5 ms·

> It doesn't make sense to demand that Mexico pay for it. It's like building a wall on your property and demanding your neighbors pay for it. When buying a hou

> It doesn't make sense to demand that Mexico pay for it. It's like building a wall on your property and demanding your neighbors pay for it. When buying a house, wouldnt you try to negotiate for seller concessions like paying for repairs? Trumps wall comments were always in conjunction with discussing the massive trade deficit with Mexico. If we are in a stronger position to negotiate with Mexico, why wouldnt we negotiate the best deal we can get? If you really think about it. We only need this wall because of Mexico, so why should we pay if we dont have to?

yolesaber 10y ago
>If you really think about it. We only need this wall because of Mexico, so why should we pay if we dont have to? If you really think about it, we don't need the wall at all because people will just dig holes underneath it, like they have with all the other walls and fencing we have built. 1,954 miles is a long way to go - https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/best-of-luck-with-the-wall/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/best-of-luck-with-the-wa...
- Zpalmtree 10y ago
  Israel built a 245 mile wall. Illegal immigration dropped from 9570 to 34 over the same time period. Obviously it won't be foolproof, but that's pretty good.
  - finid 10y ago
    I'm willing to bet that most of the money used to build that 245-mile wall came from the US (via aids). Perhaps Trump should ask Israel for help in building his wall.
    - davemel37 10y ago
      >Perhaps Trump should ask Israel for help in building his wall. I'm sure he will ask them for engineering help and guidance.
      - cnnsucks 10y ago
        Indeed. And I'm sure they'll be happy to provide both. That's what allies are supposed to do. Sure will be a nice change from the past eight years of barely contained hostility.
        finid 10y ago
        barely contained hostility or simply correcting your friend when he's behaving badly. From your comment, I think you'll love the next 4 years. I just pity the Palestinians.
        cnnsucks 10y ago
        > I just pity the Palestinians. I'm sure they'll welcome yet more pity to wallow in.
- josho 10y ago
  The problem with your argument is that it presumes that a border can't be protected. As far as I could discover in my brief searches for information during the election, the border is fairly secure. So, really the wall is more of a symbol than actual border security. Sadly, it's a symbol that resonates with a disturbingly large percent of the population.
- brandon272 10y ago
  What stops Mexicans from just going through regular border crossings and never leaving?
albinofrenchy 10y ago
> When buying a house, wouldnt you try to negotiate for seller concessions like paying for repairs? Yes; but you typically do that before you buy the property, we've had texas for a while now. All the talk about trade deficit with Mexico makes it sound like people think we just cut Mexico a check every year. As a nation, we receive goods and services for that deficit. It isn't money on the table.
- davemel37 10y ago
  I'm not going to pretend to understand the nuances of these issues, but it seems to me that governments are artificially creating these trade deficits with tax and import/export tariff schemes. I don't understand them, but I don't see how it's a bad idea to at least explore how Chinas currency manipulation and various trade deficits/ tariffs can better reflect the true market and not be artificially manipulated by various governments. If the trade deficit with Mexico has to do with import/export inbalances to favor that deficit, I see no reason not to try to renegotiate it. Again, I have no real working knowledge of these issues, just a cursory and uninformed opinion.
mywittyname 10y ago
> If you really think about it. We only need this wall because of Mexico, so why should we pay if we dont have to? People flee Mexico because it's an extremely poor country with a horrible government and is controlled by drug cartels. Screwing the country over further economically sounds like the worst way to solve this problem. In fact, it seems like a very good way to exacerbate the problem. Perhaps that's why private prison stocks are up so much on Trump's election. His actions are clearly going to increase the flow of illegal immigrants into the US, and now that these people can be tossed into federal prison for mandatory minimum sentences. So the end result is, the federal government will be on the hook for something like a quarter million dollars for each one of the people caught crossing the border. Trump just created a (12 million illegal immigrants * $250k/yr each * 5yr minimum sentences = $15 trillion) market.
- davemel37 10y ago
  > Screwing the country over further economically sounds like the worst way to solve this problem. First, I am just a random uneducated and ignorant American, so take my two cents for what it is...only two cents. From my vantage point, cutting off the drug cartels access to the US market could potentially do wonders to shifting the balance of power and helping Mexico in the long run. Also, as unpopular as it is, the US governments first mandate is to protect it's citizens. Sometimes that means making tough choices that doesn't help everybody, but responsibility takes maturity and a willingness to consider unpopular options. >His actions are clearly going to increase the flow of illegal immigrants into the US, and now that these people can be tossed into federal prison... I think missed the key word in his contract "CRIMINAL". He is not talking about people who broke the law by illegally imigrating. He is talking about FELONS who ALSO came here illegally. They certainly don't belong roaming our streets unchecked. Contributing illegal immigrants is a different discussion, but convicted felons, rapists, murderers, etc... who come here illegally belong in Mexican prisons and should be mexico's problem...if they can't do it, than yes, well put them in prison...to KEEP YOUR AND YOUR FAMILY SAFE.
  - waterphone 10y ago
    You're not going to cut off the drug cartels. Sorry, it just isn't going to happen, and I say that as someone who lives in an area they use as a common smuggling route and have encountered groups of smugglers multiple times in the past few years. They walk through the desert and climb mountains with 60+ lb bales of marijuana on their back for days to a week at a time, going into terrain Border Patrol agents won't even try following them through most of the time. Even if a wall somehow gets built across the mountains and canyons all along the border, which it won't, they'll tunnel under, fire bales over, etc. They are very incentivized to get through, and they are very skilled at doing so and will find a way. As for the use of the word "criminal", I think you may be the one misunderstanding in this instance. That word is used to refer to those Trump plans to deport, but on the second page you'll note: > establishes a two-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation No mention of criminal there—if you get caught more than once you would go to federal prison in the U.S. for a mandatory minimum of 2 years.

yolesaber 10y ago

>If you really think about it. We only need this wall because of Mexico, so why should we pay if we dont have to? If you really think about it, we don't need the wall at all because people will just dig holes underneath it, like they have with all the other walls and fencing we have built. 1,954 miles is a long way to go - https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/best-of-luck-with-the-wall/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/best-of-luck-with-the-wa...

