8 ms·

Pubs and temples can be a bit similar spaces, but this seems great in that it is not connected to a religion or alcohol consumption. I guess this is what cafes

by bemmu 10y ago

Pubs and temples can be a bit similar spaces, but this seems great in that it is not connected to a religion or alcohol consumption. I guess this is what cafes are could be like, but somehow they have turned out to be places where you are expected to keep to yourself.

CalChris 10y ago
That wasn't always the case. Before WIFI and laptops, cafes could be pretty crowded and social.
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  I am getting flashbacks of those days. It was so nice to walk into a Starbucks, and not see the chorus of people staring into their devices. The smart phone is looking like The Adult Pacifier. I'm getting old, but I remember social anxiety. I might have been that person who pulled out the phone?
  - gkya 10y ago
    Oh glad I have showdead on, this comment was killed! Sadly now I see quite a bit dead comments that shouldn't be. Diversity of ideas shouldn't be left out in crossfire in a fight against spammers and trolls.
  - farnsworth 10y ago
    When was this magic time when people constantly made friends with strangers in public? I remember that picture comparing the line of people staring at their smart phones to a group of people in the 1920's separately staring at their newspapers in public. Same people, same impulses, different day. Talking to people older than me, they often seem to say that a timeless feature of living in cities is that you try to pretend that the masses around you aren't there.
    - parennoob 10y ago
      I would say it was about five-something years ago. You weren't expected to have a smartphone that coddled you like a baby, and people would be more willing to help you out. Example – I was in New York by myself, and without a smart phone. I had to find my way around with maps + asking people. I ended up talking to quite a few interesting people, and hanging out with a stranger as we both were going the same way to a popular landmark. Today the iPhone in my pocket completely replaces all of those interactions, since I can (and am supposed to be able to) map my way to absolutely anywhere in NYC.
- swang 10y ago
  yes coffeehouses/cafes use to be where all the intellectuals gathered to discuss news and gossip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_17th_and_18th_centuries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_17...
- heleph 10y ago
  I met many of my local friends in a cafe here. We all have small kids, which give you a very easy opportunity to talk to people you don't know and make it difficult to spend time with a phone or laptop. After four years of living in our town with kids, I almost always bump into people I know when we are out and about. I've never been so connected to the local community where I live before and I really love it. :)
- pmlnr 10y ago
  Especially in the Austro-Hungarian Empire where even one of the public uprisings is originated from coffee houses.
farnsworth 10y ago
I was raised going to church but stopped in college, and I really miss the community. There's absolutely nothing like it that I've found in the secular world. It almost makes me want to 'fake it' and join a church again, just to be around such kind and welcoming people so often. And it's not just the social part of the community, or the moral lessons, although I liked both of those things - a church gives you an entire framework for your life. What's a secular wedding? A secular funeral? How do your kids get involved in the community outside of the public school system (Boy Scouts is hardly secular) and how do you celebrate their coming of age? What are your standing plans for Wednesday night and Sunday morning? We have to reinvent all these things from scratch when we're not involved with a church, and people do that, but I've never seen such an in-depth and positive out-of-the-box experience as what a church provides. They've been optimizing this stuff for literally millennia. And I think that society is ripe for a group that will provide all of this, while not also trying to tell us about spirits doing magic tricks. And if you think about it that way, then the "this is where the world comes from" part of religion is almost a sideshow to the "here's a community and framework for your life" part, and yet it's what people focus on and what turns people away.
- ivv 10y ago
  This is what gyms have become for many. I remember seeing a graph showing the decline in church attendance coinciding with the rise in gym memberships.
  - farnsworth 10y ago
    I think that gyms can scratch a certain itch in that arena, but aren't nearly as comprehensive as what a church provides. Also I hoped for that when I started at a small yoga studio, but nobody really talked to anybody else there, as far as I saw, and I didn't make any lasting connections.
    - ldarcyftw 10y ago
      A small yoga/acro studio I attended had after-class snacks and Saturday/Sunday activities. It depends on the owner level of involvement I assume.
apatters 10y ago
I think to socialize with random other individuals most people need alcohol or a pretense - pubs provide the former, temples provide the latter. There are societies where this concept is pretty foreign. I live in Thailand and when I tell Thai friends that foreigners often sit down at a pub and talk to complete strangers, many are quite surprised.
- cableshaft 10y ago
  For me, it really helps if I have a pretense like you say, but for me that pretense is playing games. Pool, darts, trivia, role playing games, board games (the biggest one for me right now), scavenger hunts, murder mysteries, even karaoke I can treat kind of like a game. Playing or following sports (games) can serve as that pretense also, although I don't follow them very closely personally (although it's impossible to avoid Cubs mania in Chicago right now :) Games have helped me be around strangers and give me a reason to talk to people I would be too shy to talk to normally. Now a lot of those strangers are no longer strangers, but friends, and that's because we played a lot of games together. I also believe that you can learn more in much less time about the character and personality of a person by how they act in a game (especially games about devising your own strategies and negotiating with people) than you can with most traditional social outings. Surprisingly video games don't really do this for me anymore. I do still play a lot of them, but I mostly play single player games. If I play multiplayer, it's got to be something in the same room now, which is why I have a Wii U.
  - pimlottc 10y ago
    Board games are really great for this, as it immediately gives you something to focus on - both literally and figuratively. Rather than having to stare a stranger in the face, you've got an excuse to pore over the bits and pieces on the table while quietly listening as the game is explained. The rules give you something to concentrate on as well as another excuse for not talking all time. But! The mechanics of the game itself are inevitablely social. Pretty soon you're interacting with your fellow players in dozens of small ways. Maybe you're even striking bargains and forming alliances. By the time the game ends, these people you've been chatting around a table with for almost an hour don't seem like such strangers anymore, and you've got a shared experience to talk about, as you trade views on how the game went and what you'd do differently next game.
icebraining 10y ago
In my Southern European country, cafes are still places for discussion among friends; Starbucks is very much an exception. On the other hand, I don't think people expect you to talk to complete strangers; generally you need to be friends with someone in the group. If you want to meet completely new people, I think you're better off joining some activity.
return0 10y ago
> they have turned out to be places where you are expected to keep to yourself. It's funny how different this is. In my country i would barely ever go to a cafe alone, as it's supposed to be a social activity.
return0 10y ago
In countries that have mandatory military service, many men create lifelong friendships in there. A great thing about it is that you meet people from literally all walks of life, the lowlives, the poor, the politically connected etc, all in a neutral environment.
sotojuan 10y ago
That's what cafés where like! Go to a café in the 1700s or 1800s and you'd find yourself in the middle of hopeful intellectuals, writers, and poets. The café was a club that anyone could join.

