4 ms·

Ask Hacker News: Cost of living in Silicon Valley

58 points by Prrometheus 19y ago

I’m trying to get a feel for what a single person’s burn rate would be in the valley. I know the cost of living there is supposed to be among the highest in the US. What can someone in Silicon Valley expect to pay each month in rent, food, utilities, car insurance, and gas?

veeneck 19y ago
When we lived out there, we rented a 2 bedroom townhouse for 3 people. Rent was $2100. Food was ~$500. Public transportation is good out there, so we used that exclusively for travel. And then another $100 for internet and bills. So ~$2700, but you could probably get that down to $2100 for just one person. This was in Mountain View. That's about double what I pay to live in Florida.
- Prrometheus 19y ago
  Finally an advantage to living in DC – $2100 doesn’t sound all that bad to me.
- misterbwong 19y ago
  Interesting. Sounds about the same as the OC.
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
thinkcomp 19y ago
I've lived in Boston, Dallas, Atherton, Mountain View and Palo Alto. Rent is a lot higher the closer you get to Stanford. I live a block away from Stanford in Palo Alto, so rent is pretty high--$3,500 per month for a 3-bedroom house. Utilities vary a lot depending upon where you live; they're typically handled by the municipality. Gas is $3.69 per gallon around the corner from my house. Car insurance depends upon your car and your insurance company. I have to disagree about public transportation, having come from the East Coast. It's godawful. There are five discrete transit systems (BART, Caltrain, MUNI, SamTrans, VTA) that are actually more expensive to use than driving. You really need a car out here. It's double what I paid in Dallas, but I think it's worth it.
- joeguilmette 19y ago
  While it sucks that the transit systems are disconnected, it is still most definitely cheaper to take public transit than to drive. To connect them all, use google transit. The bummer about Bay Area transit isn't the cost, it is inexpensive in relation to driving. The bummer is coverage. If you want to get somewhere in San Jose from Berkeley, it'll take you 3 hours, as opposed to 1.5 hours driving. But yea, I don't own a car, and Google Transit has changed my life. It's soooo much easier to get around now!
abstractbill 19y ago
My wife and I pay $1700/month for a two-bedroom house in Mountain View. I pay $300 each six months to insure an awesome Z3 that I never get to use (I take the train every day - $150/month for a pass between Mountain View and San Francisco). Internet is $60/month, Electric is usually about $50/month. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know how much we spend on food... I would guess about $400/month, but that could be wrong by quite a bit since I don't do the food shopping.
- curi 19y ago
  Electric is significantly more if you keep multiple computers on 24/7.
  - powerflex 19y ago
    I live in a one bedroom apartment in SF, and have 2 mac mini's, a laptop, and two servers - all are on 24/7. Electricity is $20 per month.
    - curi 19y ago
      2 cpu g5, imac, sometimes an old pc or macbook, don't use electricity for much else besides light, varies but often 80-100. in berkeley. i wonder what's causing the large difference. edit: i'm buying this http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-Kill-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-Kill-Electricity-Moni...
      - powerflex 19y ago
        update: Im now at about 300Kwh/month for a bill of $35...
    - curi 19y ago
      >> 0.15 * 5 * 24 * 30 * 0.12 => 64.8 if your 5 computers take 150 watts each and it's 12 cents per kilo-watt hour, then your bill would be $65 they must spend a lot of time asleep or something.
iamelgringo 19y ago
This is something that my wife and I thought a lot about before we moved out here, and we still work hard to keep costs very lean and mean. So, I'll write a book for ya. I've lived in Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Providence, Fresno and now the Bay Area. And, it's the most expensive city we've lived in. There is usually a gentleman's competition ongoing as to what area is more expensive to live in: Bay Area or New York City. I think that Manhattan generally wins as to a specific region, but if compared to New York City as a whole, I think that Silicon Valley probably wins the competition. It's expensive. But, you can make it work for you. It just takes work, and a willingness to do stuff differently than you're used to. If you're moving here, consider Craigslist to be your Bible for rental listings. Every one advertises on Craigslist, even the large corporate apartment complexes. Search around there for a few months. Then use the neighborhood designations that Craigslist uses to research the specific neighborhoods that you're interested in. As to what your burn rate will be in the Valley, it all depends on how you want to live. If you're going to share an apartment with roommates and eat ramen noodle/frankfurter surprise 3 meals a day that will cut costs dramatically. If you want to get your own studio or one bedroom and eat out at Chez Snooteee 7 days a week, that raises prices a lot. Also, where you live matters a great deal in how much you pay for rent. San Francisco and Palo Alto are the two highest rent areas in the Valley. Prices go down the further out you live from there. East Bay prices tend to be quite a bit lower, but commutes can be quite nasty because of having to cross the Bay on one of the bridges. We found San Jose to be a great compromise. It's a nice city, getting around is pretty easy, has a decent little downtown for events/entertainment and rents are pretty reasonable considering the area. And, I