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A Lost World of Shipwrecks Is Found
- hetfeld 10y agoLog In Don't have an account? Sign up here »
- grzm 10y agoClick the web link associated with the submission and follow the search link. It looks like you've commented about paywalls/signups before. Are you having issues with using the web link? I've seen people comment about issues with the web links, but have never experienced it myself.
- SkyMarshal 10y agoHow does a paywall article with no comments make it to the top post?
- elihu 10y agoIt's not blocking me at the moment.
- grzm 10y agoIt's got 16 up-votes at the time of this comment. From what I've seen, ranking is based on some function of comment count, up-vote, and time.
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoWell ranking is a blackbox. Perhaps one of the mods took a bung /jk.
- revelation 10y agoNo comments actually improves the ranking
- grzm 10y agoOh, really? That's really interesting! Do you have a reference for this?
- jacobolus 10y agoIf there are more comments than upvotes, a story will rapidly fall off the front page. It’s supposed to be a measure to prevent “flamewars”, but often results in good discussions being black-holed.
- revelation 10y agoThe exact calculation is notoriously unclear (presumably by design, or you could game it) but there is a penalty for what the algorithm deems "flamewar" topics which cause many comments in a short time. There is some analysis here: http://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-really-works.html http://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-really... And it's certainly true from experience.
- grzm 10y agoHuh. Makes sense. Thanks for the reference!
- microcolonel 10y agohttp://archive.is/4Kmku http://archive.is/4Kmku
- mwfunk 10y agoClick the 'web' link, which will go to a Google search for the article, then click the top search hit. No paywall.
- wowReallyGuys 10y agoUhhh. NYT uses a simple cookie to determine paywall, o' users of HN. This is not a difficult thing to bypass. Not even slightly. If you have a hard time defeating a roadblock established purely based on a plaintext variable in a simple, vanilla browser cookie, maybe consider whether you should be commenting at all. It counts down from 10. It is not bound to an IP address. A login is not required. Ergo, this is not a "wall." It is a solicitation. It is a warning prompt at best. They know this, and now you do too.
- lifeisstillgood 10y agoSarcasm aside, this knowledge is not the issue. The decision is the cost benefit analysis of actually manually altering the cookie (presumably setting it back to ten) versus going and doing something else with my life. As I am usually reading on iPhone and as I generally happy with the freedom trade- off and as iPhone cookie altering seems to be a RRPITA I simply won't read the article and will move on. Never assume that ignorance is the reason for another's actions - something surprisingly relevant this week.
- saghm 10y agoCouldn't you also just open an incognito/private window in your browser, which would not have any cookies present and take virtually no effort (as opposed to manually editing the cookie or preventing it from being sent)?
- wowReallyGuys 10y agoPrivate windows in mobile safari also work, by isolating all cookies to the current window/tab. And there's no need to inject political commentary here, there and everywhere.
- wruza 10y agoStop hysterics, please.
- the_duke 10y ago
- manigandham 10y agoAmazing find, strange that it took so long to actually search the Black Sea considering the perfect oxygen-less environment for preserving these wrecks.
- toyg 10y agoMost of that was under USSR control until recently. Even after '89, it would take some time to figure out good sites, get funds, get permissions etc.
- Drdrdrq 10y agoI don't think this the reason - there were archeological expeditions under Societ Union, and it's been 25 years. Was there some technological breakthrough, or some other political change lately?
- Houshalter 10y agoThere was an expedition in 2000 that located a few wrecks. This new project is locating a lot more, and they are using new 3d scanning things mentioned in the article. Probably the biggest constraint is funding. They mention this is paid for by some anonymous rich donor.
- InclinedPlane 10y agoThe Black Sea is huge, even sonar sleds have fairly narrow widths, so it would take a ton of work to find potential wrecks, and you need to visit all of them to determine which ones are modern and which are older. And that's a very long and costly process since it's well below diving level and very dark. You have to send down an ROV which can basically see only a little in front of itself and in a narrow field of view.
- 127 10y ago>Photogrammetry, a process using thousands of photographs and readings, produced a rendering that appears three-dimensional. Photogrammetry generates actual three dimensional images, not merely appearances of.
- jay_kyburz 10y agoIf if you want to pedantic, all images are by definition 2 dimensional and can only appear 3D
- kctess5 10y agoI believe that photogrammetry can reconstruct 3D geometry, especially with the help of range sensors like the article mentions. The process results in 3D information like triangle meshes in addition to 2d images.
- greendestiny 10y agoYeah but in defence of the guy you're replying to, once you render them they are 2d images.
- Joeboy 10y agoAnd before that they're 3D models.
- sosuke 10y agoI keep finding photogrammetry papers discussing how to get the sizes of objects from photos. But those look like photographs and yet somehow seem unreal. Do you know any good intro to the subject? Something that would show a regular photo and the photogrammetric side by side?
