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I'm all for prison reform, but other than the bits where officers do demeaning things to the prisoners, this really just becomes a list of things that prisoners

I'm all for prison reform, but other than the bits where officers do demeaning things to the prisoners, this really just becomes a list of things that prisoners feel would make their lives more comfortable. Well yeah, no shit. Of course they want it better in there. If they got all this, they'd eventually be complaining that they should have computers and playstations. Prison isn't supposed to be torture (physically or mentally) but it's also not supposed to be better than poor people have it. If poor people can't be taken care of to the point they have these things (and I think they should!) then I don't think starting with the prisons is the right way to go.

chappi42 10y ago
But one could start with the small things: "yelled at...". Totally unnecessary imho. Why do this?
throwawaycanada 10y ago
I don't think poor people are regularly locked in cages with HIV positive serial rapists.
- Avshalom 10y ago
  Right as "fucked" as the poor can be in this country prisoners have even less agency and are even more vulnerable to the abuses of the system they get thrown into.
deleted 10y ago
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wolfgke 10y ago
> If poor people can't be taken care of to the point they have these things (and I think they should!) then I don't think starting with the prisons is the right way to go. If you really care about this, then you should advocate that poor people don't produce children anymore so that at least "born poor", that is a common cause of poverty, is mostly eliminated.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  >then you should advocate that poor people don't produce children anymore so that at least "born poor" // That's a false conclusion. You could heavily tax the rich to ensure everyone [who had a child] had sufficient to live on and so no one would be "poor" (you'd have poorer, but not poor per se). There are probably further additional possible ways that the problem could be solved and hence further possible outcomes that the parent could advocate and maintain consistent logic.
williadc 10y ago
You're correct that most of these are asking for prison to be a more tolerable place to live. Making prison a rough experience should encourage inmates to avoid crimes which will send them back. The article's author contends that the current conditions in the prison where he serves his time re-enforce criminal behavior and empowers "gang recruiters, extortion, and other threats" by depriving prisoners. He has the advantage of seeing what happens each day, but has a sample-size issue in that he's only experienced a small number of prisons. I would be interested in seeing his proposals tested in a controlled studies. None of them seems difficult or expensive to implement.
- dom0 10y ago
  > Making prison a rough experience should encourage inmates to avoid crimes which will send them back. RoW actually shows that this basic approach does not work at all.

chappi42 10y ago

But one could start with the small things: "yelled at...". Totally unnecessary imho. Why do this?

throwawaycanada 10y ago

I don't think poor people are regularly locked in cages with HIV positive serial rapists.

Avshalom 10y ago
Right as "fucked" as the poor can be in this country prisoners have even less agency and are even more vulnerable to the abuses of the system they get thrown into.

deleted 10y ago

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wolfgke 10y ago

> If poor people can't be taken care of to the point they have these things (and I think they should!) then I don't think starting with the prisons is the right way to go. If you really care about this, then you should advocate that poor people don't produce children anymore so that at least "born poor", that is a common cause of poverty, is mostly eliminated.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
>then you should advocate that poor people don't produce children anymore so that at least "born poor" // That's a false conclusion. You could heavily tax the rich to ensure everyone [who had a child] had sufficient to live on and so no one would be "poor" (you'd have poorer, but not poor per se). There are probably further additional possible ways that the problem could be solved and hence further possible outcomes that the parent could advocate and maintain consistent logic.

williadc 10y ago

You're correct that most of these are asking for prison to be a more tolerable place to live. Making prison a rough experience should encourage inmates to avoid crimes which will send them back. The article's author contends that the current conditions in the prison where he serves his time re-enforce criminal behavior and empowers "gang recruiters, extortion, and other threats" by depriving prisoners. He has the advantage of seeing what happens each day, but has a sample-size issue in that he's only experienced a small number of prisons. I would be interested in seeing his proposals tested in a controlled studies. None of them seems difficult or expensive to implement.

dom0 10y ago
> Making prison a rough experience should encourage inmates to avoid crimes which will send them back. RoW actually shows that this basic approach does not work at all.