commute opposite traffic because I work nights. Food prices in the grocery stores are about 30% higher than we've paid in Boston, although there's ways around that. Safeway.com actually lets you order groceries online, and their prices are exactly the same in store as they are online. (We've researched it). But if you want to get a feel for what your grocery bill will be, save your receipt from your next trip to the grocery store, and create an account and a shopping list at: http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 You can then compare the two and figure out what you'll be spending on groceries at the store. Gas prices are usually 20-30% higher than the rest of the nation, with gas in San Fran usually topping the national price charts. Gas is about $3.50 right now for us in San Jose. Restaurants are anywhere from %30-50 more expensive in the Bay area. After you've done your neighborhood research on Craigslist, look at Yelp.com for restaurants in that area, and look at their menu's. You'll see what I mean. My wife and I routinely drop $50-80 for dinner with a glass of wine at a mid priced restaurant like the Olive Garden. Back East, that'd be $30-50 a dinner. Electric bills are some of the highest in the nation. We rent a 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose, and our electric heating bill for Nov-Fev usually runs between $300-400 a month. If you can rent a place with utilities included, you're in luck. You only need air conditioning for 2-3 weeks out of the year in the South Bay. You probably don't need it in San Fran. Water and trash is $50 a month. Rents go down about %10-20 during winter and around Christmas, and up an additional %10-20 during the summer. So, if you move out here, you can get the cheapest rents in January or early December. It's a terrible time to move, but it really makes a difference when your paying $1800 for a 3 bed 2 bath house as opposed to $2400. Cable and Internet are comparable to %20 higher than elsewhere. If you can, get a place with utilities included. It's worth the extra money in rent. Utilities out here are expensive. Public transportation stinks compared to Boston, New York or Chicago. People out here are thrilled that they can occasionally ride it to an event down town. It's rare that people use it to commute every day. However, people in San Fran can get by without a car. You can't in the rest of the area. A new perk some of the larger companies (Google, VMware) are offering is shuttle service to and from work. If you can land a job with a perk like that it'll save you $100-200 a month in gas depending on your car. We rent that 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose for about $2100 a month. It was more expensive to rent a house, but it gives us a lot more room for stuff, which ends up making in more economical for us in the long run. Here's what we did: We've turned our garage in to a mini warehouse lined with shop shelves, and we shop in bulk at CostCo (www.CostCo.com). I mean ++shop_in_bulk++. We buy 4-5 months of staples, paper goods, meat, office supplies at CostCo. We also have 2 freezers to store meat, prepared meals, etc... And, we're able to rent out a room to family. Yeah, it's a little weird, but it works for us. There is great shopping in the area. Ikea is for all your furniture and low end household stuff. You can get great deals at Fry's electronics if you watch their sales papers. And, for everything else, shop at the Gilroy Outlets. They are actual outlets that sell overstock and seconds. They really are some of the best outlets in Northern California, and you can get some amazing deals on great products. Because of that, we actually pay less for household goods and clothes than we did living anywhere else. All that being said, moving here is the hardest part financially. After you get here, things even out a bit, and salaries are high enough that they generally compensate for the high cost of living. Good luck.
wheels 19y ago
Similar question I'd been thinking of posting (I'll start a new thread if it doesn't get enough traction here): How about Boston / Cambridge? Potential requirements would be: at least two separate rooms, which can be tiny (basically a bed and a desk in each), and it'd be fine if they're in a shared house, plus broadband. Is $1000/month doable for that?
- smopburrito 19y ago
  that is doable near boston/cambridge, exclusive of utilities. if you are willing to live in somerville (parts of which are effectively cambridge due to its shape) or even medford, definitely. compared to SF/SV, there is proportionally a much larger student population in Boston/Cambridge, so supply/demand/price varies with the academic calendar more than in other places.
tachibana 19y ago
I'm a professional apartment manager in the Silicon Valley area. We currently (Feb 2008) have 2-bed/1-bath apartments renting for $1500/mo and 1-bed/1-bath apartments renting for $1100/mo. Water and power typically runs in the $100/person-month range.
- ssanders82 19y ago
  Can you be more specific on location?
  - tachibana 19y ago
    Around Homestead and Stelling (Cupertino/Sunnyvale). Within walking distance are - Safeway - Longs Drugs - Loehmann's - McDonalds/Starbucks/Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut - near I280 and CA-85.
- jdavid 19y ago
  a link to the 2 bedroom? we are moving out in april/may and we are looking for a 2 bedroom.
  - tachibana 19y ago
    We just rented out our last room this weekend. If you're interested, I can send you a link when another unit opens up. Unfortunately, the rental market where I work is such that vacancies don't stay vacant for very long.
tokipin 19y ago
