6 ms·

I've seen this "minimalism == privileged posing" line of argument a few times now. It may be fair in many cases, but I think there's another angle that never se

by mrec 10y ago

I've seen this "minimalism == privileged posing" line of argument a few times now. It may be fair in many cases, but I think there's another angle that never seems to get mentioned: I'd guess that a disproportionate number of these "posers" live in tech hubs like SF, NY or London. In places like that, owning stuff may simply be unaffordable, not because the stuff itself is unaffordable but because space to put it is unaffordable. That is, they may be cash-rich but space-poor, whereas the stereotypical rural redneck with 3 old cars up on bricks in the front yard for spares may be cash-poor but space-rich. You can call this "sour grapes" or "making a virtue of necessity", depending on how generous you're feeling, but I think there's more to it than just posing.

maxxxxx 10y ago
I just wish they would write about it only a few years after they have started to go minimalist and have actually lived it. There are so many articles who write how great being minimalist is two weeks after they have sold their car or whatever.
- bovermyer 10y ago
  Conor McMillen does this.
- mikestew 10y ago
  I've been wondering about this as well. Looking back, I guess I've always been kind "minimalist" (before it was cool, suckers). Liked running because less equipment. Went years without a car in Indianapolis where public transit was such a joke as to be almost non-existent. Seldom keep things around for "sentimental value". I just don't want things hanging around that take up space or need attention unless they serve some regular utility. (And for the record, my wife and I suck at being "minimalist", but we do put up a good fight. But no one's going to look in our garage and mistake us for Buddhist monks.) But you have to keep constantly vigilant. Much like training for a marathon, where every day has at least some portion of it taken up by training, each meal involves making good decisions, and kiss your Sundays goodbye because you won't be doing much after that 20 mile run other than taking a nap. The minimalist weighs every potential purchase, has to figure out to get to that party without a car, has to figure out how to cook supper with a single spork. And like anything that takes up a significant portion of your day, you'll talk about it...constantly. At least for the first marathon. After that, you realize that no one else cares but you, so you learn to dial it back. So like Paleo, CrossFit, and marathons, let's circle back in a few year as you suggest and see how it's going once the novelty wears off. Because all of the chatter of "minimalism" strikes me as n00bs all fired up about their new "hobby", and they'll quiet down when the new wears off and they want to watch a movie on something bigger than 10".
- madamelic 10y ago
  It gets depressing. I pared down a lot of what I owned simply because I didn't use it and the clutter bothered me, plus I had to move apartments by myself. At first, it was really great. No clutter, only what I needed, super basic life. But then you walk into your apartment where you only have a (simple) bed and desk, maybe a few pieces of clothing on the ground and you feel empty and depressed. It isn't because I want stuff... I actually really don't like buying things (that is another aspect: I have major anxiety around money so I hoard money, which is convenient for a "minimalist". Think "money anorexic") It just feels empty. Like another poster mentioned: it consumes you. You constantly have to consider the space / minimalism implications of buying something. It is weird to describe. Yeah, all of this sounds overly dramatic but I do feel sad when I look at my apartment some times. My partner is pushing me to buy a couch because they don't like laying in my bed when they come over. Also it is a little embarrassing to pull out the sleeping bag and air mattress when I have guests come over...
  - twblalock 10y ago
    Doing the minimalism thing is clearly detrimental to your mental health. You should stop.
    - madamelic 10y ago
      Yeah, it is a little consuming I'll admit. Hoping to be able to relax emotionally once I get a month or two of living expenses built up. Minimalism, I think, is a great aspiration but I personally don't think is something you should try to live as a lifestyle. Time will tell I guess.
      - twblalock 10y ago
        What you should aspire to is a lifestyle that doesn't stress you out or require constant comparisons to an ideal. There is no point aspiring to minimalism because it doesn't fit those criteria for you.
  - hosh 10y ago
