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Meanwhile, a "pro" user who's actually used the new Macbook Pro weighs in: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-professionals-look-at_b_1289

Meanwhile, a "pro" user who's actually used the new Macbook Pro weighs in: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-professionals-look-at_b_12894856.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-prof... Spoiler alert: he doesn't agree with the assessment of HN users who haven't actually used it.

mobiuscog 10y ago
Except he's coming at it with a strong bias: No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off "superior spec'd" Windows counterparts in the real world. This has always been true of Macs. Having used both lines of machines for many years, if I want raw power and 'specs' I use the PC.
- Kipters 10y ago
  I've also had the feeling he was strongly biased throughout the whole article
  - static_noise 10y ago
    If you still feel the bias, you're not _really_ an Apple customer.
    - jasonm23 10y ago
      I think you conflated customers with disciples
- hvidgaard 10y ago
  His argument falls short the second you want to use non optimized software - he even touches upon this, but "I understand people need to use programs from other developers, but at some point they need to play catch up". This is rather difficult to take seriously. So you can efficiently do what Apple say you can do, but nothing else? That might work in his line of work, but it doesn't for the rest of the world.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    For his use case there is a pairing of software and hardware optimized to work with each other. In "professional" situations this is not, as I understand it, particularly unusual. And yet the unsuitability of the new MBP for "professional" use cases has been widely assumed on HN. It's interesting to see someone who actually has one of those use cases and has actually used the new MBP, weighing in to say "it works, and here's why". Not least because the level of hardware/software cooperation Apple can muster is a selling point for him, but has been ignored by all the "I'm a touch typist whose workflow consists exclusively of function keys, the touch bar makes this a worthless toy to me" noise coming from HN.
    - hvidgaard 10y ago
      While it is not unusual, it's not what Macbook Pro has been known for since their transition to Intel CPUs. So it fits some specific use cases, at the expense of every other. And if they did make the hardware faster, all usecases would benefit. All those people with a different usecase, are right to be annoyed by that. But just as this piece completely lacks unbiased opinion, so does the noise coming from HN (and the tech community in general).
static_noise 10y ago
That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." and your post is a good example for the no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it." All I really know about this is how I feel about it and I must admit that I am going to go back to the PC world when the time comes to replace my current MBP. The offerings in the PC world are not perfect for me but they suit me better. I bought my MBP because at the time it was actually the cheapest machine offering all those features at a high build quality. I didn't get into a dependency on OSX and am pretty confident that I can just migrate fully to Linux. So I guess I'm not _really_ a professional Mac user.
- nicky0 10y ago
  At least it is a refreshing counterpoint to the "if it doesn't suit me, it can't suit anybody" sentiment that I've seen a lot of.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." 99.9%+ of criticism of the new MBP has been of the form "Without ever interacting with one, I can tell it is unsuitable for me and therefore is unsuitable for anyone, anywhere, in any professional purpose, ever". no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it." More like "people are pre-emptively concluding, without ever having so much as been in the same room as a new MBP, that it is the antithesis of everything they need from a computer". Which is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. I've suggested in the past that this feels less like "I have legitimate criticism of this product" and more like "I hate the manufacturer, always have hated and always will hate the manufacturer, and see this as a convenient cover for venting my hatred of the manufacturer". Notice how much of the criticism veers quickly away from specific aspects of the product and into "this is classic Apple", "this is how Apple treats users", "this is what's wrong with Apple", "Apple abandoning a key segment again", etc.
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    I don't care about the touch bar and while I'm miffed about the magsafe I can deal with shelling out extra for accidental damage insurance. Personally my disappointment is with the specs which no time with the machine will change. The mac I'm currently using was purchased 3 years with 16GB of RAM and if I replace it I will be stuck with the same capacity. I imagine there are a lot of "Pro" market segments that are well served by 16GB or less though. I'm hoping the next revision gets a >16GB capacity and it's released before I need to replace this one.
bengalister 10y ago
I bought a MBP in April this year. It was my first Mac. I am quite happy with it, the retina screen & touchpad are really good, but I don't think my next one will be a MBP. Windows has now the Windows Linux Subsystem and it is actually quite good for Linux development on Windows. (I manually updated it to 16.04). I don't need Cygwin anymore and it compiles to ELF format. I don't know if Microsoft will keep it but if the goal is to attract developers who deploy on Linux, it might attract all the ones that cannot migrate to Linux due to proprietary apps or don't want to tweak their system. I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 and 16.10) as my primary desktop (once again I think I tried every year since year 2000) but still failed having 2 screens supported with 2 graphic cards, bluetooth headset being connected and sound through HDMI. There's no killer app for me on the Mac (I don't use GarageBand or final cut pro), maybe I miss the viewer that is nice for pdf pages re-ordering or pdf merging (could not find free equivalent on Windows).
TorKlingberg 10y ago
As I understand, the new Macbook Pro has not been generally delivered yet. Is he has had one for a week, it must be through some special Apple program. So of course he likes it, otherwise he wouldn't have received one.
tw04 10y ago
>I’m an editor at Trim Editing in London, where we cut high end commercials, music videos and films. So not a programmer, and not someone who was using the function keys in the first place based on that article. Furthermore he claims it's "faster than editing on any windows system" because Final Cut Pro X is integrated so well with the hardware he doesn't need more memory or CPU. Sorry, of all the applications he could've chosen, claiming that a Windows box with more memory and a better CPU would be slower is... asinine. Fanboy alert.
sdegutis 10y ago
> "A 'Professional' should be defined by the work they deliver and the value they bring, not their gear." This is absolutely silly. A professional blacksmith can't work without a proper anvil. There really is something to be said about having proper tools for the job. You can't drive in a nail with a shoe, you'll need a legit hammer.
SonicSoul 10y ago
this seems suspicious No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off “superior spec’d” Windows counterparts in the real world. could the statement be any broader? what are the "superior spec'd windows counterparts in real world" he's compared it to? Also he's using Final Cut Pro which happens to be an Apple product so if that's faster due to integration how does that help anyone using non apple development software which I presume is majority of macbook pro users. I edit a lot of photos and I don't use any Apple software for it

