do anything else with you, and refusing to do any further business with you certainly falls within that scope. Without additional laws there's nothing to do here. TLDR: never use your main Google, or Facebook, account for anything, not even buying a Google made phone, or buying Facebook ads for your own company, just never ever do that, so that at the very least, the pain is spread. They are businesses, and you do not want to give them a trivial way to retaliate or use this in a negotiation.
  - baybal2 10y ago
    >never use your main Google, or Facebook, account for anything, not even buying a Google made phone, or buying Facebook ads for your own company, just never ever do that, so that at the very least, the pain is spread. Be easy :) . I have 6 facebook accs for 5 of which I forgot passwords, 4 google accs out of which 3 got permalocked because sms confirmations simply never go through to half of Russian numbers, and I think 5 Paypal accounts all of which got blocked because "hey, you are the guy whom we blocked last year! you dared to register again? unforgivable!" Yes, don't keep things online, you will be better off

rebootthesystem 10y ago

I'll repeat what I said in my prior comment on this thread: We need a massive class action lawsuit against these companies ASAP. Google should not be allowed to cut someone off from all products without, at the very least, a reasonable period of time during which data is available in useful export formats, email still functions 100% so one can transition important accounts that use it, etc. Consumers are getting hurt in a big way by these giants and nobody is doing a thing about it.

peller 10y ago
While I don't disagree, and I'm not sure if this applies specifically to Google in this case, but as a general trend oftentimes users sign their class action rights away in the EULA by way of an arbitration clause.[0] This, in and of itself, is also IMO a huge abuse of power. But it's perfectly legal and only serves to further entrench the power of the monopolists. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_clause
- waldfee 10y ago
  This clause will be null and void in most EU jurisdictions. So maybe from this side of the pond?
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  Agree and disagree. Nobody reads these things. Ergo, nobody agrees to them. Let's get it in front of a Jury. What do you want to bet that not one person in the Jury has ever read these incredibly one-sided, purposely obscure, usually incredibly long and complex agreements? Nobody. Not the Judge nor the Jury. Not to get political, this is precisely one of those things that earned Democrats a defeat. Demeaning and diminishing others eventually has consequences. Being completely insensitive to the needs and plight of average folks. To hide behind EULAs crafted by the powerful, for the powerful and damn you little insignificant people is disgusting. To think so little about people and users that it is deemed OK to upend their lives instantly by a mindless, heartless algorithm. This is the behavior of a mean vindictive totalitarian dictator, not of a business that purports to be guided by Democratic ideals and concepts such as "first do no evil". The hypocrisy is deep and wide. Nah, a Jury would destroy them.

z3t4 10y ago

Backups! Even in the cloud era you still need backups.

pmlnr 10y ago
This is not just about backups; this is the reason why I keep my mail on my own domain. ( It could by my own domain on gmail; it's not, but that a slightly different story ) This way I can move it to another company, alter DNS, do whatever I want with it to fix an issue. When you're relying on a company you cannot circumvent in a situation like this (xyz@gmail.com as primary address), you might end up not being able to use your primary account, which might effect your business. EDIT: I'm not going to address the problems with the DNS system itself, which is similarly flawed - you are only leasing a domain, not owning it, and the company maintaining it has the power over it. In theory, this could have been addressed with .onion IDs, but those are impossible to remember and with namecoin's .bit, bit this is not supported by enough real life DNS systems, so there is no alternative to that (yet).

Jaruzel 10y ago

> Now using a cheap Nokia 106, POP3 box with gandi.net +1 for gandi.net - they are great.

Rotareti 10y ago

That is why I stick to OSS like Linux, Thunderbird, nextcloud, etc. as much as possible. I got locked into a closed source platform once and it was a pain to get out of it. I will never let it happen again.

joe563323 10y ago
And for email ?
- setq 10y ago
  The parent poster is correct and it's a good assertion. I'm doing the same thing, even though I'm using Windows as a base operating system, primarily for convenience at this point in time. Email is very portable if you keep it in a place you control. You're pretty much just paying for a collection and caching service if you use POP3/IMAP and store your important folders locally. That is portable in a couple of hours between hundreds or thousands of different companies who operate standard protocols. And then there's the possibility of running your own MX with postfix/dovecot etc if you really want.
- distances 10y ago
  I'm myself using a non-profit email redirection service as my main e-mail address. They do not provide an email box, just the redirect, so they can keep the service lean with a very modest one-time fee for new members. This allows me to change the actual e-mail provider when needed. I already moved (successfully) away from Gmail, and I'm currently considering moving again as the spam protection of my current paid-for email service isn't that great. I think the redirection service is ingenious. Sadly it isn't available worldwide, so I won't advertise it here, but I'm sure there are others like that.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    How does it work for sending, though?
    - 10y ago

smonff 10y ago

The way Google made us used to transform an email box as a storage and backup place is terrifying. Sending 2Mo attachments become a norm[1] and lots of people consider having their life stored there. It just seem not sustainable. If you would do this with paper in the past, your place would just be full of junk. Our cloud life is an horrific stack of garbage. We just don't need most of the things we store, keeping everything as proof of evidences for a potential event that will surely never happen, as if we were all super important targets of an improbable crime scene. I hate this ideology. Thinking about getting out of it is perfectly sane. [1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean

setq 10y ago
Good points there. I tend to delete lots of things people might keep. I keep my inbox empty as well. Life is easier that way rather than deferring all the storage decisions later.
lmm 10y ago
> [1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean This is ridiculous reasoning. The best (though imperfect) proxy for the climate impact of a given service is how much it costs. If Google is giving away the service for free, it can't be costing them a lot of energy to run (or alternatively it's producing a lot of value for them).
- __Joker 10y ago
  Also don't forget that We proxy pay google service with Ads. If you are paying something for free doesn't mean that there is no hidden costs. Also, I am not sure to about drawing a correlation between cost and climate impact.
- intelliot 10y ago
  I don't have a good answer here, but I believe it may be instructive to consider externalities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality). For instance, think carefully about how they may apply here.