    The real purpose of paring down these things is precisely to expose those vulnerabilities and anxieties you might not otherwise have found. If you have not already, I highly recommend you take some meditation practice. This is really about getting to the real you, which may have been obscured by the extra clutter. On your way there, you will see parts of yourself that you don't particularly like. It is no different than moving the couch and finding forgotten dust bunnies of your mind. It is the same when decluttering. I don't know about what other blog posts have written about it. I decluttered in the same way I meditate: the feelings that arises when you contemplate throwing something away are the various stories, narratives, and attachments you have about that particular object. They are coming to the surface as a chance for you to really examine whether it is necessary or not. For example, someone might buy an object to fill up a room, but they are not even aware of the deeper motivation of staving off loneliness. That loneliness does not surface up until something such as decluttering comes up. The internal attachment you have to an external object creates a kind of feedback loop to keep that object in that place, and anchors your memories. Stir up your possessions, and you also stir up your psyche. The koan "do you own these things or do these things own you" still apply. If you are obsessing abut what you buy in the space, then these objects -- or rather, what the lack of objects says about you and what social signals they give to other people owns you. That is confining to your spirit. It's not real freedom.
- amerkhalid 10y ago
  I was accidental semi-minimalist for most of my twenties. I didn't follow any philosophy or even knew about minimalist movement at that time. It was just my natural state. Main things I owned were a laptop, books, TV, PS3, DSLR, TV stand, coffee table, sofa, and a mattress. Space was not an issue for the most part as I lived in Dallas Texas. Even cheapest apartments are huge. In my early 20s, I lived with roommates but later I lived by myself in a huge loft style apartment. Having less stuff is really freeing. It was easy for me to travel, change apartments, let friends stay at my place etc. I had to get creative when I needed something for only a little while. For example, I bought various lenses for my DSLR that I rarely used. So I sold most of them and then in future, I would buy a used lens off Craig's List and then re-sell it after I was done with it. Most of my hobbies didn't involve a lot of tools. Photography, videography, video games, books, painting, running, and of course, programming. Now as a married man with a house, it is really hard to avoid collecting things. I used to sell anything that I didn't use often. I have so many things at home at I rarely touch like guitars, exercise equipment, different kitchen utensils. And to be honest, we are not hoarders, in fact, we still own less stuff than most people we know. It has been 4 years of homeownership and I am still not used to owning so many things. A lot of this clutter actually really bothers me. Many times I go to the kitchen to cook something but cannot find the right pan that I just give up and eat frozen dinner. So I have to say if you are naturally inclined to be minimalist than it would be great for you otherwise you may miss things or feel empty.
- appleiigs 10y ago
  I saw Capt. Scott Kelly speak a few weeks ago regarding his 1 year in space. Sounded like the space station was minimalist experience! He said he sold all his stuff after coming back to Earth. Lived 1 year without it, so he doesn't need it now.
- graeme 10y ago
  It's a shame only the most extreme proponents tend to get traction. I've gotten a lot of value out of minmalist advice, but mostly as a way for clearing space for other, more useful things. You didn't really reply to the parent comment. They said much minimalism is due to people living in small spaces. I live in Montreal, where up until very recently I didn't have that much space. At one point, things were too full. So I systematically reduced my possessions. Sold some, gave others away. What did I do with the extra space? * I bought certain items in bulk. Paper towels, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc, thus reducing my trips to the store * I got more useful things. Over the years I had to add more business equipment. I had space for it based on decluttering. I do periodic declutters whenever things start piling up. Mostly, what happens is something was once useful, but then no longer is. Using the principles people talk about in minimalist posts, I've been able to reduce and better organize my living space. But I still have a decent amount of stuff. It's just on average more useful than it used to be.
- icc97 10y ago
  Leo Babuta [0] has been writing about it [1] for years. [0]: https://zenhabits.net/ [1]: http://mnmlist.com/minimalist-faqs/
crdoconnor 10y ago
It's almost as if they've got a quota of anti-millenial stories to run and a quota of anti-boomer stories to run.

