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While Macs have fantastic build quality, there are now premium-level PCs that are catching up to it. The new EliteBook Folio is a Core M-powered, Thunderbolt-co

While Macs have fantastic build quality, there are now premium-level PCs that are catching up to it. The new EliteBook Folio is a Core M-powered, Thunderbolt-containing replacement for the 12" MacBook (not Pro); the Razer series appear to be built just as well as Macs from my time with them hands-on as well. Personally, I don't care so much about "build quality" in terms of materials used. If the hardware works I'm happy, and the Thinkpad is fine to me.

givinguflac 10y ago
It may be fine, but the disk speeds on the latest Macs are amazing. There is no laptop that matches that I'm aware of.
- micaksica 10y ago
  Assuming you are using Linux and you have gobs of RAM, the 15-20% difference you will see between an mSATA SSD and NVMe is negligible for most common workloads/applications, as you will be likely pulling things from the RAM cache. The Linux box I'm writing this on only has 8 GB RAM and my whole system is only using 1.1G, leaving 6+ GB RAM as a RAM cache for read files. On 16 GB systems it's even better. For more info: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/play.html http://www.linuxatemyram.com/play.html
- dom0 10y ago
  Unless I'm missing something: Huh? Apple is just using regular NVMe/M.2 SSDs, nothing special about them. Lots of laptops have the option for M.2 NVMe SSDs, and most newer desktop motherboards have the slot for it.
  - wtallis 10y ago
    A lot of laptops that advertise NVMe SSDs are using inferior TLC-based or non-Samsung SSDs to check that box. Apple's not alone at the top (especially when aftermarket upgrades are taken into account), but they have been pretty good about using the fastest PCIe SSD that money could buy at the time of release.
    - dom0 10y ago
      True, but I don't think that's common near the price point of Apple hardware. It's also not uncommon in the "lower ranks". I just bought a 800 € ultrabook with a 256 GB Samsung PM961 SSD (NVMe, 2.8 / 1.1 GB/s) and the Skylake i7 for example.
      - spronkey 10y ago
        Also, don't forget that one can buy a Samsung 960 Pro in a machine that comes with a cheaper SSD but uses a standard M.2 NVMe slot, and ditch the original SSD, for cheaper than any of Apple's capacity upgrades.
      - wtallis 10y ago
        The Samsung PM961 is not top of the line. It's one of the more recent TLC-based alternatives that shares a controller with the top of the line products, but it's inherently slower and less power efficient.
  - bluedino 10y ago
    The latest MBP leapfrogged the rest of the market again
    - dom0 10y ago
      Specs seem to be 3.1 GB/s read and 2.1 GB/s write speed. While that's faster than most M.2 SSDs, equally-or-better specced SSDs are already on the market, eg. Samsung 960 Pro (3.5 / 2.1 GB/s).
      - Tinyyy 10y ago
        It's kinda disingenuous to say that the 960 Pro is already on the market when it's not for sale yet.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - spronkey 10y ago
    Just as a sticking point, Apple's SSDs are not, and have never been, regular NVMe or M.2. They have always used their own stupid custom proprietary connector, despite basically implementing most of the relevant standard (NVMe/PCIe/SATA).
- jonknee 10y ago
  Umm, they're using PCIe SSDs so you can just go get another laptop with one. Like this ASUS: http://amzn.to/2eGg2KM http://amzn.to/2eGg2KM > 512GB SSD with transfer speeds of 1400MB/s and 16GB DDR4 RAM
rayiner 10y ago
There are some competitors in the 12-13" range. Nothing that matches it in battery life though: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/11/review-cheapest-2016-macbook-pro-is-good-but-its-missing-all-the-cool-stuff/4 http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/11/review-cheapest-2016-ma.... And there is no competition for the 15" that doesn't have serious flaws (HiDPI display or 10+ hours battery life, but not both).
mi100hael 10y ago
The hardest part for me was finding a 15" PC laptop without the retarded number pad. I'm quite happy with my Dell M5510, but it was basically the only alternative to a MBP.
- micaksica 10y ago
  Yes, this drives me insane too, and is the thing that I hate about the "workstation class" devices. I don't use the number pad and I don't want it, thank you. It trips me up whenever I have to use one and I have to offset my hands from the display.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    I would have really loved one when I was doing a lot of data entry in a previous job. Instead I just got a USB keyboard with a number pad, I understand that my niche desires don't necessarily make for a mass-market desirable device.
    - wl 10y ago
      Even as a frequent user of the numpad, I'd rather carry a USB numpad around than deal with the asymmetry caused by putting one in a laptop.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      A laptop isn't a suitable tool for frequent data entry. (By regulation, in some countries, like the UK)
- kyriakos 10y ago
  There's people like me who want the number pad. Also I can't live without separate home & end keys.
  - mi100hael 10y ago
    I have no problem with offering the numpad as an option for users who do a lot of numerical entry. I just don't want the damn thing forced on me.

