4 ms·

I'm perplexed as to why Thiel backed Trump when Thiel is gay, and Trump/Pence seem to want to roll back a lot of hard fought rights won by the homosexual commun

I'm perplexed as to why Thiel backed Trump when Thiel is gay, and Trump/Pence seem to want to roll back a lot of hard fought rights won by the homosexual community.

beedogs 10y ago
Thiel can go get married in New Zealand if it gets bad enough in America. He simply does not care about the rest of us.
smakrybust 10y ago
I won't claim to know why, but when we discriminate in this country, you probably put race at the top. But we discriminate in this order: 1. Wealth (that is, lack of) 2. Education 3. Race 4. Gender 5. Other stuff (appearance, sexual identity, etc) I doubt a successful homosexual like Thiel feels terribly discriminated against. I'm guessing this because I work with a bunch of black physicians; they say they're all doing just fine.
- monkey88 10y ago
  The URM often say that they are doing to those outside the community. You don't complain, unless you wnat to be branded a problem, a complainer, a whiner.
  - smakrybust 10y ago
    True, but that's true in any organization and it's independent of any social class. Play along or you probably won't be a member much longer.
- id 10y ago
  Ben Carson will also continue to do just fine.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  > I'm guessing this because I work with a bunch of black physicians; they say they're all doing just fine. What they say and what they feel may not be the same thing.
  - smakrybust 10y ago
    Well they "seem" to be doing fine as well, so we're getting into some pretty dark territory (is that racist imagery?) to now imagine that they're suffering immensely inside and just putting on a painful show. One of them just won a "most eligible bachelor" competition in our predominantly-white city last year. Oh and I'm a hispanic physician (yes, we exist!), and I'm also doing great. No, I didn't vote for Trump.
- Lawtonfogle 10y ago
  I have to disagree with the list. How we discriminate can't be put in a list because it is different for different issues. For one example, consider that the legal system discriminate far more on gender than race. In some areas your list is close to accurate (I would definitely put mental health much higher), but in general a list is a poor data structure to represent how discrimination occurs. It also ignores interactions between groups.
  - smakrybust 10y ago
    That's a fair point, and your remark about mental health is true (it might even be number one on this oversimplified list). I wasn't trying to be authoritative on the subject or list, but to present a general idea about who, practically-speaking, feels disenfranchised. Thiel, even if he was a fat, ugly, uneducated, transgendered black person, would still be one of the most advantaged people in the world.
typon 10y ago
Because rich people live a life so different than the average person you cannot possibly guess his motivations.
mattgibson 10y ago
A lot of the problems that an ordinary person would suffer cease to be an issue when you're worth $2.7B. I suspect that for Thiel, the loss of hard fought rights will not impact him very much personally. Marriage for example is not just symbolic, it also confers rights to a partner's pension contributions, their assets if they happen to die intestate etc. Thiel may be able to fill many of these gaps with expensive legal arrangements that others can't afford.
pmorici 10y ago
"Trump/Pence seem to want to roll back a lot of hard fought rights won by the homosexual community" I don't think there is much evidence for that. President Obama publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage when he was running for president in 2008. The only reason it ended up being legalized nationwide was because of a supreme court case brought by a bunch of LGBT Republicans. On that issue Trump has said, "The Supreme Court has issued an opinion on this. Same-sex marriage is an issue that should have been decided by the states." In other words he probably thinks same sex marriage is fine but didn't want to say so because he knows it's a polarizing issue. That's a more progressive position than _Obama_ took in 08.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  I suspect you're right on Trump - he probably doesn't care much about gay marriage either way. There's plenty of evidence Pence will be an issue, though. http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious-freedom/ http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious... http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-pence-record-reproductive-rights-lgbtq-refugees http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-pence-record-reproductiv...
  - pmorici 10y ago