by bemmu 10y ago

CalChris 10y ago

That wasn't always the case. Before WIFI and laptops, cafes could be pretty crowded and social.

icantdrive55 10y ago
I am getting flashbacks of those days. It was so nice to walk into a Starbucks, and not see the chorus of people staring into their devices. The smart phone is looking like The Adult Pacifier. I'm getting old, but I remember social anxiety. I might have been that person who pulled out the phone?
- gkya 10y ago
  Oh glad I have showdead on, this comment was killed! Sadly now I see quite a bit dead comments that shouldn't be. Diversity of ideas shouldn't be left out in crossfire in a fight against spammers and trolls.
- farnsworth 10y ago
  When was this magic time when people constantly made friends with strangers in public? I remember that picture comparing the line of people staring at their smart phones to a group of people in the 1920's separately staring at their newspapers in public. Same people, same impulses, different day. Talking to people older than me, they often seem to say that a timeless feature of living in cities is that you try to pretend that the masses around you aren't there.
  - parennoob 10y ago
    I would say it was about five-something years ago. You weren't expected to have a smartphone that coddled you like a baby, and people would be more willing to help you out. Example – I was in New York by myself, and without a smart phone. I had to find my way around with maps + asking people. I ended up talking to quite a few interesting people, and hanging out with a stranger as we both were going the same way to a popular landmark. Today the iPhone in my pocket completely replaces all of those interactions, since I can (and am supposed to be able to) map my way to absolutely anywhere in NYC.
swang 10y ago
yes coffeehouses/cafes use to be where all the intellectuals gathered to discuss news and gossip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_17th_and_18th_centuries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_17...
heleph 10y ago
I met many of my local friends in a cafe here. We all have small kids, which give you a very easy opportunity to talk to people you don't know and make it difficult to spend time with a phone or laptop. After four years of living in our town with kids, I almost always bump into people I know when we are out and about. I've never been so connected to the local community where I live before and I really love it. :)
pmlnr 10y ago
Especially in the Austro-Hungarian Empire where even one of the public uprisings is originated from coffee houses.