SonicSoul 10y ago

thanks for posting this cautionary tale. I am completely dependent on Google today so if that happened i'd be F'd. Will look into exporting all my emails this weekend. But why was Google unable to re-instate you? Was it because you had no way to prove your identity to them? Were you able to reach anyone? for those in similar situation you can back up your email/calendar here: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout/custom/gmail,calendar https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout/custom/gmail,cal...

setq 10y ago
Contacting Google support, unless you're an Apps customer which I wasn't, is a complete waste of time. Unless you can, to quote a colleague, piss through the eye of a needle, when it comes to the security questions and details then you can't even get over the first hurdle.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  From any situation where your account has been disabled, I've seen a grand total of two positive resolution strategies: - Get a lawyer and have them contact. - Know a Googler personally.
  - setq 10y ago
    Any product which relies on knowing someone at the company or a good lawyer should be marked instantly as suspect! :)
flanbiscuit 10y ago
It would be great if someone put together a guide on how to migrate from a closed source systems (e.g. gmail, google drive, dropbox, etc) to open source systems. One with detailed, but easy to follow, instructions.

notheguyouthink 10y ago

Yup, this is what i'm trying to avoid by backing up my life. The data storage mechanism is my hardest point.. I like Camlistore, but really i'd love something that is accessible from anywhere. Eg, a distributed access system like IPFS, but for personal use only (closed network, as best possible) would be ideal. Including distributed though, it needs versioning like Camlistore. Ultimately i'll just go with Camlistore and likely build tools around the access UX. It's the best i've found, without rewriting it myself (too much work for too little gain atm, imo)

setq 10y ago
I really like the idea of Camlistore. But I really want something my family could actually handle if the worst came to the worst and that just happens to be bitlocker encrypted NTFS. Plug the stick in, plonk in a password and you have all my things.
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  What would prevent Camlistore from the same model? I guess if you're gone, the server might not be running properly, and they wouldn't know how to start it and etc. Ya? That's fair. I wonder if it would be worth it to write some type of camlistore extraction tool. Eg, plug in a USB, autoruns a script which mounts a blob store as a fuse FS. Hell, the blob store could be packed with the USB.. a sort of way to backup Camlistore that your family can always access. I actually like that idea. Fuse may not be a good access model (it's tied to unix of course), but maybe just a couple binaries that will auto run and display the stored camlistore blobstore. Sounds like a nifty project and nifty way to backup camlistore for family/non-tech oriented. No servers needed, no understanding of the tech you use. As fool-proof as you can make it. Thoughts on this related to your model?
  - setq 10y ago
    Some interesting ideas but I've got to ask: What if the ABI breaks, the CPU architecture changes or the project gives up at some point in the future? Ergo, I prefer to leave just the data. The data is hard enough on its own: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13367398 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13367398

jasim 10y ago

https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault - backs up your gmail account to a local db, and lets you restore it to another account.

joshstrange 10y ago
I'm a huge fan of GmVault. I backup all my email accounts with it to a home server that syncs my mailboxes over to Dropbox as well. Pretty painless to setup and very reassuring to know my mail is safe.
- tripzilch 10y ago
  I have used GmVault before, but since now there's Google Takeout, doesn't that do everything GmVault does and more?
  - joshstrange 10y ago
    I can't speak to that. I've not looked at the output of Google Takeout. Also GmVault (for me at least) is 100% automated so I will at very worst lose 6hrs of email. Google Takeout is a manual process AFAIK.

gravypod 10y ago

I want to do the same but I don't know of anything that has Google-Level replacement for Drive/Docs/Sheets/Calendar. I really want one thought. If I can get Email, Document Storage (Docs, Spreadsheets, PowerPoints, Calendars) I'd move to a personal in-home solution ASAP. If it could integrate with Android via F-Droid apps I'd be even happier.

hobarrera 10y ago

The lesson you should have learnt here is to keep backups. I'm amazed at how people store all their stuff on a single company's servers, and keep no backup at all (either locally, or at some other company).

setq 10y ago
That was the lesson learned. Also that you should store everything in easy to access formats.

j45 10y ago

Ultimately information in the cloud, or anywhere is not backed up if it only exists in one place. Backing it up for one's self is essential. This leaves most people in two categories: those who haven't (yet) had a catastrophic, unrecoverable data loss, and those who have. Leaving it to others, or all your eggs with just one service is an invitation to the first group. What I can say is it's almost certain something unimaginable will happen, be it a data center, service shutting down, or something getting corrupted. I want to echo my experience of losing 16 years of email with Hotmail over at Microsoft due to the wind blowing arbitrarily in a different direction for a few months. I had my MSN messenger log in automatically to keep my account active on Hotmail, a criteria which was quietly ended. Unforgivable for me. Had some of it backed up luckily in real email clients but lost some critical emails and photos with a friend who passed away. People who either haven't generated enough of a digital footprint and lost it are going to be in for an inevitable surprise with the online services that they take for granted as being ubiquitous. While the cloud is awesome, it is still quite in it's infancy.