    From the horses mouth... http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-marriage-231310 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-...
  - 551199 10y ago
    And if Hillary would have won there would have been influx of millions of muslims who are real danger to lgbt. Edit: People downvoting you do know muslims do not accept lgbt and are quite hostile against them?
  - pmorici 10y ago
    True, Pence isn't a same-sex marriage supporter but he is also the Vice President. A position often described as having little to no power or authority.
Melk 10y ago
It's easy to want society to collapse when you're not a part of it.
matwood 10y ago
People vote on more than one issue. No candidate is perfect, and it just so happens we ended up with two this time that were both pretty bad. An NPR podcast noted that some polls have found that ~40% of registered democrats polled voted for Trump. For those people at least, renegotiating NAFTA or blocking the TPP was more important than Trumps vulgarities or letting states decide on other social issues. At this point, I would rather to not see anything else about Trump on HN until something actually happens. But here I am, sucked in to comment...
- WalterSear 10y ago
  > An NPR podcast noted that some polls have found that ~40% of registered democrats polled voted for Trump. No it didn't, and they didn't.
  - matwood 10y ago
    http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/10/501613521/an-app-saw-trump-winning-swing-states-when-polls-didnt http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/10/501... Of Brigade's verified voters, 40 percent of registered Democrats pledged to vote for Trump. I guess we can argue about wording or say the data is wrong, but this is what NPR said this morning.
    - WalterSear 10y ago
      >Of Brigade's verified voters Brigade is a billionaire's vanity project. It's userbase isn't representative of anything, and it's not a 'poll'.
551199 10y ago
You do understands that Clintons plan to influx millions of muslims who are against homosexuals and lgbt would be the real danger for them. Trump has been advocate for gays from the 80's and has brought even GOP to support lgbt in this term. Edit: People downvoting you do know muslims do not accept lgbt and are quite hostile against them?
avar 10y ago
[Disclaimer: I didn't vote] Why do you think Trump's particularly anti-gay? Here he is waiving around a rainbow flag (in a positive sense) at a rally just a couple of weeks ago: http://www.advocate.com/2016/10/31/donald-trump-waves-lgbt-rainbow-flag-colorado-rally http://www.advocate.com/2016/10/31/donald-trump-waves-lgbt-r...
- 551199 10y ago
  This is a good example of people believing msm propaganda and not thinking themselves. Trump has been advocate for gays from the 80's and supporting lgbt has been big part of his campaign.
  - zimpenfish 10y ago
    Then why did he pick Pence - a actively virulent homophobe - as his VP?
    - 551199 10y ago
      Why was Hillary going to let millions of muslims in who are against lgbt?
      - zimpenfish 10y ago
        Even if she were, what relevance does that have to whether Trum p is "an advocate for the gays"?
      - patates 10y ago
        Why are you picking on Muslims? Is there any religious group who support or at least are not against LGBTs? I also know a lot of gay Muslims (and Christians. and Jews.) I personally don't like/understand religion, but spreading FUD is something totally different. Most of the religious wars seem to have happened because of people spreading fear, don't you think?
    - jrnichols 10y ago
      i think it's insurance, really. He's a lot safer in the White House with Pence as VP.
nyolfen 10y ago
trump didn't exactly campaign on rolling back gay rights, most americans are pretty solidly in favor of it at this point. as for why -- too early to say, probably.
JohnStrange 10y ago
Just like Trump, he's too rich to care for or being able to understand any average person's concerns and worries about life, and this includes issues that have to do with sexual orientation like anything else. It doesn't even have to be lack of empathy, it's just an complete lack of the experiences that people have in life who have to worry about paychecks, monthly bills, mortgage, insurance and education for the family, healthcare expenditures, etc. And no, no theoretical knowledge or education can replace actual experience, knowing the physics of how bikes work is not the same as knowing how to ride a bike. People like Trump and Thiel are ignorants not in the pejorative but in the literal sense of the word.
melling 10y ago
Peter already explained himself. Try listening to what he said at the convention. He has weighted America's future far more heavily than which bathroom people can use. At the same time, he was the first openly gay person to speak at the RNC. He's helping to roll the Republican party forward socially.

