7 ms·

With a drone encased in a full faraday cage, how would the operator control it? Therein lies the problem unless it was preprogrammed and fully autonomous. That

by SEJeff 10y ago

With a drone encased in a full faraday cage, how would the operator control it? Therein lies the problem unless it was preprogrammed and fully autonomous. That might work.

Cieplak 10y ago
Line of sight lasers are one possibility, but those are vulnerable to dazzlers.
foobarian 10y ago
Good luck with getting GPS then.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  With a good enough AI and a detailed aerial map onboard, you may not need it.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  Place the receptor outside of the cage, put a resistor and a biggish capacitor, a varistor and a fuse on the communication line, and it's good enough for any disposable machine.
ars 10y ago
Faraday cages don't block DC, so use that to provide power. Then run a simple optical fiber cable for communication to an antenna that lies outside the cage. If you are really good you have multiple antennas that are kept off (with the circuit physically disconnected from the antenna). If you get hit with a pulse activate the next antenna. It's possible to make simple electronics that can survive such a pulse, with auto-reset fusible links, and you use those for activating the antenna. Or even a small door and "push" the antenna out of the Faraday cage when needed.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  > Faraday cages don't block DC, so use that to provide power. Drones carry their own power source - usually a LiPo battery. What you're proposing would not work if the phaser could just keep firing (which seems likely). Onboard AI seems the solution (assuming the Faraday cage is effective enough, which remains to be seen).
  - ars 10y ago
    > Drones carry their own power source - usually a LiPo battery. You misunderstood me. Use that to provide power to the antenna which is outside the Faraday cage, and the battery is inside. > What you're proposing would not work if the phaser could just keep firing The phaser has a range though. So program the drone to fly up and away if it gets hit (no need for AI to do that). Then reactivate communication and stay away from the phaser area.
    - SEJeff 10y ago
      I think this is an expensive solution, which would increase radar cross signature almost certainly. Also, it would protect against a weapon that isn't fielded while doing nothing for any conventional weapons. Source: I flew UAVs "drones" for the US Army for 482 combat flight hours in Iraq. Lookup the wikipedia for "Ground Control Station" for an old pic of an 18 year old me @ the UAV training center "black tower" in Ft Huachuca, AZ.
      - milesokeefe 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_control_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_control_station
      - ThrustVectoring 10y ago
        Yeah. The solution is likely more along the lines of making the drones cheap and disposable, and fighting these systems with traditional air defense suppression.
        10y ago
Florin_Andrei 10y ago
One thing about the Faraday cage is that is has a maximum frequency - when the wavelength becomes comparable to the cell size in the wire frame. Any higher frequency will just go through. This is a problem as microwaves are in the centimeter range. The mesh then would have to be dense. That would raise aerodynamic issues. I'm not saying it's not doable. I'm just raising the obvious concerns about basic challenges from the laws of physics.
- JoeCoder_ 10y ago
  You could put your propellers outside and away from the cage, with their motors inside the cage. This would also greatly reduce the size and weight of the cage.
  - Florin_Andrei 10y ago
    That might work. The "cage" would be more like a sleeve in the region of the arm - just creeping out on the arm like a mesh tube (or even continuous foil tube) to protect the wires, electronics, and motors. A small hole would allow the motor hub to stick out of the cage, and the prop would be on top of that, outside the cage. Heck, all the wires, electronics, and motors could be inside the "arm". Then coat that with some EM shield material (like a metal foil). I like it. Of course, from "like it" to "it's actually effective" there's still the nagging little field test to perform. It's the old shell-vs-armor game, since EM radiation has a penetration depth - Faraday cages are not magically 100% effective, make a thin enough one, and a powerful EMP would still do some damage inside. So now you need to carry thicker, heavier EMP armor.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      I think they are magically 100% effective. Unless the cage is breached, nothing will get through. However, an EMP pulse could melt holes in the foil. However it also means the drone has no GPS; no wireless signaling; no sensors outside the foil at all. It becomes a dumbfire dead-reckoning device.
fspeech 10y ago
You don't need a full cage. As the beam can only originate from the ground you can just shield the vulnerable bottom half. Don't see how this weapon can work against sophisticated adversaries.
- robocat 10y ago
  Ground based targets is part of the scope for the weapon - just mount it on a plane (maybe a large drone!)

by SEJeff 10y ago

With a drone encased in a full faraday cage, how would the operator control it? Therein lies the problem unless it was preprogrammed and fully autonomous. That might work.

