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California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

25 points by the_decider 10y ago

asurachadtrot 10y ago
I support #Calexit and I hope this will not just be saying and playing. Trump is a successful businessman and he knows strategy very well. He must already have plans for those protestors, so for those who are really serious about this issue, we should not give in easily.
- vishnubansal 10y ago
  Don't want to sound like an extremist, but I do support #Calexit. The economic impact of California is tremendous not only for US but for the whole world, therefore, it's a great bargaining power against Trump.
  - willary 10y ago
    How this not extremist, your protesting some hypothetical scenario you have on your mind? There is nothing concrete to protest. Liberals are protesting a Democrat who won running as a Republican, it's hard to understand why that upsets liberals. He's for gay marriage. He's for abortion, he more socially liberal than clinton and less pro war than clinton
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- empath75 10y ago
  I don't even live in California and I support Calexit. I'd also support the entire northeast from Virginia to Maine seceding. Though I guess PA wouldn't be on board with that any more.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  If you are an American and a true patriot you cannot support Calexit. We need everyone in this together for the future political battles to come. Isolation will not help anyone.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Since when is "true patriot" only something that can apply to the USA?
    - tcoppi 10y ago
      I said if you are an American and a true patriot. Of course you can be a patriot of another country.
joshlittle 10y ago
This would probably kick off a trend if it were successful here. None of the other blue states would be satisfied with the loss of our progressive electoral college voting bloc. It'd put Republicans in the awkward position of denouncing the progressive left's sudden support of states' rights. California, on the other hand, would continue to be a terrific place to live. Preliminarily I would consider supporting #Calexit
- mc32 10y ago
  Yeah, till the other states take the water rights away. Or the conservative sierras secede in turn and then you have no snowmelt either. But really, this is ill-advised. It's the same thing in Alaska when they don't like the winner -they whine. People don't realize that as LatAm immigrants assimilate into the fabric and Americanize, they tend to drift conservative, so be careful what you wish for. Also, remember, once California's electoral college is disbanded, goodbye democrats for what, 40, 50 years in the rest of the states? For this reason democrats in the other states would be against it --they'd lose their California democratic bank (monetarily, electorally and congressionally)
  - joshlittle 10y ago
    Depending on the outcome, I think that we'd be able to figure some solution that works for what would become the nation of California (based on what land actually CalExits.) Worst case scenario - either de-salt the water in the ocean, or buy it. If the United States can sell electricity with Mexico given our contentious at times relationship, I'm sure we could figure it out. Totally agree with you - in principle it would be difficult, messy, and would very much be a disruptive conversation to have with America. Then again, even the Trump campaign expected they would be unsuccessful in the end.
- nitwit005 10y ago
  The reason we consistently end up with a roughly equal two party split is because the need to get 51% of the vote. The Democrats would just adjust the party platform and pull some dis-satisfied portion(s) of the Republican party in until the vote was roughly 50-50 again.
kinghajj 10y ago
States cannot legally secede unilaterally, and there's a no chance in hell Congress would approve. Unless you're willing to form a militia against the US Army that surely would be sent in--which, ironically for California, is more difficult because of the stricter gun control. (Reason had a great headline yesterday--something like, "Trump's election makes liberals realize appeal of limited government.")
- fixxer 10y ago
  What about Florida? Can we dump Florida? ;)
  - reddytowns 10y ago
    Florida is leaving us anyway. In 2030, the average IQ of what used to be Florida is bound to increase due to all the dolphins and whales swimming about.
- nitwit005 10y ago
  I'm not sure the law matters all that much. I'm a bit doubtful the modern day US military would be genuinely willing to use violence to retain a state that tried to leave peacefully and democratically. Also, California already has a militia. We just call it the "National Guard" these days.
  - relics443 10y ago
    Except the National Guard could be called into federal duty by the president, which would most certainly happen in such a scenario. Additionally, their equipment is federal property, and they have to recompense the federal army for certain fungible items they use.
- Hyperborian 10y ago
  On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and such. California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union, and there are native Californians (who, if they backed California, could cause many problems) in key positions throughout the rest of the military as well. Form a militia? That's ridiculous. California would be a global military power right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
I was going to say, this is crazy it will never happen. Like the UK leaving the EU, the cubs winning the World Series, or Trump getting elected, this will never happen either. Then I realized this is the year that anything could happen so...
fixxer 10y ago
The same effect could be gotten with less federal government and massive expansion of states rights... Irony.
willary 10y ago
Lol given the current California budget situation, would not recommend.
- CalChris 10y ago
  California has a pretty good budget situation, not perfect but much better. Indeed we have a surplus. The problem with CA and with most other states is long term public employee retirement costs. The citizens raised taxes and gave Brown Democratic supermajorities which shut down Republican budget brinksmanship. Brown has righted the ship that Schwarzenegger left but medium term will require restructuring those retirement commitments. Schwarzenegger was pretty much the same as Gray Davis. Not the worst, not the best but unwilling to do the really hard budget work. Jerry Brown lives to work.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Interesting. Brexit or Texit are bigoted, racist, xenophobic concepts but Calexit is moral, liberal and progressive?
