5 ms·

Edit 2: Don't understand the down votes. Some explanation will help.

BipolarElsa 10y ago
HN does not like talk of ideology. My best guess.
noir_lord 10y ago
Honestly? You are promoting a policy of the traditional left (I say traditional left because the overton window has moved) on a forum that has a significant number (if not outright majority) of right/libertarian leaning people. In theory that shouldn't get you a downvote but it does, much like reddit where you aren't supposed to get downvoted for an on topic post but you do if people disagree with you. There has been a lot of talk recently of self re-enforcing echo chambers, ironically enough on here which is one of them. Bias exists in all communities with no exceptions as far as I can tell. For what it's worth I was arguing that programmers need to either unionise or have a professional chartered body (like Accountants, Lawyers and Engineers) decades ago, the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Getting programmers to agree what that would look like though would be a massive exercise in "cat hearding". Unions aren't perfect but the abscence of Unions isn't perfect either, few things are and the question has to be "broadly, what is better for most people" and I think that is either really strong labour laws or unionisation. Historically unionisation has occurred most when there is an abscence of strong labour laws (in the US and the UK this was certainly true, the reason a 40 hour work week is considered "standard" is because of unions (and Henry T Ford arguably)).
- moyta 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm finding it really quite interesting to watch my total karma vary by 5 to 10 points as people read my comments. Maybe I should graph it on munin, would be interesting. In regards to a union, perhaps that or a guild would be ideal, similar to the other major unions in the US. Strong labor laws generally do not get passed in a vacuum, often its at the behest of the union that good labor laws get passed to protect workers. I'm a very pro-Union person myself, I've seen & experienced what an employer with total power and a divided workforce can do, and you are essentially powerless. The true power of a union is the ability to organize with your coworkers to walk out and picket your employer to fight for better working conditions & proper pay, which is a powerful tool to level the playing field. Otherwise, you are a replaceable cog in the machine to your employer, since they can generally handle a fair amount of churn, just not a work stoppage.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    You know you got some seriously good thought when your karma starts to swing like that. The opposite is, all of my posts with more than 30 points are stupidly obvious stuff that nobody would miss, but were slightly funny on the context.
    - moyta 10y ago
      Sure, what I write may be good, but it is polarizing. Its much easier to get karma writing the obvious answer that OP may not know as compared to writing about controversial things like worker protections & how their destruction hurts everyone, or how Soylent is unhealthy and we know very little about nutrition overall, let alone anywhere near enough to try to engineer a product to replace food entirely.
- drieddust 10y ago
  Probably I come across like that but I am not a far left proponent. My point is that power owners have cherry picked Adam Smith's Capitalist theory and completed moulded it to their own benefit. safeguards are completely ignored in the name of free market. Yet same they do not feel any shame accepting government grants when going gets tough. > Historically unionisation has occurred most when there is an abscence of strong labour laws Unions generally become power centers in themselves so only strong labour law is the solution in my opinion.

HN does not like talk of ideology. My best guess.

Honestly? You are promoting a policy of the traditional left (I say traditional left because the overton window has moved) on a forum that has a significant number (if not outright majority) of right/libertarian leaning people. In theory that shouldn't get you a downvote but it does, much like reddit where you aren't supposed to get downvoted for an on topic post but you do if people disagree with you. There has been a lot of talk recently of self re-enforcing echo chambers, ironically enough on here which is one of them. Bias exists in all communities with no exceptions as far as I can tell. For what it's worth I was arguing that programmers need to either unionise or have a professional chartered body (like Accountants, Lawyers and Engineers) decades ago, the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Getting programmers to agree what that would look like though would be a massive exercise in "cat hearding". Unions aren't perfect but the abscence of Unions isn't perfect either, few things are and the question has to be "broadly, what is better for most people" and I think that is either really strong labour laws or unionisation. Historically unionisation has occurred most when there is an abscence of strong labour laws (in the US and the UK this was certainly true, the reason a 40 hour work week is considered "standard" is because of unions (and Henry T Ford arguably)).

moyta 10y ago
Yeah, I'm finding it really quite interesting to watch my total karma vary by 5 to 10 points as people read my comments. Maybe I should graph it on munin, would be interesting. In regards to a union, perhaps that or a guild would be ideal, similar to the other major unions in the US. Strong labor laws generally do not get passed in a vacuum, often its at the behest of the union that good labor laws get passed to protect workers. I'm a very pro-Union person myself, I've seen & experienced what an employer with total power and a divided workforce can do, and you are essentially powerless. The true power of a union is the ability to organize with your coworkers to walk out and picket your employer to fight for better working conditions & proper pay, which is a powerful tool to level the playing field. Otherwise, you are a replaceable cog in the machine to your employer, since they can generally handle a fair amount of churn, just not a work stoppage.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  You know you got some seriously good thought when your karma starts to swing like that. The opposite is, all of my posts with more than 30 points are stupidly obvious stuff that nobody would miss, but were slightly funny on the context.
  - moyta 10y ago
    Sure, what I write may be good, but it is polarizing. Its much easier to get karma writing the obvious answer that OP may not know as compared to writing about controversial things like worker protections & how their destruction hurts everyone, or how Soylent is unhealthy and we know very little about nutrition overall, let alone anywhere near enough to try to engineer a product to replace food entirely.
drieddust 10y ago
Probably I come across like that but I am not a far left proponent. My point is that power owners have cherry picked Adam Smith's Capitalist theory and completed moulded it to their own benefit. safeguards are completely ignored in the name of free market. Yet same they do not feel any shame accepting government grants when going gets tough. > Historically unionisation has occurred most when there is an abscence of strong labour laws Unions generally become power centers in themselves so only strong labour law is the solution in my opinion.