9 ms·

This post-election narrative that liberals hate Trump out of elitist bigotry is killing me. People hate Donald Trump because they're afraid they'll be deported,

This post-election narrative that liberals hate Trump out of elitist bigotry is killing me. People hate Donald Trump because they're afraid they'll be deported, or their friends and family will be deported. This is very real and very personal for a lot of people, I think it's lame to tell them "calm down, why can't you be nice?" and other platitudes about uniting the country.

oh_sigh 10y ago
So.....legal immigrants are afraid of being deported? That's called irrational fear. It has no basis in reality.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Ya, and let's not forget his "grab them in the kittens" remark. There is no way to explain that away, none! GWB, even though he stole the election, was much easier to accept than this guy. We are merely afraid that Trump is as bad as he sounds, whatever the press said about him is irrelevant to that, and much more concrete than Hilary's abstract emails.
- slowmotiony 10y ago
  My friends use this kind of language between each other all the time, as I imagine other groups of friends as well - and they are all normal people with loving wives. You're trying to be dramatic but you're actually being funny.
  - willismichael 10y ago
    In part, it's this kind of casual dismissal that many people are concerned about.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    You have strange friends then. I can't imagine any of my friends saying that kind of thing, or quite simply they wouldn't be my friends anymore. I'm not being elitist or dramatic here, I just can't stand and wouldn't stand for that kind of talk. But I guess many voters out there thought like you. I just can't comprehend it personally. I'm sure there are many of us who don't consider such talk moral and acceptable even in casual settings.
    - goostavos 10y ago
      >I can't imagine any of my friends saying that kind of thing These comments always make me chuckle. You live in a squeaky clean world that I've personally never experienced and I'm not really sure where you go do find it. I mean, hell, browse around on any popular image sharing site for 5 minutes and you'll see worse comments in any thread with a vaguely attractive female. If you've ever been in a men's bathroom, you've overheard these types of obnoxious conversations. But collectively, America loves to gasp and shout about how utterly shocking it is that people would talk in such a manner! Outrageous! "Well, I never!"
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        I have never heard these kind of things spoken in a men's bathroom. We obviously are using different ones.
    - slowmotiony 10y ago
      Your comment literally made me cringe inside.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        Your's made me cringe even more. I really don't get America, open racist and sexist signaling and an electorate that would react positively to that. Whatever.
  - CyberDildonics 10y ago
    Should those friends be commander and chief of the largest military force in the world?
    - slowmotiony 10y ago
      No - he should be absolutely perfect in every way and never have used a swear word, even privately among friends.
      - CyberDildonics 10y ago
        So those friends -should- have that much power?
        lagadu 10y ago
        If elected to do so, yes. I'd like to reverse the question on you though: Should what he said in private make him legally ineligible to hold office or even any job?
        slowmotiony 10y ago
        Of course not - the election should be cancelled, the votes should be thrown into a garbage can and it should just be you who picks the best candidate.
      - dgacmu 10y ago
        You're misstating the concern, which I assume you recognize. Nobody gives a fuck (see what I did there? :-) if Trump used a swear word. What people are concerned about was that he bragged that he was able to capitalize on his fame to assault somebody. I'm going to presume you're male - how would you feel if, say, Newt Gingrich walked up to you and grabbed your penis? Many people swear -- heck, I just did so in a public post under my own identity just to make a point! Many people use many terms to describe male and female anatomy. Nobody I know brags about being able to willfully assault people.
      - yequalsx 10y ago
        What a magnificent deflection. No one is angry that he said "grab them by the pussy". It's that he does this without consent. He does this because he has power and can. That's what is deplorable. Your defense of this is also deplorable.
- acqq 10y ago
  Look at this one, then try to be serious: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-holds-high-flag-gay-equality/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-...
  - dgacmu 10y ago
    For a broader view: https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_LGBTQ_rights https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_LGBT... Trump himself has gone both directions on some of these issues, so it's hard to understand what his personal position really is, but he's made more statements -- particularly recently -- that indicate opposition to federal protections for LGBT. (I'm choosing my words carefully - he's indicated that he wants to defer many of these issues to the states, when pressed on it.) It's likely that Trump is - from a personal perspective - one of the more LGBT-friendly republicans, outside of the Log Cabin Republicans crew. Viewed through the lens of whom he selected as his running mate, the Trump Team (as opposed to Trump himself) is rightly viewed as threatening for both marriage equality and transgender rights. Pence has a very consistent history of voting both against protection for LGBT, as well as actively supporting discriminatory policies such as "don't ask, don't tell" and proactive definitions of marriage as between one man and one woman.
