8 ms·

People are buying more trucks and SUVs and fewer small cars? I mean, I get that people are climate change deniers, but there is no need to be rude about it.

dugditches 10y ago
Yes. The price of gasoline at the pumps has gone down due to the dip in Oil Markets. So people were drawn back to SUVs and Trucks. I don't many give much thought to Climate Change. Lots of people drive Trucks with Crewcabs as a social symbol rather than a work vehicle. And could easily get by with a Car. There's a certain masculinity tied to it. People are able to easily get more money loaned to afford these more expensive vehicles as well.
- cema 10y ago
  Not sure about trucks but modern SUVs have a good mpg rating. About as good as recent sedans.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    The best trucks are around 25 mpg highway, sedans can be over 30 mpg (it's a big category; a larger, high performance sedan will use more fuel than a smaller one and so on). Which is comparable, but it also ends up being an extra gallon of fuel every 100 miles (on a base of about 3 gallons per 100 miles).
    - imgabe 10y ago
      The biggest gains are at the lower end. Far more gas is saved by going from 10mpg to 20mpg than from 20mpg to 40mpg. Just look at the math: 10,000 miles per year at 10 mpg = 1000 gallons of gas 10,000 miles per year at 20 mpg = 500 gallons of gas 10,000 miles per year at 40 mpg = 250 gallons of gas You save 500 gallons going from 10 -> 20 mpg, but only 250 gallons going from 20-> 40. Of course it's best to use the highest mpg you can, but the benefit drops proportionally as it gets higher, so it's harder to justify the extra expense when a lower mpg vehicle (but still relatively high) might be much less expensive to buy and maintain and possibly even have less environmental impact to manufacture. After all someone has to mine the Lithium etc. in all those batteries.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        Of course it's best to use the highest mpg you can, but the benefit drops proportionally as it gets higher, so it's harder to justify the extra expense when a lower mpg vehicle (but still relatively high) might be much less expensive to buy and maintain and possibly even have less environmental impact to manufacture. The trucks and SUVs in OPs post are both more expensive and more material intensive than a 35 mpg sedan. I agree with you about the tradeoff as you go up the mileage scale from there, but there are lots of medium sized vehicles that just destroy trucks and SUVs on those metrics.
    - candu 10y ago
      Motorcycle owner here. I routinely get 60-80 mpg, depending on smoothness of traffic, terrain, tire pressure, and load. Of course, this isn't a fair comparison. Personally, I'd love to see much wider use of HOV lanes, possibly with a steep up-front permit cost for people who refuse to carpool. (By the time this happens, though, we'll probably all be using just-in-time self-driving cars.)
    - cema 10y ago
      On my 2017 Subaru Forester I routinely make about 29 mpg when going to and from work. (Which nicely coincides with my 29-mile commute.) According to the car passport, it should be getting 26 mpg in city, 32 on highway, 28 overall, but I am not sure what kind of traffic is considered "city", "highway" and so on.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        The forester mileage (I drive one) is highly sensitive to driving style. You can only get above 30mph by being very conservative - shifting up at 2000RPM, coasting whenever possible, accelerating like you're pressing on eggshells. Just put up the instantaneous-mileage screen and you'll see how hard it is to keep it in the higher range.
        cema 10y ago
        That's what I do (drive with the mileage screen on). I coast a lot, and in general am pretty gentle on the gas pedal, except when I need to join the traffic, where I sometimes apply the full pressure: CVT is a bit different from what I am used to but seems ok.
greggman 10y ago
Im sure this is a dumb question but why are your energy wasteful activities ok but others' are not? Who gets to decide that? Maybe you flew 5hrs somewhere and your jet fuel environmental damage ends up being larger for the year than the suv driver who didn't make any long distance trips I think this points to a basic issue. The only way forward is progress like Tesla and Impossible Foods and not in some elites choosing which wasteful activities are ok and which aren't
- Shivetya 10y ago