when i was living in san jose in a... what those artsy-sounding things called... it was about $1000 a month. rent was $700, everything else like utilities added up to about $200. starbucks/jamba juice every day added up to $100 >.< i lived in the outskirts of SJ i believe. ebay was a couple blocks away. i miss the bay area :(
bgutierrez 19y ago
Living in San Francisco: $1000 is the starting price for rent on a decent studio and can get as high as you want, depending on the neighborhood. Food can be cheap enough if you shop at Trader Joe's and eat out at Tommy's Joynt. (Say, $300 a month.) I like to eat out more often and spend $600-$700 on food each month for me and my girlfriend. We don't go out drinking very often, but when we do, it's easily $100 a night for several drinks, pizza, and a cab ride home. I don't own a car, but when I did it was $150/month for a spot in a garage and $40 for parking tickets. Public transportation is great and the city has a strong bicycle advocacy group, so that's what I choose. I highly recommend living in the city if you aren't bothered by crowds, and there are plenty of software companies here. (For anyone that is a PHP and JavaScript pro, I can pass on a resume to the hiring manager here at Trulia.) Let me know if you have any questions!
jdavid 19y ago
So we have been doing some exploring after another investor in the midwest told us to just move to the valley for the networking alone. he may be right. after a few visits, i can say that living in SF, and playing in SF is just fine without a car. SF will be expensive like living in the loop in Chicago, or in some parts of Manhattan, heck thats what you pay for being in the center of it. If you are coming from the suburbs you are in for a shock if you move to SF. if you live out of SF, you will want a car/ or even better a moped or bike. public transportation is nice, but it adds up and is time consuming waiting for stuff. what i love about it is it runs late, so a night out can be had without driving into SF. right now in MKE i am paying $770 a month as part of a 2 bedroom that is $1540 a month. For that we have 2 bedrooms, 1800sqft, a backyard, and a garage. In the valley i expect to have much less, but it still seems like i can get a 2 bedroom for ~1500-~1800 a month, or a 3 bedroom for 2100-3000 a month. i think rent is actually fairly reasonable considering the average median incomes and the number of people with degrees. starbucks internet will cost you $40 a month, where in MKE i get cafe wifi all over the city for $22 a month. i might have to give in and get Att uverse internet in the valley so we can roam into a starbucks for free. As far as food goes, i found that palo alto, and just outside of san jose are craazy expensive. in MKE a quiznos sandwich and drink might cost you 8$ but in that area, we paid $12-$13 50% more. I found food in SF cheaper. I do not know about the grocery stores, but its pretty hard to meet people for lunch and or coffee in your home, so I think Food may have its larges sticker shock. as for location, we found that 90% of the events that we want to go to are in the sunnyvale, palo alto, and north/west san jose area. so it makes more sense for us to live there, well unless we are going to date...... there seems to be a lot of lovely ladies in Downtown SF on a daily basis, in fact most of them will smile back. It's kinda rare for a city to have that quality. So I would rank SF very high on women being approachable there. Our plan for our 4 guys (1 of which is married) is to get a 2 bedroom with a great couch for the 3rd guy, and a when the married guy is in town, he can have a hidden mattress or an inflatable one. When it makes sense, we will get 1 more apartment come fall 08 or something.
- menloparkbum 19y ago
  The problem with dating in the bay area is there is a 10:1 male to female ratio. The women are smiling at you because your fly is open.
lurker 19y ago
Here's the only answer you need: It doesn't matter. You can make it work. You're a motivated developer/entrepreneur. You'll be fine. Work whichever variables (roommates, location, dining, etc.) you want to meet your budget, but this town is geared to you. You might spend a lot, but you'll make a lot too.
yzeli 19y ago
You may want to compare the COLA (cost of living adjustments) between your current area of residence and the place you're expecting to move. I've moved a few times and that numbers seems to make sense in long term.
sgoraya 19y ago
I would recommend east bay if you do not mind the commute / public transportation; Rents are definitely cheaper on the east side; Though if you would like to be near palo alto and do not necessarily mind a tough neighborhood, try East Palo Alto (The difference crossing over the 101 on University Ave. is pretty drastic, as are the rents) I've lived in downtown San Jose and Berkeley - SJ is cheaper, but I prefer Berkeley because of the weather, college atmosphere and good looking women (mostly ;) Cost of lving (I lived alone) SJ rent for 1 bedroom: $1,350 // Berkeley rent for 2 bedroom: $1,850 (Both included all utilities except electricity) Food: Dont skimp on food or toilet paper! ;) I like to cook, so I prepared my own food for the most part to keep costs relatively cheap - ex: cooking a nice cut of tri-tip with veggies can last a few days, etc. $200-250/mo Internets: ~$70/mo for static IP Extracurricular: $250/mo Gas/Transportation: Variable depending on whether you drive or bus / Bart
kirubakaran 19y ago
Please poke holes in this idea: 1. Save up some dollars 2. Move to a city in India that has good infrastructure (Coimbatore is the city I have in mind) =$1200 3. Release and iterate till you get good traction =$200/month/person 4. Move to Silicon Valley do the mating dance etc =$1200 Personal burn rate while at India would be as low as $200 per month without compromising on any comfort. After success, I plan to buy a big house there where visiting hackers can stay for free :-)
