4 ms·

It's an interesting comparison, but IMO not that apt. Going from a physical keyboard to a touch screen, something is definitely lost (even though much is also g

It's an interesting comparison, but IMO not that apt. Going from a physical keyboard to a touch screen, something is definitely lost (even though much is also gained). The removal of the function keys will at worse force people to memorise different hot keys (any reason why the number row could not serve the same purpose exactly as well?), and at best it will make providers of IDEs and other productivity software revisit old assumptions, and improve the usability of their software.

tw04 10y ago
They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use? Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw. I'm also struggling to buy into the "not everyone is a touch typist" excuse. Anyone under the age of about 40 has had a typing class. Anyone under the age of about 25 (who is using a computer for their job/attending college) knew they were going to spend the rest of their life using a computer and probably paid attention.
- adamlett 10y ago
  Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw "Sorry, but I'm just not interested in this motorized wagon you've invented. It's noisy and ugly. Could you please just go and invent me a faster horse instead?"
  - tw04 10y ago
    So you're comparing a touch bar, which has already been done before and met with the exact same pushback, to a radical new form of transportation? Fanboy alert. This is the next Apple Watch in the making.
    - adamlett 10y ago
      No, I am making the observation that most users are conservative and resist change, even for the better. And that most people can't recognize progress even if it hits them in the face.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >This is the next Apple Watch in the making. So, a product that went from non-existent to being the #1 sold item in it's niche, the #2 in overall watch sales, and outsold competitor smartwatches 10 to 1, becoming a multi-billion dollar thing? And all that in it's first 2-3 years (it took more for the iPod to become ubiquitous from its 2001 introduction), and while not of course being expected to become the next iPhone anyway... Yeah, some failure.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use? Most people "take their eyes of the monitor to use" the function keys. Given this, the function row strip will finally be more usable and more obvious for lots of other uses besides volume and brightness (things that people at best adjust a dozen of times a day). Most laptop users are neither programmers not touch typists that use the function row 2000 times a day. Nor does being a "pro" users means you are either of them. A graphic designer might not be a touch typist or care for the f row, but he is a professional. Same for a doctor, an architect, a musician, a videographer, a CEO, an accountant, etc etc...
Nullabillity 10y ago
> any reason why the number row could not serve the same purpose exactly as well? Then you lose the ability to change the code while you're debugging it, or end up with a modal UI. No thanks.
- adamlett 10y ago
  Do modifier keys (control, alt, command, fn, shift) fall under your definition of modal UI? If so, how do you deal with the fact that your keyboard doesn't (I'm guessing) have dedicated keys for cut, copy, and paste? I think its safe to assume that everybody uses those significantly more often than they step through a program with a debugger.

tw04 10y ago

They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use? Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw. I'm also struggling to buy into the "not everyone is a touch typist" excuse. Anyone under the age of about 40 has had a typing class. Anyone under the age of about 25 (who is using a computer for their job/attending college) knew they were going to spend the rest of their life using a computer and probably paid attention.

adamlett 10y ago
Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw "Sorry, but I'm just not interested in this motorized wagon you've invented. It's noisy and ugly. Could you please just go and invent me a faster horse instead?"
- tw04 10y ago
  So you're comparing a touch bar, which has already been done before and met with the exact same pushback, to a radical new form of transportation? Fanboy alert. This is the next Apple Watch in the making.
  - adamlett 10y ago
    No, I am making the observation that most users are conservative and resist change, even for the better. And that most people can't recognize progress even if it hits them in the face.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >This is the next Apple Watch in the making. So, a product that went from non-existent to being the #1 sold item in it's niche, the #2 in overall watch sales, and outsold competitor smartwatches 10 to 1, becoming a multi-billion dollar thing? And all that in it's first 2-3 years (it took more for the iPod to become ubiquitous from its 2001 introduction), and while not of course being expected to become the next iPhone anyway... Yeah, some failure.
coldtea 10y ago
>They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use? Most people "take their eyes of the monitor to use" the function keys. Given this, the function row strip will finally be more usable and more obvious for lots of other uses besides volume and brightness (things that people at best adjust a dozen of times a day). Most laptop users are neither programmers not touch typists that use the function row 2000 times a day. Nor does being a "pro" users means you are either of them. A graphic designer might not be a touch typist or care for the f row, but he is a professional. Same for a doctor, an architect, a musician, a videographer, a CEO, an accountant, etc etc...

Nullabillity 10y ago

> any reason why the number row could not serve the same purpose exactly as well? Then you lose the ability to change the code while you're debugging it, or end up with a modal UI. No thanks.

adamlett 10y ago
Do modifier keys (control, alt, command, fn, shift) fall under your definition of modal UI? If so, how do you deal with the fact that your keyboard doesn't (I'm guessing) have dedicated keys for cut, copy, and paste? I think its safe to assume that everybody uses those significantly more often than they step through a program with a debugger.