  buying phones and computers that fly, yes FLY, from China is acceptable to many because they don't see it. however they see a lone driver in a CUV/SUV and freak out without thinking beyond the fact that most families can afford one or two cars and don't have specific vehicles for commuting. So it is far easier to lump guilt on what you see or have to see versus what you cannot. The way forward isn't tied to any particular brand. Its pulling back from a marketing driven world which has convinced people that not only do they need all of it they deserve it.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Would it be elite to tax both activities relative to the estimated damage? (Passenger miles really aren't so bad, an airliner with a few hundred people on it is doing a lot more work than a commuter's SUV)
  - greggman 10y ago
    According to Wikipedia 1mile in a plane is equivalent to 1 mile in a 4 seat car per person. So your personal emissions from say round trip SF to NYC is the same as driving a car for 8200 miles. And that doesn't include the other enviromental impacts. In other words travel is arguably a very environment unfriendly thing you to do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_avia...
- rtpg 10y ago
  The difference between driving an SUV in towns and taking a flight is that there aren't many more fuel-efficient ways to cross the pacific. Agree with the sentiment, though. We all want to make improvements. The strongest way to cut waste probably is less around making our current lifestyles cleaner (electric cars, easier to grow food), and more around making our lifestyles themselves cleaner (walkable cities, stop eating as much, or as much meat). EDIT: Yeah, maybe I shouldn't ever cross the Pacific. It is a luxury in itself.
chestervonwinch 10y ago
People buy trucks for two purposes: utility (ability to haul loads, etc) and transportation. The higher utility comes at a price (more gas), and in general this balances with how frequently you require the the utility of a truck. Currently, gas prices are low, so someone who uses the utility less frequently may be more inclined to purchase a truck.
Clubber 10y ago
I drive an SUV. I work 10 minutes from my house and remote 2 days a week. I fill up the tank of about 20 gallons once a month.
- the-dude 10y ago
  Why do you drive at all?
  - smhenderson 10y ago
    Weather? Errands to run at lunch? I'm not the OP but I am in a similar situation. I walk or ride a bike to work for about 80% of the work days in a year but I do drive a compact SUV to work sometimes. We bought it because we have a large family. I can only afford one vehicle for my family so it's practical when we all pile in but feels "wrong" when I drive it by myself. But sometimes a need is there so I use it when I have to and offset the waste of it as best I can by walking or riding a bike when the weather allows for it.
  - Clubber 10y ago
    Because I live in a hot state and if I walked or rode 10 miles to work everyday I'd stink to high heaven.
SeanDav 10y ago
There are numerous good reasons to buy a truck or SUV that supersede the question of emissions. Absolutely, the question of emissions should be on the list of considerations, but unless one can understand all the buying reasons/decisions for a particular buyer, one should not rush to judge.
- jokoon 10y ago
  What kind of reasons?
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Kids is the biggest. Small cars absolutely are horrible to deal with two kids in car seats. Plus, most need some ergonomic fix for the back seat access. A couple with two kids (or Lord help you three) is not probably buying an SUV. Truthfully, if some designer got off their butt and designed a car that focused on actual use of the car in American, then SUVs wouldn't be so popular. Just saying people don't need a SUV is ignorant.
    - scld 10y ago
      And, honestly, at this point, living in a city, I feel like I can either just hop in an uber or I need to borrow a truck for the utility. So, maximum utility-wise, it almost seems to me (as someone with an active lifestyle who drives away from the city for activities) that owning an SUV/truck to drive part time and using ride sharing for basic commute is the best compromise.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        How do you use Uber with kids in car seats?
        scld 10y ago
        The point of my statement is that you would use the SUV/Truck for hauling around the kids to school/sports/roadtrips when you need a larger car and use uber or walk when you are just transporting adults or going quickly to the grocery store.
mikestew 10y ago
People are buying more trucks and SUVs and fewer small cars? I own a Nissan Leaf and a motorcycle that gets 50mpg. That gets cancelled out every year when I hop on a cross-country flight to visit my parents in FL. But I still get to signal my environmental concern every time I drive the Leaf!
- angry_octet 10y ago
  And would it be better or worse if instead of a Leaf you drove a truck?