- sgoraya 19y ago
  Actually a fantastic idea for the adventurous - The only thing I have issue with in the Indian sub-continent is the finicky electricity infrastructure - During my last few visits, the power went down randomly throughout the day, especially in the, very hot, summers; Granted some days are better than others, but if you can put up with it, the cost of living is a fraction of what it is here.
  - kirubakaran 19y ago
    Such hassles can be easily abstracted away for, say, $25 a month I suppose (example: a bank of generators far away)
    - rms 19y ago
      Hmm. Are you saying that electricity in India is sufficiently deregulated that there is competition for backup electricity suppliers?
      - kirubakaran 19y ago
        No, I meant that it is inexpensive to set up your own backup. By 'far away', I didn't mean miles away... I meant far enough that you can't hear the noise.
        rms 19y ago
        Upvoted!
menloparkbum 19y ago
san francisco - rent $1000 (unheard of lofty studio thing. ) - phone: $50 - internet connection: $50 - muni pass: $45 - food, entertainment, occasional car share: $300 personally about 1500 a month. no car. I'm cheap... you can obviously spend huge amounts of money on going to expensive restaurants, electronics, concerts, booze, cocaine, etc. you will either be sharing for $700-$1100 a month or renting a studio/1BR for $1200-$2000/m. rent is the largest expense. a car will cost at least $500/m even if the car is paid for and you hardly drive (parking: $150, insurance $50, gas $3/gallon, parking violations: $200)
tlrobinson 19y ago
Living in the Bay Area without a car is fine if all you do is commute between home and work on public transportation... but if you're trying to start a company, raise money, etc, I couldn't imagine doing it without a car.
joeguilmette 19y ago
If you're lucky enough to work close to a BART stop, you're going to save yourself about $1000/month. Rent a room in a house close to any BART station. Berkeley is nice and cheap (it's all relative), as is the peninsula Redwood City and up, until you get to SF. The peninsula isn't actually connected to BART, it only runs south to Millbrae. You can, however, use Caltrain, which runs from san jose to sf, with BART connections in Millbrae. The Bay Area's public transit is pretty bad, but if you're lucky enough to live and work near BART or Caltrain, you'll be fine and it'll actually work quite well. Great tips for affordable, sane living: -Use BART/Caltrain whenever possible -Know Caltrains somewhat limited schedule (dont get stuck in Millbrae at 9pm) -GO TO THE FARMER'S MARKET. The food is a bit more expensive, but is lightyears above local markets (Safeway, etc) in quality. --The Bay is very close to one of the world's largest and best agricultural systems, and the only way to benefit from that relationship is the Farmer's Market. Safeway's food is nasty in comparison. Every town has a market at least once a week. --And it's not just produce. They have a lot of local meats, eggs, and restaurant booths too. All sorts of great stuff. It is marginally more expensive, but just do yourself a favor and buy a tomato when they are in season and compare to Safeway. Yes, they are $1/lb more, but, it doesn't matter and you'll see why. -Use Yelp to find good cheap restaurants. If you like ethnic food (asian, indian, etc) you'll eat for cheap and love every second of it. There is never, ever, a reason to eat at place like the Olive Garden or Chevy's. EVER. EVVVERRRR. Between the Farmer's Market and cheap foreign food, you'll eat food better than almost anywhere in the US.
- ardit33 19y ago
  excalty about the food part, and going to the dude going Olive Garden? WTF? I imagine it is ok to go to Olive Garden when you are in a place in middle america that has only chain restaurant around, but the bay area offers so much more in authentic multi-cultural cuisine, most of them family run. Farmers market are awesome, and to get good deals go there late, around 2pm-ish, when the farmers are wraping their stuff, they'd rather give a lot of their food for half the price then bring it back. If you live in SF, there is a awesome small grocery (only fruit and vegies) store at 4th and Geary. Very fresh, and very very cheap. Half the price you get in your local safeway/lucky's/calmart. Ah, and stay away from wholefoods. Horribly overpriced.
bps4484 19y ago
I haven't seen anyone mention taxes in the equation, and if you're from a state with low state income tax and sales tax, that can really add up. Granted sales take may be already in people estimates prices, but income tax is progressive and gets as high as 9.3% past 43k of income.
- curi 19y ago
  Dodge sales tax by buying everything from Amazon.
barrkel 19y ago
All I can say is, people moaning about how expensive the valley is haven't lived in London, especially at today's exchange rate. A single-floor flat in a house with 3 general rooms, a bathroom and a kitchen (allocate rooms as you like to make bedrooms), in somewhere not terribly appealing (but not nastyville or dangerous either) costs around $2400/m. About 1 hour commute to the city centre via tube. If you want to drive into the city during business hours, it'll cost you $16 just for congestion charge. If you drive a big car (i.e. American-style SUV etc., based on emissions), that'll go up to $50 a day soon enough. You basically can't get non-fast-food meals for less than $20 a head, to eat something fairly decent will cost quite a bit more. Every time I visit the valley, I'm amazed at how cheap everything is.