    - acqq 10y ago
      I fully agree the major problem for this particular issue is that too much of the GOP identifies with being anti-LGBT. That is serious. But Trump personally seems to be the only one among them that was able to do this flag stuff all and still remain supported. I consider as the major GOP problem, over all other issues, global warming denial. It's easy to see that even here it's not recognized.
- emp_zealoth 10y ago
  Seriously, there is no way to explain that remark? Have you never talked shit off the record? Did you never ever laugh at a racist/classist/* - ist joke? I agree that Trump will probably be bad, but thats because he clearly has no plan whatsoever. Yet entire Clinton campaign was just shit slinging, manufactured outrage, meaningless pandering, name calling, avoiding burning issues, more shit slinging, more pandering She could have gone out and ripped him to shreds should she have focussed on actual plans Instead she just goes out and calls people deplorable everything-phobes because they dare to oppose PC nonsense. Wanting to deport illegal immigrants is not racist. Pretending that there are no problems with islam, where you've got Europe as a control environment (where they harbor and abet proper terrorists and obstruct law enforcement as hard as they can) is fucking crazy)
  - yequalsx 10y ago
    It's not manufactured outrage. Trump said he uses his power status to grope women without consent simply because he can. He bragged about walking in on teen constestants whilst they were nude. It wasn't him talking shit it was him bragging about doing said shit.
    - emp_zealoth 10y ago
      Was there any proof? Apart of him talking shit with some other brodudebros while being stupid enoug to keep the mic on...
      - yequalsx 10y ago
        Depends on what you consider proof. I mean, the man himself said that he gropes women because he can. He said this in a private conversation without any knowledge of being recorded. I have not reason not believe his claim. Maybe he was blustering but I don't believe it. He's claimed to walk in on beauty contestants while they are naked. He didn't mind when Howard Stern referred to his daughter as a "piece of ass". The totality of what we know about Donald Trump is such that it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that he has never groped women.
    - 10y ago
- lagadu 10y ago
  Have you considered that when it comes to electing politicians people don't put anywhere as much weight into personal remarks a candidate makes but rather the policies he's planning or how well he represents them? That was a comment made in private and lightly. He didn't get on a podium and said that was going to be the Government's policy. I feel that you're equating Donald Trump the private person with Donald Trump the (future) head of state.
  - id 10y ago
    Actual policies matter much less than you would think. Both candidates either didn't talk about their proposals at all or were very vague about them. And many if not most of Trumps positions remain unclear to this day.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Daughter to mom: "Hey mom, this Hitler guy was just elected chancellor who is saying hateful things about Jews! We are Jewish, I'm scared!" mom: "Don't worry, he was just saying this stuff to get elected, I'm sure he isn't that bad." The world is upside down right now.
madengr 10y ago
Well if they are illegal aliens (not immigrants), they should be deported.
- pj_mukh 10y ago
  What about Muslims waiting for a green card[1]? Are they "Illegal"? What if you are a non-muslim but just from a "terror prone" country? I'm not smug. I'm scared. Forgive me for not being "nice" to the supporters of a candidate who would strike existential fear in my heart. [1]: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... [2]: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/22/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-how-could-it-work.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/22/us/politics/tr...
  - madengr 10y ago
    Were they granted asylum, then waiting for a green card? If so, they are not illegal. Deportation requires a hearing.
    - pj_mukh 10y ago
      They need not be refugees either. But Trump's new laws ban the "immigration" of Muslims. This means, a freeze on green-card approvals based on religion. If you don't have a green-card, you have to leave this country. Not all deportations are carried out by ICE. P.S: Green-card applications could be active for over 8 years with no-fault. The system is just that screwed up.
      - madengr 10y ago
        What he actually said was: temporarily banning muslims from certain countries known to harbor terrorists. Not sure why you saw "law". Only congress can make laws; not the president. Besides, the 1 st amendment is in his way. There is some precident for banning immigrants from certain countries. Chinese immigration was banned for a time, over 100 years ago.
slowmotiony 10y ago
So they are afraid the actual law will be enforced, because they're criminals.
- wcummings 10y ago
  They're afraid because their lives are in America. Do you think the law should be changed? Should we try to perfectly enforce every law, no matter how cruel or costly it is? Should the DEA start raiding cancer patients again? Laws are always selectively enforced, by necessity. Politicians, prosecutors, police chiefs, LEO's and others dictate how resources are allocated to enforcement.