dugditches 10y ago

Yes. The price of gasoline at the pumps has gone down due to the dip in Oil Markets. So people were drawn back to SUVs and Trucks. I don't many give much thought to Climate Change. Lots of people drive Trucks with Crewcabs as a social symbol rather than a work vehicle. And could easily get by with a Car. There's a certain masculinity tied to it. People are able to easily get more money loaned to afford these more expensive vehicles as well.

cema 10y ago
Not sure about trucks but modern SUVs have a good mpg rating. About as good as recent sedans.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  The best trucks are around 25 mpg highway, sedans can be over 30 mpg (it's a big category; a larger, high performance sedan will use more fuel than a smaller one and so on). Which is comparable, but it also ends up being an extra gallon of fuel every 100 miles (on a base of about 3 gallons per 100 miles).
  - imgabe 10y ago
    The biggest gains are at the lower end. Far more gas is saved by going from 10mpg to 20mpg than from 20mpg to 40mpg. Just look at the math: 10,000 miles per year at 10 mpg = 1000 gallons of gas 10,000 miles per year at 20 mpg = 500 gallons of gas 10,000 miles per year at 40 mpg = 250 gallons of gas You save 500 gallons going from 10 -> 20 mpg, but only 250 gallons going from 20-> 40. Of course it's best to use the highest mpg you can, but the benefit drops proportionally as it gets higher, so it's harder to justify the extra expense when a lower mpg vehicle (but still relatively high) might be much less expensive to buy and maintain and possibly even have less environmental impact to manufacture. After all someone has to mine the Lithium etc. in all those batteries.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Of course it's best to use the highest mpg you can, but the benefit drops proportionally as it gets higher, so it's harder to justify the extra expense when a lower mpg vehicle (but still relatively high) might be much less expensive to buy and maintain and possibly even have less environmental impact to manufacture. The trucks and SUVs in OPs post are both more expensive and more material intensive than a 35 mpg sedan. I agree with you about the tradeoff as you go up the mileage scale from there, but there are lots of medium sized vehicles that just destroy trucks and SUVs on those metrics.
  - candu 10y ago
    Motorcycle owner here. I routinely get 60-80 mpg, depending on smoothness of traffic, terrain, tire pressure, and load. Of course, this isn't a fair comparison. Personally, I'd love to see much wider use of HOV lanes, possibly with a steep up-front permit cost for people who refuse to carpool. (By the time this happens, though, we'll probably all be using just-in-time self-driving cars.)
  - cema 10y ago
    On my 2017 Subaru Forester I routinely make about 29 mpg when going to and from work. (Which nicely coincides with my 29-mile commute.) According to the car passport, it should be getting 26 mpg in city, 32 on highway, 28 overall, but I am not sure what kind of traffic is considered "city", "highway" and so on.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      The forester mileage (I drive one) is highly sensitive to driving style. You can only get above 30mph by being very conservative - shifting up at 2000RPM, coasting whenever possible, accelerating like you're pressing on eggshells. Just put up the instantaneous-mileage screen and you'll see how hard it is to keep it in the higher range.
      - cema 10y ago
        That's what I do (drive with the mileage screen on). I coast a lot, and in general am pretty gentle on the gas pedal, except when I need to join the traffic, where I sometimes apply the full pressure: CVT is a bit different from what I am used to but seems ok.

greggman 10y ago

Im sure this is a dumb question but why are your energy wasteful activities ok but others' are not? Who gets to decide that? Maybe you flew 5hrs somewhere and your jet fuel environmental damage ends up being larger for the year than the suv driver who didn't make any long distance trips I think this points to a basic issue. The only way forward is progress like Tesla and Impossible Foods and not in some elites choosing which wasteful activities are ok and which aren't

