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The side effects experienced by the men in this study are not to be taken lightly. They're scary and dangerous. They're also no worse than the side effects (fr

The side effects experienced by the men in this study are not to be taken lightly. They're scary and dangerous. They're also no worse than the side effects (from depression severe enough to cause suicide to life-threatening complications and yes, permanent infertility) that women on various forms of birth control have put up with for the past several decades. And continue to endure. And even in studies not about birth control, women's medical complaints and concerns about side effects have been shown to be taken less seriously by medical professionals than men's similar concerns. Your sister, girlfriend, date. That woman you saw on line at Starbucks. They may not all be experiencing those side effects (neither did all the men in the study). But they're all risking a LOT to avoid pregnancy. Today. Right this moment. Ask yourself why those side effects and risks are OK for them to bear but not for you. Ask where the research is on female birth control without those risks. I'm not saying this study should necessarily have continued. Just that there's very good reason for the bitterness. If you want to understand the female perspective on this news, try the below opinion piece: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5818f13fe4b0922c570bd335 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5818f13fe4b0922c570bd335

hubert123 10y ago
Jesus christ, how about if women dont like it, they can stop taking it? There are plenty of alternatives, none perfect as Im sure you are eager to point out.
- cauterized 10y ago
  Thank you for your enlightening perspective.
- kingad 10y ago
  Okay, you are advocating for hardcore feminism that would change the society perceptions and make it feasible to alter behaviours. It will take time to happen but it is worth fighting for it now.
- user5994461 10y ago
  Most women only take birth control when they're in an active relationship. Men seem to ignore that.
  - huehehue 10y ago
    Though, from a planned parenthood rep > Birth control can have non-contraceptive benefits as well, so plenty of people use it regardless of their level of sexual activity or pregnancy risk. For example, my dermatologist prescribed birth control pills when I was a teenager to help clear up my torturous pizza face – the pregnancy prevention part was a total bonus when I became sexually active later. Other methods, like the hormonal IUD, can reduce and sometimes even stop menstrual bleeding and/or cramps, a side effect that lots of folks appreciate.
  - hubert123 10y ago
    and? women in a relationship are powerless to choose a different contraceptive?
Meegul 10y ago
Last I checked, permanent infertility and a (successful) suicide rate of 1 in 200 are not side effects of female hormonal birth control.
- cauterized 10y ago
  Female depressives attempt suicide at a higher rate than men. Men achieve suicide at a higher rate than women because they on average use more violent and irreversible means (such as firearms vs pills). The higher success rate doesn't mean the symptoms are worse.
  - Meegul 10y ago
    Either way, assuming the same amount of men end up on this form of birth control as women are on hormonal birth control, there'd be severe consequences. Around 10 million women take the pill regularly, and the male equivalent would result in 50,000 more successful male suicides annually. That would more than DOUBLE the annual suicide total, on just 10 million men taking this pill. I understand that female birth control is not without side effects - even relatively severe ones. But the current narrative that men are being wimps about this is insulting. These side effects would end up in tens of thousands of people dying.
    - cauterized 10y ago
      Yes, and those people dying is not an ok result. Which is why the research has stopped. I'm just asking why, if we're not ok with those side effects, we're not also putting more research into safer birth control for women too. Also, if the researchers wanted people to take the announcement seriously without women whining about what we put up with for birth control, they should have left stuff like acne and mood swings out of the explanation for stopping the research, FFS.
    - scott_s 10y ago
      It's not valid to take the frequency of occurrence in a small sample size (320), and multiply it up to a large population (10 million). I still agree it's not worth the risk, but it's also not likely to be an additional 31,250 suicide attempts among men. (Which is how my math worked out - I'm not sure where your 50,000 number of successful suicides came from. The study had 320 participants with one suicide attempt. But, again, this sort of multiplication from small sample sizes to large sample sizes is not actually predictive, so it's kinda moot.)
torrent-of-ions 10y ago
> that women on various forms of birth control have put up with for the past several decades. And continue to endure. I keep seeing this kind of thing spouted and it's ridiculous. No woman has to take birth control. They do it because they want sex without any risks. If a women gets depression from it then she should stop taking it.
- cauterized 10y ago
  And you could say the same of men.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
geebee 10y ago
These are fair points about the general lack of male birth control availability. Keep in mind, only 20 of 320 dropped out of this study. That means almost 94% of the participants complete it. The percentage who dropped out due to mood swings appears to be somewhere between 2%-4% (this wasn't entirely clear from the write up, but either way, it's a small percentage). And according to the study, over 75% of the participants said that they would be interested in continuing to take this drug as birth control. Lastly, it sounds like the research study was somewhat successful. This is an initial trial, and it appears to be effective. It probably makes sense to halt the trial at this point, refine, try to increase effectiveness, try to decrease side effects, and try another round. It's a drug trial. This is a good thing. While I can understand the bitterness you've described, I really don't think this study, or the men who participated in it, are even remotely appropriate targets for it. To answer your question, "Ask yourself why those side effects and risks are OK for them to bear but not for you"? From what I've read, it sounds like the majority of men who participated in this study absolutely are willing to tolerate the side effects and take those risks! Lastly, you mentioned those women we see in line at starbucks "are all risking a LOT to avoid pregnancy". I don't mean to take your statement too literally, but do women never quit their birth control due to side effects, or in such low numbers that they are essential zero? Keep in mind, it was only 2-4% of men who quit due to mood swings, and 6.25% overall, and this was for an experimental trial. I found the media reaction to this study to be pretty cringe worthy. That story I just describe was converted into some variant of "birth control study terminated because men can't handle the side effects".
- cauterized 10y ago
  In general women endure the side effects because the penalty for not remaining on birth control is higher. And because we're told those symptoms are "normal" and "to be expected". And because we're expected to accept more responsibility for birth control than men are, in general. The guy carries condoms in his wallet, but in a relationship it's the woman's problem. But yes, women do quit or change methods because they can't stand the symptoms. I quit the pill because of depression, weight gain, and loss of libido. A friend had a non-hormonal IUD removed because it escalated her monthly menstruation to the level of hemorrhage. I know one who avoids the pill because of blood pressure and cancer risks. I know others who simply endure mood swings, weight gain, etc because they don't want to get pregnant and their boyfriends or husbands loathe condoms. There's a lot to be fixed on both sides. I think some cultural change is in order. I hope we're able to develop a version of male birth control that doesn't have severe side effects. And I wish someone would invest in research into birth control for women that is safer than what we now have too.
Kenji 10y ago
This is nonsense. Many women even benefit from the contraception (I mean, beside the obvious benefit of contraception). I know of women who had horrific pain during that time every month, and with contraceptives, they regained control over their body and the pain during their days subsided (so, they'd take it even if they weren't sexually active). Risks of modern and popular female contraceptives are incredibly low. Besides, nobody forces women to take these contraceptives (which are currently the only ones that work well beside physical contraceptives).
- cauterized 10y ago
  And nobody would be forcing men to take this.
  - Kenji 10y ago
    That's not what I'm arguing about. They're also no worse than the side effects (from depression severe enough to cause suicide to life-threatening complications and yes, permanent infertility) that women on various forms of birth control have put up with for the past several decades. And continue to endure. Not true at all, literally completely false. I'm not saying this study should necessarily have continued. Just that there's very good reason for the bitterness. If you want to understand the female perspective on this news, try the below opinion piece: There is no good reason for the bitterness, frankly. It's just people complaining, instead of actually solving any problems. A classic trait of modern third wave feminism. These pills give women huge control over their bodies and they think men want to poison them or force it on them or something...
pc86 10y ago
> Ask where the research is on female birth control without those risks. As far as I know scientists and researchers are free to research whatever topics they want. And similarly, there are physical means of birth control for which women do not need to take the pill. It's a choice. And regarding the permanent infertility effect specifically, I seriously doubt the rate is anywhere approaching 1 in 320 at four years of 1 in 40 (8/320) after one year.

