3 ms·

I wonder how this might affect startups in Canada? Will it be easier to hire American programmers? Will more investors come up north?

Aldo_MX 10y ago
Maybe not Americans, but Mexicans, since the visa requirements are expected to be lifted[1]. [1] http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/06/28/canada-lift-visa-requirements-mexico http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/06/28/canada-lift-visa-req...
dba7dba 10y ago
How long does it take for paper work to be completed? 1-2 years? And than what? Trump will almost certainly mess up enough (which Dem have warned about) to be out of office after just 1 term. And will they go through the paper work to return to US?
- retreatguru 10y ago
  I think highly skilled and paid jobs are expedited. Above CAD $85k I believe.
  - spoonie 10y ago
    I was making $70k as a newgrad in Waterloo back in 2012.
- Scoundreller 10y ago
  If you can get your paperwork for a TN-1 visa, you just show up at the border with your application and it's approved on-the-spot. It's not a permanent visa, but it gives you time.
- mattkrause 10y ago
  I got my postdoc work permit in about...ten minutes? You show up at the border with your passport, the fee, and few documents from your employer. They do some stuff on the computer and then awkwardly disappear for a few minutes. You pay the cashier and the guard reappears with your completed work permit. Done. As far as I know, there's also not much paperwork for returning to the US, though you're supposed to inventory all of the stuff you bring back with you.
adomanico 10y ago
Software professionals might get to Canada, see the smaller paycheck and run back home!
- chongli 10y ago
  The pay may be a lot less here but real estate is way cheaper. For the price of a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco you could buy a 4 bedroom house in Waterloo. We have a nice startup scene here that's really expected to take off when the LRT opens up in 2018.
  - StephenConnell 10y ago
    For the price if a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco you could buy a 4 bedroom house in northern California. (3+ hr drive north of SF)
    - chongli 10y ago
      Who wants a 3 hour commute? If you worked at a startup in Waterloo you'd have a 5 minute commute from your 4 bedroom to the office. You could walk to work, just as people do from their really expensive apartments in SF.
      - fredophile 10y ago
        Who wants to live in Waterloo? People who enjoy living in expensive apartments in SF probably wouldn't enjoy living in a city that small. They're willing to pay high rents for a reason.
  - vchynarov 10y ago
    I am a student of the university of Waterloo and I have lived in San Francisco on two separate occasions in both San Francisco / Mountain View. Are you seriously comparing SF living to Waterloo living? There's a reason it's 1/4 the price. It's a running joke between every single undergraduate student with significant experience in SF that we want to get out of Waterloo. LRT opening up? That's a joke. How exactly is the LRT going to help the startup scene?
rpeden 10y ago
As it stands now, I doubt that many American programmers would be willing to take the pay cut they'd have to accept if they came to work here. I like it here, and I'm happy with what I make, but when you factor in the exchange rate, a typical US developer would take a huge salary haircut working here; probably 40-50%.
- retreatguru 10y ago
  That is true. But there are also a number of perks such as universal health care. So maybe just a certain type of developer would move - one motivated by values rather than money. Perhaps similar to the draft dodgers who came up in the late 60s.
  - rpeden 10y ago
    That's definitely true. And don't get me wrong, salaries aren't terrible, all things considered. If you're a dev with a few years experience here, you're likely making significantly more money on your own that they average Canadian family earns.
  - spoonie 10y ago
    Not just health care, university tuition is way cheaper too. (And child care, in Québec.)
    - spoonie 10y ago
      I forgot paternity leave, unemployment benefits, and usually more vacation.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  Sure, but (depending on the area, at least) you can live very comfortably on 50% of what a west-coast US developer makes. Techies tend to forget that our pay rates are way above the national average.
  - rpeden 10y ago

Aldo_MX 10y ago

Maybe not Americans, but Mexicans, since the visa requirements are expected to be lifted[1]. [1] http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/06/28/canada-lift-visa-requirements-mexico http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/06/28/canada-lift-visa-req...

dba7dba 10y ago

How long does it take for paper work to be completed? 1-2 years? And than what? Trump will almost certainly mess up enough (which Dem have warned about) to be out of office after just 1 term. And will they go through the paper work to return to US?

retreatguru 10y ago
I think highly skilled and paid jobs are expedited. Above CAD $85k I believe.
- spoonie 10y ago
  I was making $70k as a newgrad in Waterloo back in 2012.
Scoundreller 10y ago
If you can get your paperwork for a TN-1 visa, you just show up at the border with your application and it's approved on-the-spot. It's not a permanent visa, but it gives you time.
mattkrause 10y ago
I got my postdoc work permit in about...ten minutes? You show up at the border with your passport, the fee, and few documents from your employer. They do some stuff on the computer and then awkwardly disappear for a few minutes. You pay the cashier and the guard reappears with your completed work permit. Done. As far as I know, there's also not much paperwork for returning to the US, though you're supposed to inventory all of the stuff you bring back with you.

adomanico 10y ago

Software professionals might get to Canada, see the smaller paycheck and run back home!

chongli 10y ago
The pay may be a lot less here but real estate is way cheaper. For the price of a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco you could buy a 4 bedroom house in Waterloo. We have a nice startup scene here that's really expected to take off when the LRT opens up in 2018.
- StephenConnell 10y ago
  For the price if a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco you could buy a 4 bedroom house in northern California. (3+ hr drive north of SF)
  - chongli 10y ago
    Who wants a 3 hour commute? If you worked at a startup in Waterloo you'd have a 5 minute commute from your 4 bedroom to the office. You could walk to work, just as people do from their really expensive apartments in SF.
    - fredophile 10y ago
      Who wants to live in Waterloo? People who enjoy living in expensive apartments in SF probably wouldn't enjoy living in a city that small. They're willing to pay high rents for a reason.
- vchynarov 10y ago
  I am a student of the university of Waterloo and I have lived in San Francisco on two separate occasions in both San Francisco / Mountain View. Are you seriously comparing SF living to Waterloo living? There's a reason it's 1/4 the price. It's a running joke between every single undergraduate student with significant experience in SF that we want to get out of Waterloo. LRT opening up? That's a joke. How exactly is the LRT going to help the startup scene?

rpeden 10y ago

As it stands now, I doubt that many American programmers would be willing to take the pay cut they'd have to accept if they came to work here. I like it here, and I'm happy with what I make, but when you factor in the exchange rate, a typical US developer would take a huge salary haircut working here; probably 40-50%.

retreatguru 10y ago
That is true. But there are also a number of perks such as universal health care. So maybe just a certain type of developer would move - one motivated by values rather than money. Perhaps similar to the draft dodgers who came up in the late 60s.
- rpeden 10y ago
  That's definitely true. And don't get me wrong, salaries aren't terrible, all things considered. If you're a dev with a few years experience here, you're likely making significantly more money on your own that they average Canadian family earns.
- spoonie 10y ago
  Not just health care, university tuition is way cheaper too. (And child care, in Québec.)
  - spoonie 10y ago
    I forgot paternity leave, unemployment benefits, and usually more vacation.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
Sure, but (depending on the area, at least) you can live very comfortably on 50% of what a west-coast US developer makes. Techies tend to forget that our pay rates are way above the national average.
- rpeden 10y ago