Shivetya 10y ago
buying phones and computers that fly, yes FLY, from China is acceptable to many because they don't see it. however they see a lone driver in a CUV/SUV and freak out without thinking beyond the fact that most families can afford one or two cars and don't have specific vehicles for commuting. So it is far easier to lump guilt on what you see or have to see versus what you cannot. The way forward isn't tied to any particular brand. Its pulling back from a marketing driven world which has convinced people that not only do they need all of it they deserve it.
maxerickson 10y ago
Would it be elite to tax both activities relative to the estimated damage? (Passenger miles really aren't so bad, an airliner with a few hundred people on it is doing a lot more work than a commuter's SUV)
- greggman 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia 1mile in a plane is equivalent to 1 mile in a 4 seat car per person. So your personal emissions from say round trip SF to NYC is the same as driving a car for 8200 miles. And that doesn't include the other enviromental impacts. In other words travel is arguably a very environment unfriendly thing you to do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_avia...
rtpg 10y ago
The difference between driving an SUV in towns and taking a flight is that there aren't many more fuel-efficient ways to cross the pacific. Agree with the sentiment, though. We all want to make improvements. The strongest way to cut waste probably is less around making our current lifestyles cleaner (electric cars, easier to grow food), and more around making our lifestyles themselves cleaner (walkable cities, stop eating as much, or as much meat). EDIT: Yeah, maybe I shouldn't ever cross the Pacific. It is a luxury in itself.

chestervonwinch 10y ago

People buy trucks for two purposes: utility (ability to haul loads, etc) and transportation. The higher utility comes at a price (more gas), and in general this balances with how frequently you require the the utility of a truck. Currently, gas prices are low, so someone who uses the utility less frequently may be more inclined to purchase a truck.

Clubber 10y ago

I drive an SUV. I work 10 minutes from my house and remote 2 days a week. I fill up the tank of about 20 gallons once a month.

the-dude 10y ago
Why do you drive at all?
- smhenderson 10y ago
  Weather? Errands to run at lunch? I'm not the OP but I am in a similar situation. I walk or ride a bike to work for about 80% of the work days in a year but I do drive a compact SUV to work sometimes. We bought it because we have a large family. I can only afford one vehicle for my family so it's practical when we all pile in but feels "wrong" when I drive it by myself. But sometimes a need is there so I use it when I have to and offset the waste of it as best I can by walking or riding a bike when the weather allows for it.
- Clubber 10y ago
  Because I live in a hot state and if I walked or rode 10 miles to work everyday I'd stink to high heaven.

SeanDav 10y ago

There are numerous good reasons to buy a truck or SUV that supersede the question of emissions. Absolutely, the question of emissions should be on the list of considerations, but unless one can understand all the buying reasons/decisions for a particular buyer, one should not rush to judge.

jokoon 10y ago
What kind of reasons?
- protomyth 10y ago
  Kids is the biggest. Small cars absolutely are horrible to deal with two kids in car seats. Plus, most need some ergonomic fix for the back seat access. A couple with two kids (or Lord help you three) is not probably buying an SUV. Truthfully, if some designer got off their butt and designed a car that focused on actual use of the car in American, then SUVs wouldn't be so popular. Just saying people don't need a SUV is ignorant.
  - scld 10y ago
    And, honestly, at this point, living in a city, I feel like I can either just hop in an uber or I need to borrow a truck for the utility. So, maximum utility-wise, it almost seems to me (as someone with an active lifestyle who drives away from the city for activities) that owning an SUV/truck to drive part time and using ride sharing for basic commute is the best compromise.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      How do you use Uber with kids in car seats?
      - scld 10y ago
        The point of my statement is that you would use the SUV/Truck for hauling around the kids to school/sports/roadtrips when you need a larger car and use uber or walk when you are just transporting adults or going quickly to the grocery store.

mikestew 10y ago

People are buying more trucks and SUVs and fewer small cars? I own a Nissan Leaf and a motorcycle that gets 50mpg. That gets cancelled out every year when I hop on a cross-country flight to visit my parents in FL. But I still get to signal my environmental concern every time I drive the Leaf!

angry_octet 10y ago
And would it be better or worse if instead of a Leaf you drove a truck?