58 points by Prrometheus 19y ago

veeneck 19y ago

When we lived out there, we rented a 2 bedroom townhouse for 3 people. Rent was $2100. Food was ~$500. Public transportation is good out there, so we used that exclusively for travel. And then another $100 for internet and bills. So ~$2700, but you could probably get that down to $2100 for just one person. This was in Mountain View. That's about double what I pay to live in Florida.

Prrometheus 19y ago
Finally an advantage to living in DC – $2100 doesn’t sound all that bad to me.
misterbwong 19y ago
Interesting. Sounds about the same as the OC.

deleted 19y ago

[deleted]

thinkcomp 19y ago

I've lived in Boston, Dallas, Atherton, Mountain View and Palo Alto. Rent is a lot higher the closer you get to Stanford. I live a block away from Stanford in Palo Alto, so rent is pretty high--$3,500 per month for a 3-bedroom house. Utilities vary a lot depending upon where you live; they're typically handled by the municipality. Gas is $3.69 per gallon around the corner from my house. Car insurance depends upon your car and your insurance company. I have to disagree about public transportation, having come from the East Coast. It's godawful. There are five discrete transit systems (BART, Caltrain, MUNI, SamTrans, VTA) that are actually more expensive to use than driving. You really need a car out here. It's double what I paid in Dallas, but I think it's worth it.

joeguilmette 19y ago
While it sucks that the transit systems are disconnected, it is still most definitely cheaper to take public transit than to drive. To connect them all, use google transit. The bummer about Bay Area transit isn't the cost, it is inexpensive in relation to driving. The bummer is coverage. If you want to get somewhere in San Jose from Berkeley, it'll take you 3 hours, as opposed to 1.5 hours driving. But yea, I don't own a car, and Google Transit has changed my life. It's soooo much easier to get around now!

abstractbill 19y ago

My wife and I pay $1700/month for a two-bedroom house in Mountain View. I pay $300 each six months to insure an awesome Z3 that I never get to use (I take the train every day - $150/month for a pass between Mountain View and San Francisco). Internet is $60/month, Electric is usually about $50/month. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know how much we spend on food... I would guess about $400/month, but that could be wrong by quite a bit since I don't do the food shopping.

curi 19y ago
Electric is significantly more if you keep multiple computers on 24/7.
- powerflex 19y ago
  I live in a one bedroom apartment in SF, and have 2 mac mini's, a laptop, and two servers - all are on 24/7. Electricity is $20 per month.
  - curi 19y ago
    2 cpu g5, imac, sometimes an old pc or macbook, don't use electricity for much else besides light, varies but often 80-100. in berkeley. i wonder what's causing the large difference. edit: i'm buying this http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-Kill-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-Kill-Electricity-Moni...
    - powerflex 19y ago
      update: Im now at about 300Kwh/month for a bill of $35...
  - curi 19y ago
    >> 0.15 * 5 * 24 * 30 * 0.12 => 64.8 if your 5 computers take 150 watts each and it's 12 cents per kilo-watt hour, then your bill would be $65 they must spend a lot of time asleep or something.