  - slowmotiony 10y ago
    And an election should decide who should be the one to allocate those resources with the people's best interest in mind. That's literally what happened.
rwmj 10y ago
I'm worried he might withdraw the US from NATO, also a very real worry.
- madengr 10y ago
  I think it's funny that Europe wanted the US off their soil since the end of the Cold War. Now that Russia is moving westward, they are all worried about the US leaving. Trump wants Europe to foot more of the bill for NATO.
- icu 10y ago
  While I understand where you are coming from please consider it through the lens of a re-negotiation opportunity. Personally I don't think NATO will be dismantled by Trump as it is a keystone to US foreign influence and power and I believe it will ultimately be strengthened because NATO members have historically got a 'free ride' by not meeting their defence obligations under the treaty. This means that the benefits of defence, such as economic stability and growth of the 'free rider' nations were subsidised by the US tax payer. How is that fair? I know that many here may find it unpalatable, but if people were to read 'Art of the Deal' I believe it will give them insight into how Trump will deal with NATO, any other re-negotiations as well as how he won the election.
  - ofur-robbi 10y ago
    The effectiveness of NATO is entirely based on the threat of retaliation from all member countries, in case one of them is attacked, being credible. While asking all member countries to pay their fair share may be reasonable making statements which reduce the credibility of the threat is massively irresponsible. And since you bring up the Art of the Deal you may "enjoy" this article by Tony Schwartz, the ghost writer of said book. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-g...
  - wikibob 10y ago
    Do you know that the art of the deal wasn't written at all by trump, and the guy who wrote it doesn't support him?
atemerev 10y ago
People who are afraid of being deported are illegal aliens, so they weren't able to vote. I fully support their plight and their right (I am myself an immigrant, a legal alien for 11 years with little chance of acquiring citizenship), however, this is exactly the limit of modern democracy. Non-citizens do not vote, despite living in the country and sharing similar rights and responsibilities. Birthright citizenship is the largest remaining privilege and discrimination out there — legally enforced, and nearly as oppressive as racial discrimination before. It was really convenient to sweep the issue under the rug — until now.
- camiller 10y ago
  "I am myself an immigrant, a legal alien for 11 years with little chance of acquiring citizenship" I'm curious, why do you think you have little chance of acquiring citizenship?
  - atemerev 10y ago
    I live in Switzerland, which has strict policies on naturalization. My wife is a scientist (postdoc mathematician), so we have to travel a lot between countries — in Europe, mobility is a significant part of academic culture. Each time (4 times, in fact). Each time, our "uninterrupted time spent in Switzerland" counter was reset.
JackFr 10y ago
I think you miss the point - liberals hate Trump voters. And if your feeling is that anyone who voted for Trump is worthy only of contempt, then you truly missed the point. Many are willing to see a failure of empathy in others but not in themselves.
- techxit 10y ago
  I'm very liberal and have a lot of admiration for Obama and Clinton, despite their flaws. I don't hate Donald Trump or Donald Trump voters. I feel sad for them and for the fact that our country has disemployed so many people, and left so many people out in the cold, that they felt like their only living option was... this. I'd pity them, but they want my pity even less than my hate. I hate the racism and sexism that his movement represents. I hate that people are treating his election as a vindication of the worst elements of our nation's history, rather than an expression of sheer desperation from the burping turtle at the bottom of the stack. I've worked in tech for 10 years. It's full of people who did not vocally support Trump (and may well have voted for Clinton) but who perpetuate sexism and racism and think that they're doing so for valid business reasons ("culture fit"). I know who the enemy is and I know who to hate. It's not the guy in Milwaukee who lost his job and his dignity and can't afford to insure his family and gets socked with an "individual mandate" penalty for it.
  - basch 10y ago
    >a lot of admiration for Obama and Clinton, despite their flaws That is a problem. Because despite you overlooking their flaws, the "portions of the country that have been most ravaged by free trade orgies and globalism — Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa — were filled with rage" saw "a protector and beneficiary of all the worst components of status quo elite corruption" and overlooked intolerance and targeted crony capitalist corruption. Solely focusing on “racism/sexism/xenophobia” while ignoring “economic suffering” is what led to this outcome. Cenk Uygur put it succinctly during the primaries: “Instead of looking at it as, ‘Hey, one guy hasn’t taken corrupting money and the other one has,’ you frame it as male vs. female,” Uygur said. “And hence, put me in a position where I’m forced to say, no, I don’t think it would be historic because I think it’s the same old establishment.”

