8 ms·

"I don't see how you can have a humane prison not be a criminal university." By having it promote positive improvement and rehabilitation rather than purely pu

by lambda 10y ago

"I don't see how you can have a humane prison not be a criminal university." By having it promote positive improvement and rehabilitation rather than purely punishment. Here is what a humane prison looks like: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35813470 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35813470 http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison

moyta 10y ago
"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members" ~Pope John Paul II By treating prisoners humanely, a society is showing how it treats those who are at the bottom rungs of it. It is a reflection on the society itself.
- jedrek 10y ago
  A lot of people call those prisons "dorms" and they say that prisoners live in better conditions than a lot of people outside of prison. And yet, they don't make the jump to the idea that maybe people shouldn't be living in worse conditions.
  - moyta 10y ago
    Definitely, I am a big believer in Housing First and affordable housing by allowing high density development, as it is a viable path forward for cities and it defends suburbs from pressure to redevelop much more destructive low density redevelopment.
    - iaskwhy 10y ago
      I'm getting off-topic here but can you share some resources on how low density developments are much more destructive? I'm usually very pro low density housing (and also very anti high density housing) so I'd like to have some new perspectives on this. Thanks.
      - vidarh 10y ago
        Consider this: My local road takes up ~40,000 square metres of space all in (road, front yards, houses, back yards). That houses 660 families. Near the local train station they'll be housing that same amount in <2,000 square metres of high density housing. So to handle twice the population, we could either free up ~2,000 square metres, or re-develop the entire road two have twice the density, leading to the loss of most of the single dwelling houses and private gardens. It's not so much that low density is bad, as that not having high density takes choice away once there's no more space and you have to start increasing density anyway, often in all kinds of suboptimal ways.
        etatoby 10y ago
        Maybe city planners should borrow some ideas from CS, namely how to handle destructive operations while maintaining O(1) average cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_array https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_array
        iaskwhy 10y ago
        Why can't we consider expanding to new non-developed areas in this scenario? The main reason I'm anti high density areas is it's unhealthy: people are stressed, there's no sense of community, commerce space is scarce and extremely expensive to rent so { banks, supermarkets, estate agents } take all of them making any new commercial idea almost impossible to put through thus less employment too. I don't know much about this though, it's just my thoughts after living in very different areas and cities and how I feel about it.
        eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        >people are stressed You ever asked us? >there's no sense of community Says who? Ronald Reagan? >commerce space is scarce and extremely expensive to rent so { banks, supermarkets, estate agents } take all of them making any new commercial idea almost impossible to put through thus less employment too I guess I'll go tell all the shops and such in Davis Square that they don't exist.
        10y ago
    - cpkpad 10y ago
      Ain't gonna happen. It's a long chain of logic, but fractional reserve banking, at the levels we're seeing, prevents it. Most of our money supply is created through debt. As a result, housing is bought through debt rather than owned. The competition for better homes drives prices astronomical. The only way to actually get affordable housing is to either move people where there is no competition (e.g. desert of Arizona), or to reduce reserve limits. Fractional reserve banking generates trillions for big banks, and the electorate doesn't get it. It's not going away.
      - lordCarbonFiber 10y ago
        I implore you to take some time and read at least one or two credible papers on the subject, because your understanding of fractional reserve banking is frankly too misinformed to unpack in the space of a forum comment. Suffice it to say I've certainly never seen any indication that removing easy availability of credit results in positive outcomes for the classes who already lack in capital. I'll include some links for you to get started at the bottom. What can be addressed is the concept of affordable housing. Housing, to a certain degree follows a pretty tight supply and demand curve; put simply if you want affordable housing, pressure your local government to green light permits to build affordable housing[2]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_theory_of_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_theory_of_money [2]http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cities-see-apartment-rents-fall-for-first-time-in-years-1475614808 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cities-see-apartment-rents-f...
  - kwhitefoot 10y ago
    Not many here in Norway say that because here it is demonstrably untrue. Pretty much the only people who have to live in significantly worse conditions are illegal immigrants begging on the streets and sleeping rough.

by lambda 10y ago

moyta 10y ago

"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members" ~Pope John Paul II By treating prisoners humanely, a society is showing how it treats those who are at the bottom rungs of it. It is a reflection on the society itself.

jedrek 10y ago
A lot of people call those prisons "dorms" and they say that prisoners live in better conditions than a lot of people outside of prison. And yet, they don't make the jump to the idea that maybe people shouldn't be living in worse conditions.
- moyta 10y ago
  Definitely, I am a big believer in Housing First and affordable housing by allowing high density development, as it is a viable path forward for cities and it defends suburbs from pressure to redevelop much more destructive low density redevelopment.
  - iaskwhy 10y ago
    I'm getting off-topic here but can you share some resources on how low density developments are much more destructive? I'm usually very pro low density housing (and also very anti high density housing) so I'd like to have some new perspectives on this. Thanks.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      Consider this: My local road takes up ~40,000 square metres of space all in (road, front yards, houses, back yards). That houses 660 families. Near the local train station they'll be housing that same amount in <2,000 square metres of high density housing. So to handle twice the population, we could either free up ~2,000 square metres, or re-develop the entire road two have twice the density, leading to the loss of most of the single dwelling houses and private gardens. It's not so much that low density is bad, as that not having high density takes choice away once there's no more space and you have to start increasing density anyway, often in all kinds of suboptimal ways.
      - etatoby 10y ago
        Maybe city planners should borrow some ideas from CS, namely how to handle destructive operations while maintaining O(1) average cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_array https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_array
      - iaskwhy 10y ago
        Why can't we consider expanding to new non-developed areas in this scenario? The main reason I'm anti high density areas is it's unhealthy: people are stressed, there's no sense of community, commerce space is scarce and extremely expensive to rent so { banks, supermarkets, estate agents } take all of them making any new commercial idea almost impossible to put through thus less employment too. I don't know much about this though, it's just my thoughts after living in very different areas and cities and how I feel about it.
        eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        >people are stressed You ever asked us? >there's no sense of community Says who? Ronald Reagan? >commerce space is scarce and extremely expensive to rent so { banks, supermarkets, estate agents } take all of them making any new commercial idea almost impossible to put through thus less employment too I guess I'll go tell all the shops and such in Davis Square that they don't exist.
        10y ago
  - cpkpad 10y ago
    Ain't gonna happen. It's a long chain of logic, but fractional reserve banking, at the levels we're seeing, prevents it. Most of our money supply is created through debt. As a result, housing is bought through debt rather than owned. The competition for better homes drives prices astronomical. The only way to actually get affordable housing is to either move people where there is no competition (e.g. desert of Arizona), or to reduce reserve limits. Fractional reserve banking generates trillions for big banks, and the electorate doesn't get it. It's not going away.
    - lordCarbonFiber 10y ago
      I implore you to take some time and read at least one or two credible papers on the subject, because your understanding of fractional reserve banking is frankly too misinformed to unpack in the space of a forum comment. Suffice it to say I've certainly never seen any indication that removing easy availability of credit results in positive outcomes for the classes who already lack in capital. I'll include some links for you to get started at the bottom. What can be addressed is the concept of affordable housing. Housing, to a certain degree follows a pretty tight supply and demand curve; put simply if you want affordable housing, pressure your local government to green light permits to build affordable housing[2]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_theory_of_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_theory_of_money [2]http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cities-see-apartment-rents-fall-for-first-time-in-years-1475614808 http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cities-see-apartment-rents-f...
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  Not many here in Norway say that because here it is demonstrably untrue. Pretty much the only people who have to live in significantly worse conditions are illegal immigrants begging on the streets and sleeping rough.