I'm perplexed as to why Thiel backed Trump when Thiel is gay, and Trump/Pence seem to want to roll back a lot of hard fought rights won by the homosexual community.

beedogs 10y ago

Thiel can go get married in New Zealand if it gets bad enough in America. He simply does not care about the rest of us.

smakrybust 10y ago

I won't claim to know why, but when we discriminate in this country, you probably put race at the top. But we discriminate in this order: 1. Wealth (that is, lack of) 2. Education 3. Race 4. Gender 5. Other stuff (appearance, sexual identity, etc) I doubt a successful homosexual like Thiel feels terribly discriminated against. I'm guessing this because I work with a bunch of black physicians; they say they're all doing just fine.

monkey88 10y ago
The URM often say that they are doing to those outside the community. You don't complain, unless you wnat to be branded a problem, a complainer, a whiner.
- smakrybust 10y ago
  True, but that's true in any organization and it's independent of any social class. Play along or you probably won't be a member much longer.
id 10y ago
Ben Carson will also continue to do just fine.
ceejayoz 10y ago
> I'm guessing this because I work with a bunch of black physicians; they say they're all doing just fine. What they say and what they feel may not be the same thing.
- smakrybust 10y ago
  Well they "seem" to be doing fine as well, so we're getting into some pretty dark territory (is that racist imagery?) to now imagine that they're suffering immensely inside and just putting on a painful show. One of them just won a "most eligible bachelor" competition in our predominantly-white city last year. Oh and I'm a hispanic physician (yes, we exist!), and I'm also doing great. No, I didn't vote for Trump.
Lawtonfogle 10y ago
I have to disagree with the list. How we discriminate can't be put in a list because it is different for different issues. For one example, consider that the legal system discriminate far more on gender than race. In some areas your list is close to accurate (I would definitely put mental health much higher), but in general a list is a poor data structure to represent how discrimination occurs. It also ignores interactions between groups.
- smakrybust 10y ago
  That's a fair point, and your remark about mental health is true (it might even be number one on this oversimplified list). I wasn't trying to be authoritative on the subject or list, but to present a general idea about who, practically-speaking, feels disenfranchised. Thiel, even if he was a fat, ugly, uneducated, transgendered black person, would still be one of the most advantaged people in the world.

typon 10y ago

Because rich people live a life so different than the average person you cannot possibly guess his motivations.

mattgibson 10y ago

A lot of the problems that an ordinary person would suffer cease to be an issue when you're worth $2.7B. I suspect that for Thiel, the loss of hard fought rights will not impact him very much personally. Marriage for example is not just symbolic, it also confers rights to a partner's pension contributions, their assets if they happen to die intestate etc. Thiel may be able to fill many of these gaps with expensive legal arrangements that others can't afford.

pmorici 10y ago

"Trump/Pence seem to want to roll back a lot of hard fought rights won by the homosexual community" I don't think there is much evidence for that. President Obama publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage when he was running for president in 2008. The only reason it ended up being legalized nationwide was because of a supreme court case brought by a bunch of LGBT Republicans. On that issue Trump has said, "The Supreme Court has issued an opinion on this. Same-sex marriage is an issue that should have been decided by the states." In other words he probably thinks same sex marriage is fine but didn't want to say so because he knows it's a polarizing issue. That's a more progressive position than _Obama_ took in 08.

ceejayoz 10y ago
I suspect you're right on Trump - he probably doesn't care much about gay marriage either way. There's plenty of evidence Pence will be an issue, though. http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious-freedom/ http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious... http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-pence-record-reproductive-rights-lgbtq-refugees http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-pence-record-reproductiv...
- pmorici 10y ago
  From the horses mouth... http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-marriage-231310 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-...
- 551199 10y ago
  And if Hillary would have won there would have been influx of millions of muslims who are real danger to lgbt. Edit: People downvoting you do know muslims do not accept lgbt and are quite hostile against them?
- pmorici 10y ago
  True, Pence isn't a same-sex marriage supporter but he is also the Vice President. A position often described as having little to no power or authority.