- birken 10y ago
  Quite the false equivalency. There have been clear situations where a territory has declared independence for reasons that were somewhat bigoted, racist and xenophobic (the confederacy), and many instances where a territory has declared independence for reasons that were not primarly bigoted, racist and xenophobic (probably most times, including the USA itself). Though of course all of these situations are much more complicated than those descriptors. I'm not suggesting Calexit is a good idea at all, but suggesting an idea is good or not because there is some imagined liberal hypocrisy is not fair. Evaluate the idea on its merits.
mc32 10y ago
California is not a monolith --like Hispanics are not a monolithic bloc (~30% voted republican). The central valley and the sierras are conservative and they have the water. Water from the Colorado? Goodbye! Welcome to the waterless republic of coastal California right next to the state of inland California with all the water.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Also please don't flag this article. I just noticed that an article about Grubhub CEO telling Trump supporter employees to resign has been flagged. I hope there is no systematic trend in this sort of flagging.
- rz2k 10y ago
  There are a lot of people who don't want to have to have the argument about why this sort of cute posturing, much like talking about the popular vote count[1] undermines the serious work they think needs to be done. It fits a convenient narrative for a moment--we'll show them! However it is not a movement, and is an expression of despair by a small number rather than an actual desire to secede. The temporary defeatist attitude, too, ends up getting quoted, long after people have figured out to move on productively. To a lesser extent I think a focus on choosing DNC scapegoats sets back the important self examination that needs to be accomplished by people who were certain that the policy directions they were pursuing would also be beneficial to the people who voted for Trump. Was it a message delivery problem, a failure to understand a broader spectrum of grievances than economic pressures alone? [1] It doesn't matter whether a shift away from electoral college would be better in the context of Nov 8, 2016, because the well known parameters of the electoral college determined voters' participation rates and the candidates' strategies.
relics443 10y ago
Few questions: 1. Lots of talk about California and its economy. Is a possible reason it has such a strong economy because it's a part of the USA? Would it continue to have a strong economy as its own nation state? 2. How would they defend themselves military? Texas seems to have a lot more military inclined folk than California. What would they do without the support of the US Army? 3. If they put it to a vote, they need 2/3 yes to pass. The Democrats didn't have that many votes for Hillary in the presidential election. What makes anyone think that all Democrats + some Republicans would be OK with this? Forget about the rest of the states. 4. Did this joker really suggest that "small states with little diversity shouldn't determine Presidency"? Are you serious. Get a grip!
- flukus 10y ago
  For number 2, they wouldn't need a strong military, they've got friends on all sides. The US military goes well beyond what's needed to protect itself. For 3, part of that is because of how the electoral college works, a lot of democratic voter probably didn't vote. Of course that goes both ways, who knows what the real numbers are.
  - relics443 10y ago
    I'd think the US would not be California's greatest friend if this were to happen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ According to data from Google and Wikipedia, 2.5 million registered democrats didn't vote Democrat and 2 million Republicans didn't vote Republican. Non voters probably don't factor in. I'd think that non voters would be less likely to support secession.
- mc32 10y ago
  I'll tell you what! Democrats, that's right Democrats in other states, in the US Capitol would not allow it. There would go a balanced Democracy in the US for decades to come. There would be no California delegation to counter the 2/3 republicans in a new congress and they would lose their financial benefactors from the state. No way. This is all posturing, whining and petulance.
CalChris 10y ago
I'm just tired of California paying for moocher Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky, ...
carsongross 10y ago
The importance here is not the possibility of immediate secession: there is almost zero chance of that. The importance is that it is getting the left to take secession seriously as a concept. Eventually we will need to separate out different sovereignties if we all wish to live in peace, in the types of communities we want. Peaceful secessionism is the moral way forward, but it will take many decades for it to work it's way into everyones brain as a legitimate possibility.
Upvoter33 10y ago
This is stupid for so many reasons, and un-American. I only wonder what Lincoln would say, who gave his life to preserve the Union and American Experiment.
chinese_donald 10y ago
Before the election (when all the Democrats thought they would be in control): We need to accept the election results. Protesting the decision hurts our democracy. After they lose: Massive protests and a desire to secede from the the US. If Republicans would have protested or suggested a secession after a Hillary win, they would be called 'sexist'. Democrats are sore losers. Republicans endured 8 years of Obama and never protested like this. Instead of shunning half the country, figure out why you lost.
- flukus 10y ago
  Remember how much condemnation Trump got for saying he might not accept the election result?
piotrjurkiewicz 10y ago
Hilarious! Most of you (HN commentators) were bashing Britons when they decided to leave the EU (which policies they don't like), calling them backwards, xenophobic, etc. And now you want to do the same. And perceive it as 'progressive'. Moreover: 1. EU had been imposing unpopular polices over Britons for years. Trump administration hasn't introduced any policy yet, moreover, it hasn't formed yet. 2. Trump and Pence were _elected_ in a direct democratic elections. European Commission president and all commissioners are being _appointed_ by ruling elites. In future political science textbooks this will serve as a prominent example of the phenomenon named 'liberal hypocrisy'.
- Upvoter33 10y ago
  As a "liberal", and one (from the sounds of it) who would likely disagree with many of your political stances, I am in complete agreement with what you have said here.
th0br0 10y ago
Quite eerie, seeing these parallels to Designated Survivor.