oh_sigh 10y ago

So.....legal immigrants are afraid of being deported? That's called irrational fear. It has no basis in reality.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

Ya, and let's not forget his "grab them in the kittens" remark. There is no way to explain that away, none! GWB, even though he stole the election, was much easier to accept than this guy. We are merely afraid that Trump is as bad as he sounds, whatever the press said about him is irrelevant to that, and much more concrete than Hilary's abstract emails.

slowmotiony 10y ago
My friends use this kind of language between each other all the time, as I imagine other groups of friends as well - and they are all normal people with loving wives. You're trying to be dramatic but you're actually being funny.
- willismichael 10y ago
  In part, it's this kind of casual dismissal that many people are concerned about.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  You have strange friends then. I can't imagine any of my friends saying that kind of thing, or quite simply they wouldn't be my friends anymore. I'm not being elitist or dramatic here, I just can't stand and wouldn't stand for that kind of talk. But I guess many voters out there thought like you. I just can't comprehend it personally. I'm sure there are many of us who don't consider such talk moral and acceptable even in casual settings.
  - goostavos 10y ago
    >I can't imagine any of my friends saying that kind of thing These comments always make me chuckle. You live in a squeaky clean world that I've personally never experienced and I'm not really sure where you go do find it. I mean, hell, browse around on any popular image sharing site for 5 minutes and you'll see worse comments in any thread with a vaguely attractive female. If you've ever been in a men's bathroom, you've overheard these types of obnoxious conversations. But collectively, America loves to gasp and shout about how utterly shocking it is that people would talk in such a manner! Outrageous! "Well, I never!"
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      I have never heard these kind of things spoken in a men's bathroom. We obviously are using different ones.
  - slowmotiony 10y ago
    Your comment literally made me cringe inside.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Your's made me cringe even more. I really don't get America, open racist and sexist signaling and an electorate that would react positively to that. Whatever.
- CyberDildonics 10y ago
  Should those friends be commander and chief of the largest military force in the world?
  - slowmotiony 10y ago
    No - he should be absolutely perfect in every way and never have used a swear word, even privately among friends.
    - CyberDildonics 10y ago
      So those friends -should- have that much power?
      - lagadu 10y ago
        If elected to do so, yes. I'd like to reverse the question on you though: Should what he said in private make him legally ineligible to hold office or even any job?
      - slowmotiony 10y ago
        Of course not - the election should be cancelled, the votes should be thrown into a garbage can and it should just be you who picks the best candidate.
    - dgacmu 10y ago
      You're misstating the concern, which I assume you recognize. Nobody gives a fuck (see what I did there? :-) if Trump used a swear word. What people are concerned about was that he bragged that he was able to capitalize on his fame to assault somebody. I'm going to presume you're male - how would you feel if, say, Newt Gingrich walked up to you and grabbed your penis? Many people swear -- heck, I just did so in a public post under my own identity just to make a point! Many people use many terms to describe male and female anatomy. Nobody I know brags about being able to willfully assault people.
    - yequalsx 10y ago
      What a magnificent deflection. No one is angry that he said "grab them by the pussy". It's that he does this without consent. He does this because he has power and can. That's what is deplorable. Your defense of this is also deplorable.
acqq 10y ago
Look at this one, then try to be serious: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-holds-high-flag-gay-equality/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-...
- dgacmu 10y ago
  For a broader view: https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_LGBTQ_rights https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_LGBT... Trump himself has gone both directions on some of these issues, so it's hard to understand what his personal position really is, but he's made more statements -- particularly recently -- that indicate opposition to federal protections for LGBT. (I'm choosing my words carefully - he's indicated that he wants to defer many of these issues to the states, when pressed on it.) It's likely that Trump is - from a personal perspective - one of the more LGBT-friendly republicans, outside of the Log Cabin Republicans crew. Viewed through the lens of whom he selected as his running mate, the Trump Team (as opposed to Trump himself) is rightly viewed as threatening for both marriage equality and transgender rights. Pence has a very consistent history of voting both against protection for LGBT, as well as actively supporting discriminatory policies such as "don't ask, don't tell" and proactive definitions of marriage as between one man and one woman.
  - acqq 10y ago
    I fully agree the major problem for this particular issue is that too much of the GOP identifies with being anti-LGBT. That is serious. But Trump personally seems to be the only one among them that was able to do this flag stuff all and still remain supported. I consider as the major GOP problem, over all other issues, global warming denial. It's easy to see that even here it's not recognized.
emp_zealoth 10y ago
Seriously, there is no way to explain that remark? Have you never talked shit off the record? Did you never ever laugh at a racist/classist/* - ist joke? I agree that Trump will probably be bad, but thats because he clearly has no plan whatsoever. Yet entire Clinton campaign was just shit slinging, manufactured outrage, meaningless pandering, name calling, avoiding burning issues, more shit slinging, more pandering She could have gone out and ripped him to shreds should she have focussed on actual plans Instead she just goes out and calls people deplorable everything-phobes because they dare to oppose PC nonsense. Wanting to deport illegal immigrants is not racist. Pretending that there are no problems with islam, where you've got Europe as a control environment (where they harbor and abet proper terrorists and obstruct law enforcement as hard as they can) is fucking crazy)
- yequalsx 10y ago
  It's not manufactured outrage. Trump said he uses his power status to grope women without consent simply because he can. He bragged about walking in on teen constestants whilst they were nude. It wasn't him talking shit it was him bragging about doing said shit.
  - emp_zealoth 10y ago
    Was there any proof? Apart of him talking shit with some other brodudebros while being stupid enoug to keep the mic on...
    - yequalsx 10y ago
      Depends on what you consider proof. I mean, the man himself said that he gropes women because he can. He said this in a private conversation without any knowledge of being recorded. I have not reason not believe his claim. Maybe he was blustering but I don't believe it. He's claimed to walk in on beauty contestants while they are naked. He didn't mind when Howard Stern referred to his daughter as a "piece of ass". The totality of what we know about Donald Trump is such that it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that he has never groped women.
  - 10y ago
lagadu 10y ago
Have you considered that when it comes to electing politicians people don't put anywhere as much weight into personal remarks a candidate makes but rather the policies he's planning or how well he represents them? That was a comment made in private and lightly. He didn't get on a podium and said that was going to be the Government's policy. I feel that you're equating Donald Trump the private person with Donald Trump the (future) head of state.
- id 10y ago
  Actual policies matter much less than you would think. Both candidates either didn't talk about their proposals at all or were very vague about them. And many if not most of Trumps positions remain unclear to this day.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Daughter to mom: "Hey mom, this Hitler guy was just elected chancellor who is saying hateful things about Jews! We are Jewish, I'm scared!" mom: "Don't worry, he was just saying this stuff to get elected, I'm sure he isn't that bad." The world is upside down right now.