farnsworth 10y ago

I was raised going to church but stopped in college, and I really miss the community. There's absolutely nothing like it that I've found in the secular world. It almost makes me want to 'fake it' and join a church again, just to be around such kind and welcoming people so often. And it's not just the social part of the community, or the moral lessons, although I liked both of those things - a church gives you an entire framework for your life. What's a secular wedding? A secular funeral? How do your kids get involved in the community outside of the public school system (Boy Scouts is hardly secular) and how do you celebrate their coming of age? What are your standing plans for Wednesday night and Sunday morning? We have to reinvent all these things from scratch when we're not involved with a church, and people do that, but I've never seen such an in-depth and positive out-of-the-box experience as what a church provides. They've been optimizing this stuff for literally millennia. And I think that society is ripe for a group that will provide all of this, while not also trying to tell us about spirits doing magic tricks. And if you think about it that way, then the "this is where the world comes from" part of religion is almost a sideshow to the "here's a community and framework for your life" part, and yet it's what people focus on and what turns people away.

ivv 10y ago
This is what gyms have become for many. I remember seeing a graph showing the decline in church attendance coinciding with the rise in gym memberships.
- farnsworth 10y ago
  I think that gyms can scratch a certain itch in that arena, but aren't nearly as comprehensive as what a church provides. Also I hoped for that when I started at a small yoga studio, but nobody really talked to anybody else there, as far as I saw, and I didn't make any lasting connections.
  - ldarcyftw 10y ago
    A small yoga/acro studio I attended had after-class snacks and Saturday/Sunday activities. It depends on the owner level of involvement I assume.

apatters 10y ago

I think to socialize with random other individuals most people need alcohol or a pretense - pubs provide the former, temples provide the latter. There are societies where this concept is pretty foreign. I live in Thailand and when I tell Thai friends that foreigners often sit down at a pub and talk to complete strangers, many are quite surprised.

cableshaft 10y ago
For me, it really helps if I have a pretense like you say, but for me that pretense is playing games. Pool, darts, trivia, role playing games, board games (the biggest one for me right now), scavenger hunts, murder mysteries, even karaoke I can treat kind of like a game. Playing or following sports (games) can serve as that pretense also, although I don't follow them very closely personally (although it's impossible to avoid Cubs mania in Chicago right now :) Games have helped me be around strangers and give me a reason to talk to people I would be too shy to talk to normally. Now a lot of those strangers are no longer strangers, but friends, and that's because we played a lot of games together. I also believe that you can learn more in much less time about the character and personality of a person by how they act in a game (especially games about devising your own strategies and negotiating with people) than you can with most traditional social outings. Surprisingly video games don't really do this for me anymore. I do still play a lot of them, but I mostly play single player games. If I play multiplayer, it's got to be something in the same room now, which is why I have a Wii U.
- pimlottc 10y ago
  Board games are really great for this, as it immediately gives you something to focus on - both literally and figuratively. Rather than having to stare a stranger in the face, you've got an excuse to pore over the bits and pieces on the table while quietly listening as the game is explained. The rules give you something to concentrate on as well as another excuse for not talking all time. But! The mechanics of the game itself are inevitablely social. Pretty soon you're interacting with your fellow players in dozens of small ways. Maybe you're even striking bargains and forming alliances. By the time the game ends, these people you've been chatting around a table with for almost an hour don't seem like such strangers anymore, and you've got a shared experience to talk about, as you trade views on how the game went and what you'd do differently next game.

icebraining 10y ago

In my Southern European country, cafes are still places for discussion among friends; Starbucks is very much an exception. On the other hand, I don't think people expect you to talk to complete strangers; generally you need to be friends with someone in the group. If you want to meet completely new people, I think you're better off joining some activity.

return0 10y ago

> they have turned out to be places where you are expected to keep to yourself. It's funny how different this is. In my country i would barely ever go to a cafe alone, as it's supposed to be a social activity.

return0 10y ago

In countries that have mandatory military service, many men create lifelong friendships in there. A great thing about it is that you meet people from literally all walks of life, the lowlives, the poor, the politically connected etc, all in a neutral environment.

sotojuan 10y ago

That's what cafés where like! Go to a café in the 1700s or 1800s and you'd find yourself in the middle of hopeful intellectuals, writers, and poets. The café was a club that anyone could join.