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Obama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. OK that didn't work so who else you got? Bernie, outsider with nothing, no money,

by harry8 10y ago

Obama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. OK that didn't work so who else you got? Bernie, outsider with nothing, no money, no establishment friends, too old, been a democtat for 5 minutes and nearly got the democratic nomination and the dem establishment hate him and broke the rules fighting him. Donald has fame and got the republican nomination. Republican establishment hate him. American voters want change. Change at any cost right now. And they'll keep trying for it. There has been no meaningful political reform. Regulatory capture and gerrymander are the norm. People hate it. They genuinely hate the status quo, the political establishment. Really hate it. Whoever is judged the most likely to do something, anything, in the way of reform has a huge advantage. You can be inexperienced and African American, you can be a blow-hard who inherited a billion dollars. Doesn't matter if people actually believe you are more for change and reform than the opposition. It's not the only important thing but having credibility as an agent for change is extremely valuable. Hilary had precisely no credibility on that count and was proud of it .

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Brakenshire 10y ago
> Obama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. He had two years where he had legislative power, and spent that time shoring up the US economy after the financial crisis and passing healthcare reform. Had he passed political reform instead he would have been accused of putting elite concerns before the practical things affecting ordinary people. One of the problems in the US seems to be that the President has all the rhetoric of a ruler, but in fact only has power with Congress. People invest an enormous amount of hope and effort into the federal system, but in fact it's mostly ineffective, if the two parties are at one another's throats no one is capable of action a majority of the time. The system is set up to rely on the states for action, but people move around so much the states aren't seen as worth the effort (because you might be taking a job on the other side of the country in a year or two). It's a system which doesn't really match up with how people live their lives.
- pjmorris 10y ago
  > He had two years where he had legislative power, and spent that time shoring up the US economy after the financial crisis and passing healthcare reform. Respectfully, he shored up the banks that had precipitated the crisis rather than the people most affected by the crisis. Some will call that virtuous and necessary, or 'deeply unfair' and necessary (Timothy Geithner), but the people who benefited are not the people who voted last night. As for healthcare reform, he chose health insurance rather than health care. From the point of view of most of the people who voted last night, that means another bill to pay, not better healthcare. He invested his power, to the degree he had it, more in keeping things the same than in the change people voted him in for.
  - beerbajay 10y ago
    Obamacare is a compromise and it's a compromise required because of the Republican party, there was never enough votes to get real health care legislation. So: not Obama's fault, though it is the fault of the Democratic party letting the Republicans gerrymander themselves to a consistent house majority
    - pjmorris 10y ago
      Until 2010, the Democrats held control of the House, Senate, and White House. At least consider the possibility that they accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        Procedural rules in the Senate gave a lot of influence to the marginal votes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda... Which depending on which 'they' you are using, may or may not contradict your point.
    - TheGirondin 10y ago
      The ACA was passed with 0 votes from Republicans in the House or Senate, and there was a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. There was no need or desire for real comprise on the ACA. In fact, after it passes, Speaker Pelosi and Senate majority leader Reid had a little parade where they gloated about getting it through without Republicans.
pavanky 10y ago
> American voters want change. Change at any cost right now. And they'll keep trying for it. And yet they keep voting in the same Congress which can affect the most change.

by harry8 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Brakenshire 10y ago

> Obama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. He had two years where he had legislative power, and spent that time shoring up the US economy after the financial crisis and passing healthcare reform. Had he passed political reform instead he would have been accused of putting elite concerns before the practical things affecting ordinary people. One of the problems in the US seems to be that the President has all the rhetoric of a ruler, but in fact only has power with Congress. People invest an enormous amount of hope and effort into the federal system, but in fact it's mostly ineffective, if the two parties are at one another's throats no one is capable of action a majority of the time. The system is set up to rely on the states for action, but people move around so much the states aren't seen as worth the effort (because you might be taking a job on the other side of the country in a year or two). It's a system which doesn't really match up with how people live their lives.

pjmorris 10y ago
> He had two years where he had legislative power, and spent that time shoring up the US economy after the financial crisis and passing healthcare reform. Respectfully, he shored up the banks that had precipitated the crisis rather than the people most affected by the crisis. Some will call that virtuous and necessary, or 'deeply unfair' and necessary (Timothy Geithner), but the people who benefited are not the people who voted last night. As for healthcare reform, he chose health insurance rather than health care. From the point of view of most of the people who voted last night, that means another bill to pay, not better healthcare. He invested his power, to the degree he had it, more in keeping things the same than in the change people voted him in for.
- beerbajay 10y ago
  Obamacare is a compromise and it's a compromise required because of the Republican party, there was never enough votes to get real health care legislation. So: not Obama's fault, though it is the fault of the Democratic party letting the Republicans gerrymander themselves to a consistent house majority
  - pjmorris 10y ago
    Until 2010, the Democrats held control of the House, Senate, and White House. At least consider the possibility that they accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Procedural rules in the Senate gave a lot of influence to the marginal votes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda... Which depending on which 'they' you are using, may or may not contradict your point.
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    The ACA was passed with 0 votes from Republicans in the House or Senate, and there was a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. There was no need or desire for real comprise on the ACA. In fact, after it passes, Speaker Pelosi and Senate majority leader Reid had a little parade where they gloated about getting it through without Republicans.

pavanky 10y ago

> American voters want change. Change at any cost right now. And they'll keep trying for it. And yet they keep voting in the same Congress which can affect the most change.