- greendestiny 10y agoYou can try it yourself with commercial software: http://www.123dapp.com/catch http://www.123dapp.com/catch Scale can be hard to capture in photogrammetry, but in general the unrealness probably has more to do with the somewhat smoothed out (triangulated) surface that doesn't capture too fine a level of detail and the textureless (uncoloured) model they are rendering.
- durkie 10y agoAnyone that finds this interesting should pick up the book "Ship of Gold" by Gary Kinder. It's a quick read and a great tale of eccentric folks pursuing deepwater wrecks and having to develop all sorts of new tech (and fight off competitors) to do so.
- BurningFrog 10y agoThe Baltic also preserves wrecks extremely well, due to the lack of wood eating creatures.
- DanBC 10y agoMaybe I missed it, but what happens to the corpses? Are they also somewhat preserved, or do they rot slowly?
- 13of40 10y agoIIRC they still find human bones around the Antikythera wreck every once in a while. At the very least they did when it was first excavated at the end of the 19th century, and that was in regular medium-shallow salt water.
- jccalhoun 10y agoMy guess would be the soft tissue gets eaten by fishes. I don't know what would happen to bones.
- InclinedPlane 10y agoThey might not be located near the wreck. This is a small vessel with a crew of only 20 or so. At any given time almost all of the crew would be on deck, even if they weren't they would have if the boat began sinking. The crew likely would have been in the water as the boat sank, and even if they did die they may not have ended up in the same location (a dead body in the sea doesn't sink at first).
- calewis 10y agoThe fact that the financier wishes to remain anonymous hopefully means they are just humble. Nice to see someone's wealth being put into something we can all enjoy.
- edblarney 10y agoPublicity = Risk these days. Anyone putting their name out, for anything, risks getting someone, somewhere, really pissed off. One sentence can start a global riot of the press get behind it.
- kafkaesq 10y agoYep. Anyone smart enough to get that rich usually figures out that the attention that comes with it is at best, tiresome (and often quite aggravating).
- the_duke 10y agoMost rich people just want to stay anonymous and protect their privacy. Most billionaires you have never and will never hear about.
- chinathrow 10y agoMost? Is there any data to back this up?
- eriknstr 10y agoVery cool. I think the article was a bit light on images though, having only four of them and mentioning that 40 ships were found. Would like to see many more images of the ships. Also, the researchers should consider making a VR experience for VR headsets based on the 3d data they have.
- the_duke 10y agoIs there a gallery with more photos somewhere?
- rebuilder 10y agoLooks very cool - where are the models?
- tgb 10y agoHow faked are these photos? They're labelled "photogrammetric" as if to hedge how real they are, but I don't know if that means they're photoshopped. I ask because most large-scale underwater photographs are faked since visibility is usually low underwater and there just isn't enough light. Google images of "Titanic underwater" and you get either close-ups, hyper-realistic drawings, or mosaics. It's easy to think that this guys work are real photos: http://www.kenmarschall.com/wreck.html#Num5 http://www.kenmarschall.com/wreck.html#Num5
- InclinedPlane 10y agoThey are not photos, that's made clear from the article, they are renderings. Think of it this way, the ROV goes down and uses a high resolution sonar instrument to see the 3D structure in front of it down to a centimeter/millimeter level of detail, at the same time it takes pictures. Then they take all that data and process it with a computer in order to generate basically a 3D textured model. Then they take renderings from that model and produce the images you've seen. The individual images from the ROVs would be much less interesting due to the very small field of view and the limitations of the lights. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry
- tgb 10y agoIn no way was it clear to me whether or not the images were the renderings that was produced, I'm aware of photogrammetry and the limitations of the underwater photographs (hence my question), I even have experience doing computer vision with underwater ROVs and their limited cameras (though ours had good field-of-view). The problem is that with their captions, I first assumed that it's a photo used for photogrammetry. Or rather, I thought it was a mosaic of photos, all of which were used for photogrammetry. If I were the NYT and didn't want these to be mistaken for photographs, I'd label them as "renderings of a photogrammetric model" or such. As it is, a "photogrammetric image" could be one of several things. In retrospect, there are some tell-tale signs (like the edge of the model where the ground is discontinuous).
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- Dowwie 10y agoClick bait title. Came to read about affordable care act and was disappointed.
- peter303 10y agoThe Black Sea is famously anaerobic - no oxygen and few microbes to consume organics. Wood and human remains would disappear in decades in other places. And the Titanic is decaying from iron-loving bacteria. The iron and steel parts will be gone in another century.
- fairpx 10y agoThere is so much awesome stuff to be discovered in our own seas. Would love to see space exploration and deep sea exploration on the same level of excitement, investment and pursuit. I would even argue that Google, the company who's mission it is to organize the world's information should focus on these things vs building Chat apps