4 ms·

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think I'd rather have people with extreme opinions talking in the public where they are subject to counter arguments than some

by laumars 10y ago

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think I'd rather have people with extreme opinions talking in the public where they are subject to counter arguments than somewhere less public where their message goes unchallenged.

okreallywtf 10y ago
I agree and disagree - on the one hand I prefer to have them out in the open so its easier to understand the kind of misinformation that is being spread, but unfortunately it seems like a large number of people (well, everyone to some extent but some people have more trouble it seems) separating fake information from more-or-less true information. My guess is that by them having this platform, they can easily reach those who are primed for believing what they read. If people weighted the most informed responses equally to the tweets themselves that would be one thing, but my guess is that is not the case.
AimHere 10y ago
The next leader of the most powerful nation on earth already elected on a campaign that openly advocated torture and war crimes and made all sorts of racially charged insinuations. The USA seems set to embark on a terrifying policy of mass deportations in a few months. A white supremacist is set to be installed as White House Chief of Staff, and his previous incarnation was as owner of news outlet talking in the public arena, presumably having his message challenged in exactly the manner you describe. I think that your way of doing things has already run its course.
- laumars 10y ago
  There was more to the Trump campaign than just misinformation on social media. Without wanting to rehash old discussions I think it's fair to say that most of the people who voted for Trump acknowledged his flaws but ultimately found Hillary Clinton less palatable. Personally I don't think there was a single good candidate on the ballot.
  - ambicapter 10y ago
    Making Hillary unpalatable was part of the alt-right campaign to elect Trump. #SickHillary and other ways of killing her trustworthiness were campaigns imagined and put into effect by Trump sympathizers.
    - laumars 10y ago
      Yes, smear campaigns happen on both sides. I'm talking beyond that though. E.g. Some saw Clintons "career politics" as her being indoctrinated into the status quo whereas Trump represented a change. I was as unhappy about the result as the next lefty but it doesn't help the situation to assume that all Trump supporters are ignorant, nor any of the worse accusations. Those supporters will have their reasons and if you want any hope of swaying their opinions then you have to listen to their arguments - something we did a poor job of in both the UK's EU referendum and the American election. We got preachy instead, so many on the opposing side kept their opinions quiet and we ended up not only misjudging the support of those campaigns had but ultimately losing the vote as well.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  The reason there's a white supremecist in the white house is precisely that people silenced white people on places like Twitter when they complained about institutional social injustices against them. So the white people got together and voted as a minority bloc for a member of their minority that would favor their interests over all others. Your solution of trying harder to supress them will only get more Donald Trumps elected.
  - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
    Not really. We are going to wipe out that tendency by educating people better. Educated people, on the whole, tend not to be racist, bigoted fascists.
    - forgottenpass 10y ago
      That's a lot of people to educate. And where? Some sort of infrastructure would be necessary to educate so many. But it probably wouldn't need to be permanent, just temporary until the masses are educated. You know, a sort of camp for education.
- concernedmale 10y ago
  You mean versus Hillary's "can't we just drone him" statement? What about the people saying assassinate Trump or kill white people... When will their accounts be banned?
- matwood 10y ago
  > The USA seems set to embark on a terrifying policy of mass deportations in a few months I really wish the MSM would stop burying facts in the story and out of the headlines. Not that I agree with it, but Trump has stated time and again that he wants to deport people in the US illegally who ALSO have a criminal record. There was some stat from the gov. that ~1.9 million illegals also have some criminal record, and that matches the figures he has thrown around. My point is that the hyperbole in these discussions means that no one will ever come together. People need to act more like President Obama now that the election is over, and figure out how to make the best of a situation they may not like. Democracy will go on.
- erichocean 10y ago
  You might not like this, but Obama has already deported more people than any other US president—2.5 million people to be exact.[0] That's about what Trump is proposing. [0] http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-num...
chillingeffect 10y ago
I agree 100%. We need exchange, dilution, exposure therapy, to become familiar with each others' ways and ultimately realize we're not a danger to one another if we're all working, well-fed, raising our children in peace. The counterargument I see people making is that "hating $group is not an opinion." They see opinions as matters of taste, like twitter should just be about discussing flavors of ice cream, while racism is purely a crime and has to be punished. My response to that is words from the tip of the iceberg. We must discuss what's under the ocean's surface. NIMBY'ing assholes spoils that conversation space.
VeejayRampay 10y ago
And even worse, when you ban those accounts, you reinforce the ideas that there's a media conspiration against the alt-right, giving the most vocal proponents of that ideology a platform to disseminate their ideas and victimize themselves.

by laumars 10y ago

okreallywtf 10y ago

I agree and disagree - on the one hand I prefer to have them out in the open so its easier to understand the kind of misinformation that is being spread, but unfortunately it seems like a large number of people (well, everyone to some extent but some people have more trouble it seems) separating fake information from more-or-less true information. My guess is that by them having this platform, they can easily reach those who are primed for believing what they read. If people weighted the most informed responses equally to the tweets themselves that would be one thing, but my guess is that is not the case.