givinguflac 10y ago

It may be fine, but the disk speeds on the latest Macs are amazing. There is no laptop that matches that I'm aware of.

micaksica 10y ago
Assuming you are using Linux and you have gobs of RAM, the 15-20% difference you will see between an mSATA SSD and NVMe is negligible for most common workloads/applications, as you will be likely pulling things from the RAM cache. The Linux box I'm writing this on only has 8 GB RAM and my whole system is only using 1.1G, leaving 6+ GB RAM as a RAM cache for read files. On 16 GB systems it's even better. For more info: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/play.html http://www.linuxatemyram.com/play.html
dom0 10y ago
Unless I'm missing something: Huh? Apple is just using regular NVMe/M.2 SSDs, nothing special about them. Lots of laptops have the option for M.2 NVMe SSDs, and most newer desktop motherboards have the slot for it.
- wtallis 10y ago
  A lot of laptops that advertise NVMe SSDs are using inferior TLC-based or non-Samsung SSDs to check that box. Apple's not alone at the top (especially when aftermarket upgrades are taken into account), but they have been pretty good about using the fastest PCIe SSD that money could buy at the time of release.
  - dom0 10y ago
    True, but I don't think that's common near the price point of Apple hardware. It's also not uncommon in the "lower ranks". I just bought a 800 € ultrabook with a 256 GB Samsung PM961 SSD (NVMe, 2.8 / 1.1 GB/s) and the Skylake i7 for example.
    - spronkey 10y ago
      Also, don't forget that one can buy a Samsung 960 Pro in a machine that comes with a cheaper SSD but uses a standard M.2 NVMe slot, and ditch the original SSD, for cheaper than any of Apple's capacity upgrades.
    - wtallis 10y ago
      The Samsung PM961 is not top of the line. It's one of the more recent TLC-based alternatives that shares a controller with the top of the line products, but it's inherently slower and less power efficient.
- bluedino 10y ago
  The latest MBP leapfrogged the rest of the market again
  - dom0 10y ago
    Specs seem to be 3.1 GB/s read and 2.1 GB/s write speed. While that's faster than most M.2 SSDs, equally-or-better specced SSDs are already on the market, eg. Samsung 960 Pro (3.5 / 2.1 GB/s).
    - Tinyyy 10y ago
      It's kinda disingenuous to say that the 960 Pro is already on the market when it's not for sale yet.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- spronkey 10y ago
  Just as a sticking point, Apple's SSDs are not, and have never been, regular NVMe or M.2. They have always used their own stupid custom proprietary connector, despite basically implementing most of the relevant standard (NVMe/PCIe/SATA).
jonknee 10y ago
Umm, they're using PCIe SSDs so you can just go get another laptop with one. Like this ASUS: http://amzn.to/2eGg2KM http://amzn.to/2eGg2KM > 512GB SSD with transfer speeds of 1400MB/s and 16GB DDR4 RAM

rayiner 10y ago

There are some competitors in the 12-13" range. Nothing that matches it in battery life though: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/11/review-cheapest-2016-macbook-pro-is-good-but-its-missing-all-the-cool-stuff/4 http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/11/review-cheapest-2016-ma.... And there is no competition for the 15" that doesn't have serious flaws (HiDPI display or 10+ hours battery life, but not both).

mi100hael 10y ago

The hardest part for me was finding a 15" PC laptop without the retarded number pad. I'm quite happy with my Dell M5510, but it was basically the only alternative to a MBP.

micaksica 10y ago
Yes, this drives me insane too, and is the thing that I hate about the "workstation class" devices. I don't use the number pad and I don't want it, thank you. It trips me up whenever I have to use one and I have to offset my hands from the display.
- freehunter 10y ago
  I would have really loved one when I was doing a lot of data entry in a previous job. Instead I just got a USB keyboard with a number pad, I understand that my niche desires don't necessarily make for a mass-market desirable device.
  - wl 10y ago
    Even as a frequent user of the numpad, I'd rather carry a USB numpad around than deal with the asymmetry caused by putting one in a laptop.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    A laptop isn't a suitable tool for frequent data entry. (By regulation, in some countries, like the UK)
kyriakos 10y ago
There's people like me who want the number pad. Also I can't live without separate home & end keys.
- mi100hael 10y ago
  I have no problem with offering the numpad as an option for users who do a lot of numerical entry. I just don't want the damn thing forced on me.