25 points by the_decider 10y ago

I support #Calexit and I hope this will not just be saying and playing. Trump is a successful businessman and he knows strategy very well. He must already have plans for those protestors, so for those who are really serious about this issue, we should not give in easily.

vishnubansal 10y ago
Don't want to sound like an extremist, but I do support #Calexit. The economic impact of California is tremendous not only for US but for the whole world, therefore, it's a great bargaining power against Trump.
- willary 10y ago
  How this not extremist, your protesting some hypothetical scenario you have on your mind? There is nothing concrete to protest. Liberals are protesting a Democrat who won running as a Republican, it's hard to understand why that upsets liberals. He's for gay marriage. He's for abortion, he more socially liberal than clinton and less pro war than clinton
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
empath75 10y ago
I don't even live in California and I support Calexit. I'd also support the entire northeast from Virginia to Maine seceding. Though I guess PA wouldn't be on board with that any more.
tcoppi 10y ago
If you are an American and a true patriot you cannot support Calexit. We need everyone in this together for the future political battles to come. Isolation will not help anyone.
- flukus 10y ago
  Since when is "true patriot" only something that can apply to the USA?
  - tcoppi 10y ago
    I said if you are an American and a true patriot. Of course you can be a patriot of another country.

joshlittle 10y ago

This would probably kick off a trend if it were successful here. None of the other blue states would be satisfied with the loss of our progressive electoral college voting bloc. It'd put Republicans in the awkward position of denouncing the progressive left's sudden support of states' rights. California, on the other hand, would continue to be a terrific place to live. Preliminarily I would consider supporting #Calexit