mobiuscog 10y ago

Except he's coming at it with a strong bias: No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off "superior spec'd" Windows counterparts in the real world. This has always been true of Macs. Having used both lines of machines for many years, if I want raw power and 'specs' I use the PC.

Kipters 10y ago
I've also had the feeling he was strongly biased throughout the whole article
- static_noise 10y ago
  If you still feel the bias, you're not _really_ an Apple customer.
  - jasonm23 10y ago
    I think you conflated customers with disciples
hvidgaard 10y ago
His argument falls short the second you want to use non optimized software - he even touches upon this, but "I understand people need to use programs from other developers, but at some point they need to play catch up". This is rather difficult to take seriously. So you can efficiently do what Apple say you can do, but nothing else? That might work in his line of work, but it doesn't for the rest of the world.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  For his use case there is a pairing of software and hardware optimized to work with each other. In "professional" situations this is not, as I understand it, particularly unusual. And yet the unsuitability of the new MBP for "professional" use cases has been widely assumed on HN. It's interesting to see someone who actually has one of those use cases and has actually used the new MBP, weighing in to say "it works, and here's why". Not least because the level of hardware/software cooperation Apple can muster is a selling point for him, but has been ignored by all the "I'm a touch typist whose workflow consists exclusively of function keys, the touch bar makes this a worthless toy to me" noise coming from HN.
  - hvidgaard 10y ago
    While it is not unusual, it's not what Macbook Pro has been known for since their transition to Intel CPUs. So it fits some specific use cases, at the expense of every other. And if they did make the hardware faster, all usecases would benefit. All those people with a different usecase, are right to be annoyed by that. But just as this piece completely lacks unbiased opinion, so does the noise coming from HN (and the tech community in general).