madengr 10y ago

Well if they are illegal aliens (not immigrants), they should be deported.

pj_mukh 10y ago
What about Muslims waiting for a green card[1]? Are they "Illegal"? What if you are a non-muslim but just from a "terror prone" country? I'm not smug. I'm scared. Forgive me for not being "nice" to the supporters of a candidate who would strike existential fear in my heart. [1]: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-... [2]: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/22/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-how-could-it-work.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/22/us/politics/tr...
- madengr 10y ago
  Were they granted asylum, then waiting for a green card? If so, they are not illegal. Deportation requires a hearing.
  - pj_mukh 10y ago
    They need not be refugees either. But Trump's new laws ban the "immigration" of Muslims. This means, a freeze on green-card approvals based on religion. If you don't have a green-card, you have to leave this country. Not all deportations are carried out by ICE. P.S: Green-card applications could be active for over 8 years with no-fault. The system is just that screwed up.
    - madengr 10y ago
      What he actually said was: temporarily banning muslims from certain countries known to harbor terrorists. Not sure why you saw "law". Only congress can make laws; not the president. Besides, the 1 st amendment is in his way. There is some precident for banning immigrants from certain countries. Chinese immigration was banned for a time, over 100 years ago.

slowmotiony 10y ago

So they are afraid the actual law will be enforced, because they're criminals.

wcummings 10y ago
They're afraid because their lives are in America. Do you think the law should be changed? Should we try to perfectly enforce every law, no matter how cruel or costly it is? Should the DEA start raiding cancer patients again? Laws are always selectively enforced, by necessity. Politicians, prosecutors, police chiefs, LEO's and others dictate how resources are allocated to enforcement.
- slowmotiony 10y ago
  And an election should decide who should be the one to allocate those resources with the people's best interest in mind. That's literally what happened.