mc32 10y ago
Yeah, till the other states take the water rights away. Or the conservative sierras secede in turn and then you have no snowmelt either. But really, this is ill-advised. It's the same thing in Alaska when they don't like the winner -they whine. People don't realize that as LatAm immigrants assimilate into the fabric and Americanize, they tend to drift conservative, so be careful what you wish for. Also, remember, once California's electoral college is disbanded, goodbye democrats for what, 40, 50 years in the rest of the states? For this reason democrats in the other states would be against it --they'd lose their California democratic bank (monetarily, electorally and congressionally)
- joshlittle 10y ago
  Depending on the outcome, I think that we'd be able to figure some solution that works for what would become the nation of California (based on what land actually CalExits.) Worst case scenario - either de-salt the water in the ocean, or buy it. If the United States can sell electricity with Mexico given our contentious at times relationship, I'm sure we could figure it out. Totally agree with you - in principle it would be difficult, messy, and would very much be a disruptive conversation to have with America. Then again, even the Trump campaign expected they would be unsuccessful in the end.
nitwit005 10y ago
The reason we consistently end up with a roughly equal two party split is because the need to get 51% of the vote. The Democrats would just adjust the party platform and pull some dis-satisfied portion(s) of the Republican party in until the vote was roughly 50-50 again.

kinghajj 10y ago

States cannot legally secede unilaterally, and there's a no chance in hell Congress would approve. Unless you're willing to form a militia against the US Army that surely would be sent in--which, ironically for California, is more difficult because of the stricter gun control. (Reason had a great headline yesterday--something like, "Trump's election makes liberals realize appeal of limited government.")

fixxer 10y ago
What about Florida? Can we dump Florida? ;)
- reddytowns 10y ago
  Florida is leaving us anyway. In 2030, the average IQ of what used to be Florida is bound to increase due to all the dolphins and whales swimming about.
nitwit005 10y ago
I'm not sure the law matters all that much. I'm a bit doubtful the modern day US military would be genuinely willing to use violence to retain a state that tried to leave peacefully and democratically. Also, California already has a militia. We just call it the "National Guard" these days.
- relics443 10y ago
  Except the National Guard could be called into federal duty by the president, which would most certainly happen in such a scenario. Additionally, their equipment is federal property, and they have to recompense the federal army for certain fungible items they use.
Hyperborian 10y ago
On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and such. California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union, and there are native Californians (who, if they backed California, could cause many problems) in key positions throughout the rest of the military as well. Form a militia? That's ridiculous. California would be a global military power right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

I was going to say, this is crazy it will never happen. Like the UK leaving the EU, the cubs winning the World Series, or Trump getting elected, this will never happen either. Then I realized this is the year that anything could happen so...

fixxer 10y ago

The same effect could be gotten with less federal government and massive expansion of states rights... Irony.

willary 10y ago

Lol given the current California budget situation, would not recommend.

CalChris 10y ago
California has a pretty good budget situation, not perfect but much better. Indeed we have a surplus. The problem with CA and with most other states is long term public employee retirement costs. The citizens raised taxes and gave Brown Democratic supermajorities which shut down Republican budget brinksmanship. Brown has righted the ship that Schwarzenegger left but medium term will require restructuring those retirement commitments. Schwarzenegger was pretty much the same as Gray Davis. Not the worst, not the best but unwilling to do the really hard budget work. Jerry Brown lives to work.

maverick_iceman 10y ago

Interesting. Brexit or Texit are bigoted, racist, xenophobic concepts but Calexit is moral, liberal and progressive?

birken 10y ago
Quite the false equivalency. There have been clear situations where a territory has declared independence for reasons that were somewhat bigoted, racist and xenophobic (the confederacy), and many instances where a territory has declared independence for reasons that were not primarly bigoted, racist and xenophobic (probably most times, including the USA itself). Though of course all of these situations are much more complicated than those descriptors. I'm not suggesting Calexit is a good idea at all, but suggesting an idea is good or not because there is some imagined liberal hypocrisy is not fair. Evaluate the idea on its merits.

mc32 10y ago

California is not a monolith --like Hispanics are not a monolithic bloc (~30% voted republican). The central valley and the sierras are conservative and they have the water. Water from the Colorado? Goodbye! Welcome to the waterless republic of coastal California right next to the state of inland California with all the water.

maverick_iceman 10y ago

Also please don't flag this article. I just noticed that an article about Grubhub CEO telling Trump supporter employees to resign has been flagged. I hope there is no systematic trend in this sort of flagging.