iamelgringo 19y ago

This is something that my wife and I thought a lot about before we moved out here, and we still work hard to keep costs very lean and mean. So, I'll write a book for ya. I've lived in Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Providence, Fresno and now the Bay Area. And, it's the most expensive city we've lived in. There is usually a gentleman's competition ongoing as to what area is more expensive to live in: Bay Area or New York City. I think that Manhattan generally wins as to a specific region, but if compared to New York City as a whole, I think that Silicon Valley probably wins the competition. It's expensive. But, you can make it work for you. It just takes work, and a willingness to do stuff differently than you're used to. If you're moving here, consider Craigslist to be your Bible for rental listings. Every one advertises on Craigslist, even the large corporate apartment complexes. Search around there for a few months. Then use the neighborhood designations that Craigslist uses to research the specific neighborhoods that you're interested in. As to what your burn rate will be in the Valley, it all depends on how you want to live. If you're going to share an apartment with roommates and eat ramen noodle/frankfurter surprise 3 meals a day that will cut costs dramatically. If you want to get your own studio or one bedroom and eat out at Chez Snooteee 7 days a week, that raises prices a lot. Also, where you live matters a great deal in how much you pay for rent. San Francisco and Palo Alto are the two highest rent areas in the Valley. Prices go down the further out you live from there. East Bay prices tend to be quite a bit lower, but commutes can be quite nasty because of having to cross the Bay on one of the bridges. We found San Jose to be a great compromise. It's a nice city, getting around is pretty easy, has a decent little downtown for events/entertainment and rents are pretty reasonable considering the area. And, I commute opposite traffic because I work nights. Food prices in the grocery stores are about 30% higher than we've paid in Boston, although there's ways around that. Safeway.com actually lets you order groceries online, and their prices are exactly the same in store as they are online. (We've researched it). But if you want to get a feel for what your grocery bill will be, save your receipt from your next trip to the grocery store, and create an account and a shopping list at: http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 You can then compare the two and figure out what you'll be spending on groceries at the store. Gas prices are usually 20-30% higher than the rest of the nation, with gas in San Fran usually topping the national price charts. Gas is about $3.50 right now for us in San Jose. Restaurants are anywhere from %30-50 more expensive in the Bay area. After you've done your neighborhood research on Craigslist, look at Yelp.com for restaurants in that area, and look at their menu's. You'll see what I mean. My wife and I routinely drop $50-80 for dinner with a glass of wine at a mid priced restaurant like the Olive Garden. Back East, that'd be $30-50 a dinner. Electric bills are some of the highest in the nation. We rent a 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose, and our electric heating bill for Nov-Fev usually runs between $300-400 a month. If you can rent a place with utilities included, you're in luck. You only need air conditioning for 2-3 weeks out of the year in the South Bay. You probably don't need it in San Fran. Water and trash is $50 a month. Rents go down about %10-20 during winter and around Christmas, and up an additional %10-20 during the summer. So, if you move out here, you can get the cheapest rents in January or early December. It's a terrible time to move, but it really makes a difference when your paying $1800 for a 3 bed 2 bath house as opposed to $2400. Cable and Internet are comparable to %20 higher than elsewhere. If you can, get a place with utilities included. It's worth the extra money in rent. Utilities out here are expensive. Public transportation stinks compared to Boston, New York or Chicago. People out here are thrilled that they can occasionally ride it to an event down town. It's rare that people use it to commute every day. However, people in San Fran can get by without a car. You can't in the rest of the area. A new perk some of the larger companies (Google, VMware) are offering is shuttle service to and from work. If you can land a job with a perk like that it'll save you $100-200 a month in gas depending on your car. We rent that 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose for about $2100 a month. It was more expensive to rent a house, but it gives us a lot more room for stuff, which ends up making in more economical for us in the long run. Here's what we did: We've turned our garage in to a mini warehouse lined with shop shelves, and we shop in bulk at CostCo (www.CostCo.com). I mean ++shop_in_bulk++. We buy 4-5 months of staples, paper goods, meat, office supplies at CostCo. We also have 2 freezers to store meat, prepared meals, etc... And, we're able to rent out a room to family. Yeah, it's a little weird, but it works for us. There is great shopping in the area. Ikea is for all your furniture and low end household stuff. You can get great deals at Fry's electronics if you watch their sales papers. And, for everything else, shop at the Gilroy Outlets. They are actual outlets that sell overstock and seconds. They really are some of the best outlets in Northern California, and you can get some amazing deals on great products. Because of that, we actually pay less for household goods and clothes than we did living anywhere else. All that being said, moving here is the hardest part financially. After you get here, things even out a bit, and salaries are high enough that they generally compensate for the high cost of living. Good luck.

wheels 19y ago

Similar question I'd been thinking of posting (I'll start a new thread if it doesn't get enough traction here): How about Boston / Cambridge? Potential requirements would be: at least two separate rooms, which can be tiny (basically a bed and a desk in each), and it'd be fine if they're in a shared house, plus broadband. Is $1000/month doable for that?

smopburrito 19y ago
that is doable near boston/cambridge, exclusive of utilities. if you are willing to live in somerville (parts of which are effectively cambridge due to its shape) or even medford, definitely. compared to SF/SV, there is proportionally a much larger student population in Boston/Cambridge, so supply/demand/price varies with the academic calendar more than in other places.

tachibana 19y ago

I'm a professional apartment manager in the Silicon Valley area. We currently (Feb 2008) have 2-bed/1-bath apartments renting for $1500/mo and 1-bed/1-bath apartments renting for $1100/mo. Water and power typically runs in the $100/person-month range.

ssanders82 19y ago
Can you be more specific on location?
- tachibana 19y ago
  Around Homestead and Stelling (Cupertino/Sunnyvale). Within walking distance are - Safeway - Longs Drugs - Loehmann's - McDonalds/Starbucks/Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut - near I280 and CA-85.
jdavid 19y ago
a link to the 2 bedroom? we are moving out in april/may and we are looking for a 2 bedroom.
- tachibana 19y ago
  We just rented out our last room this weekend. If you're interested, I can send you a link when another unit opens up. Unfortunately, the rental market where I work is such that vacancies don't stay vacant for very long.