rwmj 10y ago

I'm worried he might withdraw the US from NATO, also a very real worry.

madengr 10y ago
I think it's funny that Europe wanted the US off their soil since the end of the Cold War. Now that Russia is moving westward, they are all worried about the US leaving. Trump wants Europe to foot more of the bill for NATO.
icu 10y ago
While I understand where you are coming from please consider it through the lens of a re-negotiation opportunity. Personally I don't think NATO will be dismantled by Trump as it is a keystone to US foreign influence and power and I believe it will ultimately be strengthened because NATO members have historically got a 'free ride' by not meeting their defence obligations under the treaty. This means that the benefits of defence, such as economic stability and growth of the 'free rider' nations were subsidised by the US tax payer. How is that fair? I know that many here may find it unpalatable, but if people were to read 'Art of the Deal' I believe it will give them insight into how Trump will deal with NATO, any other re-negotiations as well as how he won the election.
- ofur-robbi 10y ago
  The effectiveness of NATO is entirely based on the threat of retaliation from all member countries, in case one of them is attacked, being credible. While asking all member countries to pay their fair share may be reasonable making statements which reduce the credibility of the threat is massively irresponsible. And since you bring up the Art of the Deal you may "enjoy" this article by Tony Schwartz, the ghost writer of said book. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-g...
- wikibob 10y ago
  Do you know that the art of the deal wasn't written at all by trump, and the guy who wrote it doesn't support him?

atemerev 10y ago

People who are afraid of being deported are illegal aliens, so they weren't able to vote. I fully support their plight and their right (I am myself an immigrant, a legal alien for 11 years with little chance of acquiring citizenship), however, this is exactly the limit of modern democracy. Non-citizens do not vote, despite living in the country and sharing similar rights and responsibilities. Birthright citizenship is the largest remaining privilege and discrimination out there — legally enforced, and nearly as oppressive as racial discrimination before. It was really convenient to sweep the issue under the rug — until now.

camiller 10y ago
"I am myself an immigrant, a legal alien for 11 years with little chance of acquiring citizenship" I'm curious, why do you think you have little chance of acquiring citizenship?
- atemerev 10y ago
  I live in Switzerland, which has strict policies on naturalization. My wife is a scientist (postdoc mathematician), so we have to travel a lot between countries — in Europe, mobility is a significant part of academic culture. Each time (4 times, in fact). Each time, our "uninterrupted time spent in Switzerland" counter was reset.

JackFr 10y ago

I think you miss the point - liberals hate Trump voters. And if your feeling is that anyone who voted for Trump is worthy only of contempt, then you truly missed the point. Many are willing to see a failure of empathy in others but not in themselves.

techxit 10y ago
I'm very liberal and have a lot of admiration for Obama and Clinton, despite their flaws. I don't hate Donald Trump or Donald Trump voters. I feel sad for them and for the fact that our country has disemployed so many people, and left so many people out in the cold, that they felt like their only living option was... this. I'd pity them, but they want my pity even less than my hate. I hate the racism and sexism that his movement represents. I hate that people are treating his election as a vindication of the worst elements of our nation's history, rather than an expression of sheer desperation from the burping turtle at the bottom of the stack. I've worked in tech for 10 years. It's full of people who did not vocally support Trump (and may well have voted for Clinton) but who perpetuate sexism and racism and think that they're doing so for valid business reasons ("culture fit"). I know who the enemy is and I know who to hate. It's not the guy in Milwaukee who lost his job and his dignity and can't afford to insure his family and gets socked with an "individual mandate" penalty for it.
- basch 10y ago
  >a lot of admiration for Obama and Clinton, despite their flaws That is a problem. Because despite you overlooking their flaws, the "portions of the country that have been most ravaged by free trade orgies and globalism — Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa — were filled with rage" saw "a protector and beneficiary of all the worst components of status quo elite corruption" and overlooked intolerance and targeted crony capitalist corruption. Solely focusing on “racism/sexism/xenophobia” while ignoring “economic suffering” is what led to this outcome. Cenk Uygur put it succinctly during the primaries: “Instead of looking at it as, ‘Hey, one guy hasn’t taken corrupting money and the other one has,’ you frame it as male vs. female,” Uygur said. “And hence, put me in a position where I’m forced to say, no, I don’t think it would be historic because I think it’s the same old establishment.”