5 ms·

Do you have the rights to re-distribute this data?

by nixy 16y ago

iamelgringo 16y ago
There was no guidance whatsoever on the website I bought it from as to whether or not I could or couldn't redistribute. I agreed to nothing, I didn't click "next" on any licensing terms. The site I got if from was really pretty sketchy. The site was only 3 or 4 pages. A description of the product, a price list, a "buy now" page and a download page. I clicked the buy now button, paid $50 and downloaded a CSV. No license, no agreements. Nothing. Also, it was a March '09 that I did this, not March '10. Sorry about that. I'm really not trying to be shady at all with this, and I really had no idea that people would be uncomfortable with something like this or think it's wrong. If people have serious moral qualms about this being here, I'm happy to take it down. I just thought it was an interesting hack so I thought I'd share it.
- smanek 16y ago
  By the Berne convention, everything is copywritten on creation. And, to the best of my knowledge, the default is that you can't distribute a copywritten work unless you have an explicit license to do so. For example, I can walk into a book store and buy Harry Potter for cash, without signing a license agreement. But, that doesn't mean I can redistribute its contents. You are usually allowed to resell what you bought under the first sale doctrine (but not to sell copies of it). IANAL, etc etc
  - secret 16y ago
    I think there is an exception for "facts," although it may only apply to individual facts, not a collectioon of them. Any one here know more about this?
    - 0x44 16y ago
      I'm not a lawyer, but per Feist v. Rural, facts cannot be copyrighted in the United States. Collections of facts may be eligible for copyright, but it requires authorship, and hinges on the creativity of presentation (the author must select which facts to include, how to present them, etc.) but the facts within the collection are not entitled to copyright protection. If this collection was generated automatically by accessing the Google API, it would probably not qualify for copyright protection based on a lack of creativity in its creation. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=499&invol=340 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&#3...
btmorex 16y ago
Facts can't be copyrighted. There's no problem with redistributing the data.
- shabda 16y ago
  Facts and ideas can't be copyrighted, but their expression and structure can. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html This is definitely a copyright violation, and I am shocked and enraged that this was voted so highly on HN and not flagged. [Edits] 1. The standard "Recipes and collection of recipes" argument. This is a collection of recipes. 2. I am not shocked that there is a copyright violation. I am shocked that such an egregious violation has been voted so highly on HN. We are all digital workers on HN, and such disregard for digital work is (still) shocking.
  - davidu 16y ago
    Enraged? Your reaction doesn't fit the crime, as is so often the case with copyright.
  - hxa7241 16y ago
    It is ill-regard of the system, not disregard of the work.
  - muerdeme 16y ago
    Expression/structure can be copyrighted, but that's also not the whole story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications_v._Rural_Telephone_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications_v._Rural_Tel... If this document merely lists the keywords in ascending/descending order of popularity, it is unlikely that the author's expression is creative enough to warrant copyright.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  FWIW in the UK (and Europe I think) there are database rights too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_rights Where copyright is termed so as to protect a unique arrangement of data then an ordered listing would appear to be protected.

Do you have the rights to re-distribute this data?

by nixy 16y ago

Do you have the rights to re-distribute this data?

There was no guidance whatsoever on the website I bought it from as to whether or not I could or couldn't redistribute. I agreed to nothing, I didn't click "next" on any licensing terms. The site I got if from was really pretty sketchy. The site was only 3 or 4 pages. A description of the product, a price list, a "buy now" page and a download page. I clicked the buy now button, paid $50 and downloaded a CSV. No license, no agreements. Nothing. Also, it was a March '09 that I did this, not March '10. Sorry about that. I'm really not trying to be shady at all with this, and I really had no idea that people would be uncomfortable with something like this or think it's wrong. If people have serious moral qualms about this being here, I'm happy to take it down. I just thought it was an interesting hack so I thought I'd share it.

smanek 16y ago
By the Berne convention, everything is copywritten on creation. And, to the best of my knowledge, the default is that you can't distribute a copywritten work unless you have an explicit license to do so. For example, I can walk into a book store and buy Harry Potter for cash, without signing a license agreement. But, that doesn't mean I can redistribute its contents. You are usually allowed to resell what you bought under the first sale doctrine (but not to sell copies of it). IANAL, etc etc
- secret 16y ago
  I think there is an exception for "facts," although it may only apply to individual facts, not a collectioon of them. Any one here know more about this?
  - 0x44 16y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, but per Feist v. Rural, facts cannot be copyrighted in the United States. Collections of facts may be eligible for copyright, but it requires authorship, and hinges on the creativity of presentation (the author must select which facts to include, how to present them, etc.) but the facts within the collection are not entitled to copyright protection. If this collection was generated automatically by accessing the Google API, it would probably not qualify for copyright protection based on a lack of creativity in its creation. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=499&invol=340 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&#3...

btmorex 16y ago

Facts can't be copyrighted. There's no problem with redistributing the data.

shabda 16y ago
Facts and ideas can't be copyrighted, but their expression and structure can. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html This is definitely a copyright violation, and I am shocked and enraged that this was voted so highly on HN and not flagged. [Edits] 1. The standard "Recipes and collection of recipes" argument. This is a collection of recipes. 2. I am not shocked that there is a copyright violation. I am shocked that such an egregious violation has been voted so highly on HN. We are all digital workers on HN, and such disregard for digital work is (still) shocking.
- davidu 16y ago
  Enraged? Your reaction doesn't fit the crime, as is so often the case with copyright.
- hxa7241 16y ago
  It is ill-regard of the system, not disregard of the work.
- muerdeme 16y ago
  Expression/structure can be copyrighted, but that's also not the whole story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications_v._Rural_Telephone_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications_v._Rural_Tel... If this document merely lists the keywords in ascending/descending order of popularity, it is unlikely that the author's expression is creative enough to warrant copyright.
pbhjpbhj 16y ago
FWIW in the UK (and Europe I think) there are database rights too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_rights Where copyright is termed so as to protect a unique arrangement of data then an ordered listing would appear to be protected.