tokipin 19y ago

when i was living in san jose in a... what those artsy-sounding things called... it was about $1000 a month. rent was $700, everything else like utilities added up to about $200. starbucks/jamba juice every day added up to $100 >.< i lived in the outskirts of SJ i believe. ebay was a couple blocks away. i miss the bay area :(

bgutierrez 19y ago

Living in San Francisco: $1000 is the starting price for rent on a decent studio and can get as high as you want, depending on the neighborhood. Food can be cheap enough if you shop at Trader Joe's and eat out at Tommy's Joynt. (Say, $300 a month.) I like to eat out more often and spend $600-$700 on food each month for me and my girlfriend. We don't go out drinking very often, but when we do, it's easily $100 a night for several drinks, pizza, and a cab ride home. I don't own a car, but when I did it was $150/month for a spot in a garage and $40 for parking tickets. Public transportation is great and the city has a strong bicycle advocacy group, so that's what I choose. I highly recommend living in the city if you aren't bothered by crowds, and there are plenty of software companies here. (For anyone that is a PHP and JavaScript pro, I can pass on a resume to the hiring manager here at Trulia.) Let me know if you have any questions!

jdavid 19y ago

So we have been doing some exploring after another investor in the midwest told us to just move to the valley for the networking alone. he may be right. after a few visits, i can say that living in SF, and playing in SF is just fine without a car. SF will be expensive like living in the loop in Chicago, or in some parts of Manhattan, heck thats what you pay for being in the center of it. If you are coming from the suburbs you are in for a shock if you move to SF. if you live out of SF, you will want a car/ or even better a moped or bike. public transportation is nice, but it adds up and is time consuming waiting for stuff. what i love about it is it runs late, so a night out can be had without driving into SF. right now in MKE i am paying $770 a month as part of a 2 bedroom that is $1540 a month. For that we have 2 bedrooms, 1800sqft, a backyard, and a garage. In the valley i expect to have much less, but it still seems like i can get a 2 bedroom for ~1500-~1800 a month, or a 3 bedroom for 2100-3000 a month. i think rent is actually fairly reasonable considering the average median incomes and the number of people with degrees. starbucks internet will cost you $40 a month, where in MKE i get cafe wifi all over the city for $22 a month. i might have to give in and get Att uverse internet in the valley so we can roam into a starbucks for free. As far as food goes, i found that palo alto, and just outside of san jose are craazy expensive. in MKE a quiznos sandwich and drink might cost you 8$ but in that area, we paid $12-$13 50% more. I found food in SF cheaper. I do not know about the grocery stores, but its pretty hard to meet people for lunch and or coffee in your home, so I think Food may have its larges sticker shock. as for location, we found that 90% of the events that we want to go to are in the sunnyvale, palo alto, and north/west san jose area. so it makes more sense for us to live there, well unless we are going to date...... there seems to be a lot of lovely ladies in Downtown SF on a daily basis, in fact most of them will smile back. It's kinda rare for a city to have that quality. So I would rank SF very high on women being approachable there. Our plan for our 4 guys (1 of which is married) is to get a 2 bedroom with a great couch for the 3rd guy, and a when the married guy is in town, he can have a hidden mattress or an inflatable one. When it makes sense, we will get 1 more apartment come fall 08 or something.

menloparkbum 19y ago
The problem with dating in the bay area is there is a 10:1 male to female ratio. The women are smiling at you because your fly is open.

lurker 19y ago

Here's the only answer you need: It doesn't matter. You can make it work. You're a motivated developer/entrepreneur. You'll be fine. Work whichever variables (roommates, location, dining, etc.) you want to meet your budget, but this town is geared to you. You might spend a lot, but you'll make a lot too.

yzeli 19y ago

You may want to compare the COLA (cost of living adjustments) between your current area of residence and the place you're expecting to move. I've moved a few times and that numbers seems to make sense in long term.

sgoraya 19y ago

I would recommend east bay if you do not mind the commute / public transportation; Rents are definitely cheaper on the east side; Though if you would like to be near palo alto and do not necessarily mind a tough neighborhood, try East Palo Alto (The difference crossing over the 101 on University Ave. is pretty drastic, as are the rents) I've lived in downtown San Jose and Berkeley - SJ is cheaper, but I prefer Berkeley because of the weather, college atmosphere and good looking women (mostly ;) Cost of lving (I lived alone) SJ rent for 1 bedroom: $1,350 // Berkeley rent for 2 bedroom: $1,850 (Both included all utilities except electricity) Food: Dont skimp on food or toilet paper! ;) I like to cook, so I prepared my own food for the most part to keep costs relatively cheap - ex: cooking a nice cut of tri-tip with veggies can last a few days, etc. $200-250/mo Internets: ~$70/mo for static IP Extracurricular: $250/mo Gas/Transportation: Variable depending on whether you drive or bus / Bart

kirubakaran 19y ago

Please poke holes in this idea: 1. Save up some dollars 2. Move to a city in India that has good infrastructure (Coimbatore is the city I have in mind) =$1200 3. Release and iterate till you get good traction =$200/month/person 4. Move to Silicon Valley do the mating dance etc =$1200 Personal burn rate while at India would be as low as $200 per month without compromising on any comfort. After success, I plan to buy a big house there where visiting hackers can stay for free :-)