by mrec 10y ago

maxxxxx 10y ago

I just wish they would write about it only a few years after they have started to go minimalist and have actually lived it. There are so many articles who write how great being minimalist is two weeks after they have sold their car or whatever.

bovermyer 10y ago
Conor McMillen does this.
mikestew 10y ago
I've been wondering about this as well. Looking back, I guess I've always been kind "minimalist" (before it was cool, suckers). Liked running because less equipment. Went years without a car in Indianapolis where public transit was such a joke as to be almost non-existent. Seldom keep things around for "sentimental value". I just don't want things hanging around that take up space or need attention unless they serve some regular utility. (And for the record, my wife and I suck at being "minimalist", but we do put up a good fight. But no one's going to look in our garage and mistake us for Buddhist monks.) But you have to keep constantly vigilant. Much like training for a marathon, where every day has at least some portion of it taken up by training, each meal involves making good decisions, and kiss your Sundays goodbye because you won't be doing much after that 20 mile run other than taking a nap. The minimalist weighs every potential purchase, has to figure out to get to that party without a car, has to figure out how to cook supper with a single spork. And like anything that takes up a significant portion of your day, you'll talk about it...constantly. At least for the first marathon. After that, you realize that no one else cares but you, so you learn to dial it back. So like Paleo, CrossFit, and marathons, let's circle back in a few year as you suggest and see how it's going once the novelty wears off. Because all of the chatter of "minimalism" strikes me as n00bs all fired up about their new "hobby", and they'll quiet down when the new wears off and they want to watch a movie on something bigger than 10".
madamelic 10y ago
It gets depressing. I pared down a lot of what I owned simply because I didn't use it and the clutter bothered me, plus I had to move apartments by myself. At first, it was really great. No clutter, only what I needed, super basic life. But then you walk into your apartment where you only have a (simple) bed and desk, maybe a few pieces of clothing on the ground and you feel empty and depressed. It isn't because I want stuff... I actually really don't like buying things (that is another aspect: I have major anxiety around money so I hoard money, which is convenient for a "minimalist". Think "money anorexic") It just feels empty. Like another poster mentioned: it consumes you. You constantly have to consider the space / minimalism implications of buying something. It is weird to describe. Yeah, all of this sounds overly dramatic but I do feel sad when I look at my apartment some times. My partner is pushing me to buy a couch because they don't like laying in my bed when they come over. Also it is a little embarrassing to pull out the sleeping bag and air mattress when I have guests come over...
- twblalock 10y ago
  Doing the minimalism thing is clearly detrimental to your mental health. You should stop.
  - madamelic 10y ago
    Yeah, it is a little consuming I'll admit. Hoping to be able to relax emotionally once I get a month or two of living expenses built up. Minimalism, I think, is a great aspiration but I personally don't think is something you should try to live as a lifestyle. Time will tell I guess.
    - twblalock 10y ago
      What you should aspire to is a lifestyle that doesn't stress you out or require constant comparisons to an ideal. There is no point aspiring to minimalism because it doesn't fit those criteria for you.
- hosh 10y ago
  The real purpose of paring down these things is precisely to expose those vulnerabilities and anxieties you might not otherwise have found. If you have not already, I highly recommend you take some meditation practice. This is really about getting to the real you, which may have been obscured by the extra clutter. On your way there, you will see parts of yourself that you don't particularly like. It is no different than moving the couch and finding forgotten dust bunnies of your mind. It is the same when decluttering. I don't know about what other blog posts have written about it. I decluttered in the same way I meditate: the feelings that arises when you contemplate throwing something away are the various stories, narratives, and attachments you have about that particular object. They are coming to the surface as a chance for you to really examine whether it is necessary or not. For example, someone might buy an object to fill up a room, but they are not even aware of the deeper motivation of staving off loneliness. That loneliness does not surface up until something such as decluttering comes up. The internal attachment you have to an external object creates a kind of feedback loop to keep that object in that place, and anchors your memories. Stir up your possessions, and you also stir up your psyche. The koan "do you own these things or do these things own you" still apply. If you are obsessing abut what you buy in the space, then these objects -- or rather, what the lack of objects says about you and what social signals they give to other people owns you. That is confining to your spirit. It's not real freedom.
amerkhalid 10y ago
I was accidental semi-minimalist for most of my twenties. I didn't follow any philosophy or even knew about minimalist movement at that time. It was just my natural state. Main things I owned were a laptop, books, TV, PS3, DSLR, TV stand, coffee table, sofa, and a mattress. Space was not an issue for the most part as I lived in Dallas Texas. Even cheapest apartments are huge. In my early 20s, I lived with roommates but later I lived by myself in a huge loft style apartment. Having less stuff is really freeing. It was easy for me to travel, change apartments, let friends stay at my place etc. I had to get creative when I needed something for only a little while. For example, I bought various lenses for my DSLR that I rarely used. So I sold most of them and then in future, I would buy a used lens off Craig's List and then re-sell it after I was done with it. Most of my hobbies didn't involve a lot of tools. Photography, videography, video games, books, painting, running, and of course, programming. Now as a married man with a house, it is really hard to avoid collecting things. I used to sell anything that I didn't use often. I have so many things at home at I rarely touch like guitars, exercise equipment, different kitchen utensils. And to be honest, we are not hoarders, in fact, we still own less stuff than most people we know. It has been 4 years of homeownership and I am still not used to owning so many things. A lot of this clutter actually really bothers me. Many times I go to the kitchen to cook something but cannot find the right pan that I just give up and eat frozen dinner. So I have to say if you are naturally inclined to be minimalist than it would be great for you otherwise you may miss things or feel empty.
appleiigs 10y ago
I saw Capt. Scott Kelly speak a few weeks ago regarding his 1 year in space. Sounded like the space station was minimalist experience! He said he sold all his stuff after coming back to Earth. Lived 1 year without it, so he doesn't need it now.
graeme 10y ago
It's a shame only the most extreme proponents tend to get traction. I've gotten a lot of value out of minmalist advice, but mostly as a way for clearing space for other, more useful things. You didn't really reply to the parent comment. They said much minimalism is due to people living in small spaces. I live in Montreal, where up until very recently I didn't have that much space. At one point, things were too full. So I systematically reduced my possessions. Sold some, gave others away. What did I do with the extra space? * I bought certain items in bulk. Paper towels, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc, thus reducing my trips to the store * I got more useful things. Over the years I had to add more business equipment. I had space for it based on decluttering. I do periodic declutters whenever things start piling up. Mostly, what happens is something was once useful, but then no longer is. Using the principles people talk about in minimalist posts, I've been able to reduce and better organize my living space. But I still have a decent amount of stuff. It's just on average more useful than it used to be.
icc97 10y ago
Leo Babuta [0] has been writing about it [1] for years. [0]: https://zenhabits.net/ [1]: http://mnmlist.com/minimalist-faqs/

crdoconnor 10y ago

It's almost as if they've got a quota of anti-millenial stories to run and a quota of anti-boomer stories to run.