Cieplak 10y ago

Line of sight lasers are one possibility, but those are vulnerable to dazzlers.

foobarian 10y ago

Good luck with getting GPS then.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
With a good enough AI and a detailed aerial map onboard, you may not need it.
marcosdumay 10y ago
Place the receptor outside of the cage, put a resistor and a biggish capacitor, a varistor and a fuse on the communication line, and it's good enough for any disposable machine.

ars 10y ago

Faraday cages don't block DC, so use that to provide power. Then run a simple optical fiber cable for communication to an antenna that lies outside the cage. If you are really good you have multiple antennas that are kept off (with the circuit physically disconnected from the antenna). If you get hit with a pulse activate the next antenna. It's possible to make simple electronics that can survive such a pulse, with auto-reset fusible links, and you use those for activating the antenna. Or even a small door and "push" the antenna out of the Faraday cage when needed.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
> Faraday cages don't block DC, so use that to provide power. Drones carry their own power source - usually a LiPo battery. What you're proposing would not work if the phaser could just keep firing (which seems likely). Onboard AI seems the solution (assuming the Faraday cage is effective enough, which remains to be seen).
- ars 10y ago
  > Drones carry their own power source - usually a LiPo battery. You misunderstood me. Use that to provide power to the antenna which is outside the Faraday cage, and the battery is inside. > What you're proposing would not work if the phaser could just keep firing The phaser has a range though. So program the drone to fly up and away if it gets hit (no need for AI to do that). Then reactivate communication and stay away from the phaser area.
  - SEJeff 10y ago
    I think this is an expensive solution, which would increase radar cross signature almost certainly. Also, it would protect against a weapon that isn't fielded while doing nothing for any conventional weapons. Source: I flew UAVs "drones" for the US Army for 482 combat flight hours in Iraq. Lookup the wikipedia for "Ground Control Station" for an old pic of an 18 year old me @ the UAV training center "black tower" in Ft Huachuca, AZ.
    - milesokeefe 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_control_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_control_station
    - ThrustVectoring 10y ago
      Yeah. The solution is likely more along the lines of making the drones cheap and disposable, and fighting these systems with traditional air defense suppression.
      - 10y ago

Florin_Andrei 10y ago

One thing about the Faraday cage is that is has a maximum frequency - when the wavelength becomes comparable to the cell size in the wire frame. Any higher frequency will just go through. This is a problem as microwaves are in the centimeter range. The mesh then would have to be dense. That would raise aerodynamic issues. I'm not saying it's not doable. I'm just raising the obvious concerns about basic challenges from the laws of physics.

JoeCoder_ 10y ago
You could put your propellers outside and away from the cage, with their motors inside the cage. This would also greatly reduce the size and weight of the cage.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  That might work. The "cage" would be more like a sleeve in the region of the arm - just creeping out on the arm like a mesh tube (or even continuous foil tube) to protect the wires, electronics, and motors. A small hole would allow the motor hub to stick out of the cage, and the prop would be on top of that, outside the cage. Heck, all the wires, electronics, and motors could be inside the "arm". Then coat that with some EM shield material (like a metal foil). I like it. Of course, from "like it" to "it's actually effective" there's still the nagging little field test to perform. It's the old shell-vs-armor game, since EM radiation has a penetration depth - Faraday cages are not magically 100% effective, make a thin enough one, and a powerful EMP would still do some damage inside. So now you need to carry thicker, heavier EMP armor.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    I think they are magically 100% effective. Unless the cage is breached, nothing will get through. However, an EMP pulse could melt holes in the foil. However it also means the drone has no GPS; no wireless signaling; no sensors outside the foil at all. It becomes a dumbfire dead-reckoning device.

fspeech 10y ago

You don't need a full cage. As the beam can only originate from the ground you can just shield the vulnerable bottom half. Don't see how this weapon can work against sophisticated adversaries.

robocat 10y ago
Ground based targets is part of the scope for the weapon - just mount it on a plane (maybe a large drone!)