sgoraya 19y ago
Actually a fantastic idea for the adventurous - The only thing I have issue with in the Indian sub-continent is the finicky electricity infrastructure - During my last few visits, the power went down randomly throughout the day, especially in the, very hot, summers; Granted some days are better than others, but if you can put up with it, the cost of living is a fraction of what it is here.
- kirubakaran 19y ago
  Such hassles can be easily abstracted away for, say, $25 a month I suppose (example: a bank of generators far away)
  - rms 19y ago
    Hmm. Are you saying that electricity in India is sufficiently deregulated that there is competition for backup electricity suppliers?
    - kirubakaran 19y ago
      No, I meant that it is inexpensive to set up your own backup. By 'far away', I didn't mean miles away... I meant far enough that you can't hear the noise.
      - rms 19y ago
        Upvoted!

menloparkbum 19y ago

san francisco - rent $1000 (unheard of lofty studio thing. ) - phone: $50 - internet connection: $50 - muni pass: $45 - food, entertainment, occasional car share: $300 personally about 1500 a month. no car. I'm cheap... you can obviously spend huge amounts of money on going to expensive restaurants, electronics, concerts, booze, cocaine, etc. you will either be sharing for $700-$1100 a month or renting a studio/1BR for $1200-$2000/m. rent is the largest expense. a car will cost at least $500/m even if the car is paid for and you hardly drive (parking: $150, insurance $50, gas $3/gallon, parking violations: $200)

tlrobinson 19y ago

Living in the Bay Area without a car is fine if all you do is commute between home and work on public transportation... but if you're trying to start a company, raise money, etc, I couldn't imagine doing it without a car.

joeguilmette 19y ago

If you're lucky enough to work close to a BART stop, you're going to save yourself about $1000/month. Rent a room in a house close to any BART station. Berkeley is nice and cheap (it's all relative), as is the peninsula Redwood City and up, until you get to SF. The peninsula isn't actually connected to BART, it only runs south to Millbrae. You can, however, use Caltrain, which runs from san jose to sf, with BART connections in Millbrae. The Bay Area's public transit is pretty bad, but if you're lucky enough to live and work near BART or Caltrain, you'll be fine and it'll actually work quite well. Great tips for affordable, sane living: -Use BART/Caltrain whenever possible -Know Caltrains somewhat limited schedule (dont get stuck in Millbrae at 9pm) -GO TO THE FARMER'S MARKET. The food is a bit more expensive, but is lightyears above local markets (Safeway, etc) in quality. --The Bay is very close to one of the world's largest and best agricultural systems, and the only way to benefit from that relationship is the Farmer's Market. Safeway's food is nasty in comparison. Every town has a market at least once a week. --And it's not just produce. They have a lot of local meats, eggs, and restaurant booths too. All sorts of great stuff. It is marginally more expensive, but just do yourself a favor and buy a tomato when they are in season and compare to Safeway. Yes, they are $1/lb more, but, it doesn't matter and you'll see why. -Use Yelp to find good cheap restaurants. If you like ethnic food (asian, indian, etc) you'll eat for cheap and love every second of it. There is never, ever, a reason to eat at place like the Olive Garden or Chevy's. EVER. EVVVERRRR. Between the Farmer's Market and cheap foreign food, you'll eat food better than almost anywhere in the US.

ardit33 19y ago
excalty about the food part, and going to the dude going Olive Garden? WTF? I imagine it is ok to go to Olive Garden when you are in a place in middle america that has only chain restaurant around, but the bay area offers so much more in authentic multi-cultural cuisine, most of them family run. Farmers market are awesome, and to get good deals go there late, around 2pm-ish, when the farmers are wraping their stuff, they'd rather give a lot of their food for half the price then bring it back. If you live in SF, there is a awesome small grocery (only fruit and vegies) store at 4th and Geary. Very fresh, and very very cheap. Half the price you get in your local safeway/lucky's/calmart. Ah, and stay away from wholefoods. Horribly overpriced.

bps4484 19y ago

I haven't seen anyone mention taxes in the equation, and if you're from a state with low state income tax and sales tax, that can really add up. Granted sales take may be already in people estimates prices, but income tax is progressive and gets as high as 9.3% past 43k of income.

curi 19y ago
Dodge sales tax by buying everything from Amazon.

barrkel 19y ago

All I can say is, people moaning about how expensive the valley is haven't lived in London, especially at today's exchange rate. A single-floor flat in a house with 3 general rooms, a bathroom and a kitchen (allocate rooms as you like to make bedrooms), in somewhere not terribly appealing (but not nastyville or dangerous either) costs around $2400/m. About 1 hour commute to the city centre via tube. If you want to drive into the city during business hours, it'll cost you $16 just for congestion charge. If you drive a big car (i.e. American-style SUV etc., based on emissions), that'll go up to $50 a day soon enough. You basically can't get non-fast-food meals for less than $20 a head, to eat something fairly decent will cost quite a bit more. Every time I visit the valley, I'm amazed at how cheap everything is.