AimHere 10y ago

The next leader of the most powerful nation on earth already elected on a campaign that openly advocated torture and war crimes and made all sorts of racially charged insinuations. The USA seems set to embark on a terrifying policy of mass deportations in a few months. A white supremacist is set to be installed as White House Chief of Staff, and his previous incarnation was as owner of news outlet talking in the public arena, presumably having his message challenged in exactly the manner you describe. I think that your way of doing things has already run its course.

laumars 10y ago
There was more to the Trump campaign than just misinformation on social media. Without wanting to rehash old discussions I think it's fair to say that most of the people who voted for Trump acknowledged his flaws but ultimately found Hillary Clinton less palatable. Personally I don't think there was a single good candidate on the ballot.
- ambicapter 10y ago
  Making Hillary unpalatable was part of the alt-right campaign to elect Trump. #SickHillary and other ways of killing her trustworthiness were campaigns imagined and put into effect by Trump sympathizers.
  - laumars 10y ago
    Yes, smear campaigns happen on both sides. I'm talking beyond that though. E.g. Some saw Clintons "career politics" as her being indoctrinated into the status quo whereas Trump represented a change. I was as unhappy about the result as the next lefty but it doesn't help the situation to assume that all Trump supporters are ignorant, nor any of the worse accusations. Those supporters will have their reasons and if you want any hope of swaying their opinions then you have to listen to their arguments - something we did a poor job of in both the UK's EU referendum and the American election. We got preachy instead, so many on the opposing side kept their opinions quiet and we ended up not only misjudging the support of those campaigns had but ultimately losing the vote as well.
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
The reason there's a white supremecist in the white house is precisely that people silenced white people on places like Twitter when they complained about institutional social injustices against them. So the white people got together and voted as a minority bloc for a member of their minority that would favor their interests over all others. Your solution of trying harder to supress them will only get more Donald Trumps elected.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  Not really. We are going to wipe out that tendency by educating people better. Educated people, on the whole, tend not to be racist, bigoted fascists.
  - forgottenpass 10y ago
    That's a lot of people to educate. And where? Some sort of infrastructure would be necessary to educate so many. But it probably wouldn't need to be permanent, just temporary until the masses are educated. You know, a sort of camp for education.
concernedmale 10y ago
You mean versus Hillary's "can't we just drone him" statement? What about the people saying assassinate Trump or kill white people... When will their accounts be banned?
matwood 10y ago
> The USA seems set to embark on a terrifying policy of mass deportations in a few months I really wish the MSM would stop burying facts in the story and out of the headlines. Not that I agree with it, but Trump has stated time and again that he wants to deport people in the US illegally who ALSO have a criminal record. There was some stat from the gov. that ~1.9 million illegals also have some criminal record, and that matches the figures he has thrown around. My point is that the hyperbole in these discussions means that no one will ever come together. People need to act more like President Obama now that the election is over, and figure out how to make the best of a situation they may not like. Democracy will go on.
erichocean 10y ago
You might not like this, but Obama has already deported more people than any other US president—2.5 million people to be exact.[0] That's about what Trump is proposing. [0] http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-num...

chillingeffect 10y ago

I agree 100%. We need exchange, dilution, exposure therapy, to become familiar with each others' ways and ultimately realize we're not a danger to one another if we're all working, well-fed, raising our children in peace. The counterargument I see people making is that "hating $group is not an opinion." They see opinions as matters of taste, like twitter should just be about discussing flavors of ice cream, while racism is purely a crime and has to be punished. My response to that is words from the tip of the iceberg. We must discuss what's under the ocean's surface. NIMBY'ing assholes spoils that conversation space.

VeejayRampay 10y ago

And even worse, when you ban those accounts, you reinforce the ideas that there's a media conspiration against the alt-right, giving the most vocal proponents of that ideology a platform to disseminate their ideas and victimize themselves.