Zpalmtree 10y ago
Israel built a 245 mile wall. Illegal immigration dropped from 9570 to 34 over the same time period. Obviously it won't be foolproof, but that's pretty good.
- finid 10y ago
  I'm willing to bet that most of the money used to build that 245-mile wall came from the US (via aids). Perhaps Trump should ask Israel for help in building his wall.
  - davemel37 10y ago
    >Perhaps Trump should ask Israel for help in building his wall. I'm sure he will ask them for engineering help and guidance.
    - cnnsucks 10y ago
      Indeed. And I'm sure they'll be happy to provide both. That's what allies are supposed to do. Sure will be a nice change from the past eight years of barely contained hostility.
      - finid 10y ago
        barely contained hostility or simply correcting your friend when he's behaving badly. From your comment, I think you'll love the next 4 years. I just pity the Palestinians.
        cnnsucks 10y ago
        > I just pity the Palestinians. I'm sure they'll welcome yet more pity to wallow in.
josho 10y ago
The problem with your argument is that it presumes that a border can't be protected. As far as I could discover in my brief searches for information during the election, the border is fairly secure. So, really the wall is more of a symbol than actual border security. Sadly, it's a symbol that resonates with a disturbingly large percent of the population.
brandon272 10y ago
What stops Mexicans from just going through regular border crossings and never leaving?

albinofrenchy 10y ago

> When buying a house, wouldnt you try to negotiate for seller concessions like paying for repairs? Yes; but you typically do that before you buy the property, we've had texas for a while now. All the talk about trade deficit with Mexico makes it sound like people think we just cut Mexico a check every year. As a nation, we receive goods and services for that deficit. It isn't money on the table.

davemel37 10y ago
I'm not going to pretend to understand the nuances of these issues, but it seems to me that governments are artificially creating these trade deficits with tax and import/export tariff schemes. I don't understand them, but I don't see how it's a bad idea to at least explore how Chinas currency manipulation and various trade deficits/ tariffs can better reflect the true market and not be artificially manipulated by various governments. If the trade deficit with Mexico has to do with import/export inbalances to favor that deficit, I see no reason not to try to renegotiate it. Again, I have no real working knowledge of these issues, just a cursory and uninformed opinion.

mywittyname 10y ago

> If you really think about it. We only need this wall because of Mexico, so why should we pay if we dont have to? People flee Mexico because it's an extremely poor country with a horrible government and is controlled by drug cartels. Screwing the country over further economically sounds like the worst way to solve this problem. In fact, it seems like a very good way to exacerbate the problem. Perhaps that's why private prison stocks are up so much on Trump's election. His actions are clearly going to increase the flow of illegal immigrants into the US, and now that these people can be tossed into federal prison for mandatory minimum sentences. So the end result is, the federal government will be on the hook for something like a quarter million dollars for each one of the people caught crossing the border. Trump just created a (12 million illegal immigrants * $250k/yr each * 5yr minimum sentences = $15 trillion) market.

davemel37 10y ago
> Screwing the country over further economically sounds like the worst way to solve this problem. First, I am just a random uneducated and ignorant American, so take my two cents for what it is...only two cents. From my vantage point, cutting off the drug cartels access to the US market could potentially do wonders to shifting the balance of power and helping Mexico in the long run. Also, as unpopular as it is, the US governments first mandate is to protect it's citizens. Sometimes that means making tough choices that doesn't help everybody, but responsibility takes maturity and a willingness to consider unpopular options. >His actions are clearly going to increase the flow of illegal immigrants into the US, and now that these people can be tossed into federal prison... I think missed the key word in his contract "CRIMINAL". He is not talking about people who broke the law by illegally imigrating. He is talking about FELONS who ALSO came here illegally. They certainly don't belong roaming our streets unchecked. Contributing illegal immigrants is a different discussion, but convicted felons, rapists, murderers, etc... who come here illegally belong in Mexican prisons and should be mexico's problem...if they can't do it, than yes, well put them in prison...to KEEP YOUR AND YOUR FAMILY SAFE.
- waterphone 10y ago
  You're not going to cut off the drug cartels. Sorry, it just isn't going to happen, and I say that as someone who lives in an area they use as a common smuggling route and have encountered groups of smugglers multiple times in the past few years. They walk through the desert and climb mountains with 60+ lb bales of marijuana on their back for days to a week at a time, going into terrain Border Patrol agents won't even try following them through most of the time. Even if a wall somehow gets built across the mountains and canyons all along the border, which it won't, they'll tunnel under, fire bales over, etc. They are very incentivized to get through, and they are very skilled at doing so and will find a way. As for the use of the word "criminal", I think you may be the one misunderstanding in this instance. That word is used to refer to those Trump plans to deport, but on the second page you'll note: > establishes a two-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation No mention of criminal there—if you get caught more than once you would go to federal prison in the U.S. for a mandatory minimum of 2 years.