Melk 10y ago

It's easy to want society to collapse when you're not a part of it.

matwood 10y ago

People vote on more than one issue. No candidate is perfect, and it just so happens we ended up with two this time that were both pretty bad. An NPR podcast noted that some polls have found that ~40% of registered democrats polled voted for Trump. For those people at least, renegotiating NAFTA or blocking the TPP was more important than Trumps vulgarities or letting states decide on other social issues. At this point, I would rather to not see anything else about Trump on HN until something actually happens. But here I am, sucked in to comment...

WalterSear 10y ago
> An NPR podcast noted that some polls have found that ~40% of registered democrats polled voted for Trump. No it didn't, and they didn't.
- matwood 10y ago
  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/10/501613521/an-app-saw-trump-winning-swing-states-when-polls-didnt http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/10/501... Of Brigade's verified voters, 40 percent of registered Democrats pledged to vote for Trump. I guess we can argue about wording or say the data is wrong, but this is what NPR said this morning.
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    >Of Brigade's verified voters Brigade is a billionaire's vanity project. It's userbase isn't representative of anything, and it's not a 'poll'.

551199 10y ago

You do understands that Clintons plan to influx millions of muslims who are against homosexuals and lgbt would be the real danger for them. Trump has been advocate for gays from the 80's and has brought even GOP to support lgbt in this term. Edit: People downvoting you do know muslims do not accept lgbt and are quite hostile against them?

avar 10y ago

[Disclaimer: I didn't vote] Why do you think Trump's particularly anti-gay? Here he is waiving around a rainbow flag (in a positive sense) at a rally just a couple of weeks ago: http://www.advocate.com/2016/10/31/donald-trump-waves-lgbt-rainbow-flag-colorado-rally http://www.advocate.com/2016/10/31/donald-trump-waves-lgbt-r...

551199 10y ago
This is a good example of people believing msm propaganda and not thinking themselves. Trump has been advocate for gays from the 80's and supporting lgbt has been big part of his campaign.
- zimpenfish 10y ago
  Then why did he pick Pence - a actively virulent homophobe - as his VP?
  - 551199 10y ago
    Why was Hillary going to let millions of muslims in who are against lgbt?
    - zimpenfish 10y ago
      Even if she were, what relevance does that have to whether Trum p is "an advocate for the gays"?
    - patates 10y ago
      Why are you picking on Muslims? Is there any religious group who support or at least are not against LGBTs? I also know a lot of gay Muslims (and Christians. and Jews.) I personally don't like/understand religion, but spreading FUD is something totally different. Most of the religious wars seem to have happened because of people spreading fear, don't you think?
  - jrnichols 10y ago
    i think it's insurance, really. He's a lot safer in the White House with Pence as VP.

nyolfen 10y ago

trump didn't exactly campaign on rolling back gay rights, most americans are pretty solidly in favor of it at this point. as for why -- too early to say, probably.

JohnStrange 10y ago

Just like Trump, he's too rich to care for or being able to understand any average person's concerns and worries about life, and this includes issues that have to do with sexual orientation like anything else. It doesn't even have to be lack of empathy, it's just an complete lack of the experiences that people have in life who have to worry about paychecks, monthly bills, mortgage, insurance and education for the family, healthcare expenditures, etc. And no, no theoretical knowledge or education can replace actual experience, knowing the physics of how bikes work is not the same as knowing how to ride a bike. People like Trump and Thiel are ignorants not in the pejorative but in the literal sense of the word.

melling 10y ago

Peter already explained himself. Try listening to what he said at the convention. He has weighted America's future far more heavily than which bathroom people can use. At the same time, he was the first openly gay person to speak at the RNC. He's helping to roll the Republican party forward socially.