rz2k 10y ago
There are a lot of people who don't want to have to have the argument about why this sort of cute posturing, much like talking about the popular vote count[1] undermines the serious work they think needs to be done. It fits a convenient narrative for a moment--we'll show them! However it is not a movement, and is an expression of despair by a small number rather than an actual desire to secede. The temporary defeatist attitude, too, ends up getting quoted, long after people have figured out to move on productively. To a lesser extent I think a focus on choosing DNC scapegoats sets back the important self examination that needs to be accomplished by people who were certain that the policy directions they were pursuing would also be beneficial to the people who voted for Trump. Was it a message delivery problem, a failure to understand a broader spectrum of grievances than economic pressures alone? [1] It doesn't matter whether a shift away from electoral college would be better in the context of Nov 8, 2016, because the well known parameters of the electoral college determined voters' participation rates and the candidates' strategies.

relics443 10y ago

Few questions: 1. Lots of talk about California and its economy. Is a possible reason it has such a strong economy because it's a part of the USA? Would it continue to have a strong economy as its own nation state? 2. How would they defend themselves military? Texas seems to have a lot more military inclined folk than California. What would they do without the support of the US Army? 3. If they put it to a vote, they need 2/3 yes to pass. The Democrats didn't have that many votes for Hillary in the presidential election. What makes anyone think that all Democrats + some Republicans would be OK with this? Forget about the rest of the states. 4. Did this joker really suggest that "small states with little diversity shouldn't determine Presidency"? Are you serious. Get a grip!

flukus 10y ago
For number 2, they wouldn't need a strong military, they've got friends on all sides. The US military goes well beyond what's needed to protect itself. For 3, part of that is because of how the electoral college works, a lot of democratic voter probably didn't vote. Of course that goes both ways, who knows what the real numbers are.
- relics443 10y ago
  I'd think the US would not be California's greatest friend if this were to happen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ According to data from Google and Wikipedia, 2.5 million registered democrats didn't vote Democrat and 2 million Republicans didn't vote Republican. Non voters probably don't factor in. I'd think that non voters would be less likely to support secession.
mc32 10y ago
I'll tell you what! Democrats, that's right Democrats in other states, in the US Capitol would not allow it. There would go a balanced Democracy in the US for decades to come. There would be no California delegation to counter the 2/3 republicans in a new congress and they would lose their financial benefactors from the state. No way. This is all posturing, whining and petulance.

CalChris 10y ago

I'm just tired of California paying for moocher Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky, ...

carsongross 10y ago

The importance here is not the possibility of immediate secession: there is almost zero chance of that. The importance is that it is getting the left to take secession seriously as a concept. Eventually we will need to separate out different sovereignties if we all wish to live in peace, in the types of communities we want. Peaceful secessionism is the moral way forward, but it will take many decades for it to work it's way into everyones brain as a legitimate possibility.

Upvoter33 10y ago

This is stupid for so many reasons, and un-American. I only wonder what Lincoln would say, who gave his life to preserve the Union and American Experiment.

chinese_donald 10y ago

Before the election (when all the Democrats thought they would be in control): We need to accept the election results. Protesting the decision hurts our democracy. After they lose: Massive protests and a desire to secede from the the US. If Republicans would have protested or suggested a secession after a Hillary win, they would be called 'sexist'. Democrats are sore losers. Republicans endured 8 years of Obama and never protested like this. Instead of shunning half the country, figure out why you lost.

flukus 10y ago
Remember how much condemnation Trump got for saying he might not accept the election result?

piotrjurkiewicz 10y ago

Hilarious! Most of you (HN commentators) were bashing Britons when they decided to leave the EU (which policies they don't like), calling them backwards, xenophobic, etc. And now you want to do the same. And perceive it as 'progressive'. Moreover: 1. EU had been imposing unpopular polices over Britons for years. Trump administration hasn't introduced any policy yet, moreover, it hasn't formed yet. 2. Trump and Pence were _elected_ in a direct democratic elections. European Commission president and all commissioners are being _appointed_ by ruling elites. In future political science textbooks this will serve as a prominent example of the phenomenon named 'liberal hypocrisy'.

Upvoter33 10y ago
As a "liberal", and one (from the sounds of it) who would likely disagree with many of your political stances, I am in complete agreement with what you have said here.

th0br0 10y ago

Quite eerie, seeing these parallels to Designated Survivor.