static_noise 10y ago

That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." and your post is a good example for the no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it." All I really know about this is how I feel about it and I must admit that I am going to go back to the PC world when the time comes to replace my current MBP. The offerings in the PC world are not perfect for me but they suit me better. I bought my MBP because at the time it was actually the cheapest machine offering all those features at a high build quality. I didn't get into a dependency on OSX and am pretty confident that I can just migrate fully to Linux. So I guess I'm not _really_ a professional Mac user.

nicky0 10y ago
At least it is a refreshing counterpoint to the "if it doesn't suit me, it can't suit anybody" sentiment that I've seen a lot of.
ubernostrum 10y ago
That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." 99.9%+ of criticism of the new MBP has been of the form "Without ever interacting with one, I can tell it is unsuitable for me and therefore is unsuitable for anyone, anywhere, in any professional purpose, ever". no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it." More like "people are pre-emptively concluding, without ever having so much as been in the same room as a new MBP, that it is the antithesis of everything they need from a computer". Which is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. I've suggested in the past that this feels less like "I have legitimate criticism of this product" and more like "I hate the manufacturer, always have hated and always will hate the manufacturer, and see this as a convenient cover for venting my hatred of the manufacturer". Notice how much of the criticism veers quickly away from specific aspects of the product and into "this is classic Apple", "this is how Apple treats users", "this is what's wrong with Apple", "Apple abandoning a key segment again", etc.
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  I don't care about the touch bar and while I'm miffed about the magsafe I can deal with shelling out extra for accidental damage insurance. Personally my disappointment is with the specs which no time with the machine will change. The mac I'm currently using was purchased 3 years with 16GB of RAM and if I replace it I will be stuck with the same capacity. I imagine there are a lot of "Pro" market segments that are well served by 16GB or less though. I'm hoping the next revision gets a >16GB capacity and it's released before I need to replace this one.

bengalister 10y ago

I bought a MBP in April this year. It was my first Mac. I am quite happy with it, the retina screen & touchpad are really good, but I don't think my next one will be a MBP. Windows has now the Windows Linux Subsystem and it is actually quite good for Linux development on Windows. (I manually updated it to 16.04). I don't need Cygwin anymore and it compiles to ELF format. I don't know if Microsoft will keep it but if the goal is to attract developers who deploy on Linux, it might attract all the ones that cannot migrate to Linux due to proprietary apps or don't want to tweak their system. I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.04 and 16.10) as my primary desktop (once again I think I tried every year since year 2000) but still failed having 2 screens supported with 2 graphic cards, bluetooth headset being connected and sound through HDMI. There's no killer app for me on the Mac (I don't use GarageBand or final cut pro), maybe I miss the viewer that is nice for pdf pages re-ordering or pdf merging (could not find free equivalent on Windows).

TorKlingberg 10y ago

As I understand, the new Macbook Pro has not been generally delivered yet. Is he has had one for a week, it must be through some special Apple program. So of course he likes it, otherwise he wouldn't have received one.

tw04 10y ago

>I’m an editor at Trim Editing in London, where we cut high end commercials, music videos and films. So not a programmer, and not someone who was using the function keys in the first place based on that article. Furthermore he claims it's "faster than editing on any windows system" because Final Cut Pro X is integrated so well with the hardware he doesn't need more memory or CPU. Sorry, of all the applications he could've chosen, claiming that a Windows box with more memory and a better CPU would be slower is... asinine. Fanboy alert.

sdegutis 10y ago

> "A 'Professional' should be defined by the work they deliver and the value they bring, not their gear." This is absolutely silly. A professional blacksmith can't work without a proper anvil. There really is something to be said about having proper tools for the job. You can't drive in a nail with a shoe, you'll need a legit hammer.

SonicSoul 10y ago

this seems suspicious No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off “superior spec’d” Windows counterparts in the real world. could the statement be any broader? what are the "superior spec'd windows counterparts in real world" he's compared it to? Also he's using Final Cut Pro which happens to be an Apple product so if that's faster due to integration how does that help anyone using non apple development software which I presume is majority of macbook pro users. I edit a lot of photos and I don't use any Apple software for it