hubert123 10y ago

Jesus christ, how about if women dont like it, they can stop taking it? There are plenty of alternatives, none perfect as Im sure you are eager to point out.

cauterized 10y ago
Thank you for your enlightening perspective.
kingad 10y ago
Okay, you are advocating for hardcore feminism that would change the society perceptions and make it feasible to alter behaviours. It will take time to happen but it is worth fighting for it now.
user5994461 10y ago
Most women only take birth control when they're in an active relationship. Men seem to ignore that.
- huehehue 10y ago
  Though, from a planned parenthood rep > Birth control can have non-contraceptive benefits as well, so plenty of people use it regardless of their level of sexual activity or pregnancy risk. For example, my dermatologist prescribed birth control pills when I was a teenager to help clear up my torturous pizza face – the pregnancy prevention part was a total bonus when I became sexually active later. Other methods, like the hormonal IUD, can reduce and sometimes even stop menstrual bleeding and/or cramps, a side effect that lots of folks appreciate.
- hubert123 10y ago
  and? women in a relationship are powerless to choose a different contraceptive?

Meegul 10y ago

Last I checked, permanent infertility and a (successful) suicide rate of 1 in 200 are not side effects of female hormonal birth control.

cauterized 10y ago
Female depressives attempt suicide at a higher rate than men. Men achieve suicide at a higher rate than women because they on average use more violent and irreversible means (such as firearms vs pills). The higher success rate doesn't mean the symptoms are worse.
- Meegul 10y ago
  Either way, assuming the same amount of men end up on this form of birth control as women are on hormonal birth control, there'd be severe consequences. Around 10 million women take the pill regularly, and the male equivalent would result in 50,000 more successful male suicides annually. That would more than DOUBLE the annual suicide total, on just 10 million men taking this pill. I understand that female birth control is not without side effects - even relatively severe ones. But the current narrative that men are being wimps about this is insulting. These side effects would end up in tens of thousands of people dying.
  - cauterized 10y ago
    Yes, and those people dying is not an ok result. Which is why the research has stopped. I'm just asking why, if we're not ok with those side effects, we're not also putting more research into safer birth control for women too. Also, if the researchers wanted people to take the announcement seriously without women whining about what we put up with for birth control, they should have left stuff like acne and mood swings out of the explanation for stopping the research, FFS.
  - scott_s 10y ago
    It's not valid to take the frequency of occurrence in a small sample size (320), and multiply it up to a large population (10 million). I still agree it's not worth the risk, but it's also not likely to be an additional 31,250 suicide attempts among men. (Which is how my math worked out - I'm not sure where your 50,000 number of successful suicides came from. The study had 320 participants with one suicide attempt. But, again, this sort of multiplication from small sample sizes to large sample sizes is not actually predictive, so it's kinda moot.)

torrent-of-ions 10y ago

> that women on various forms of birth control have put up with for the past several decades. And continue to endure. I keep seeing this kind of thing spouted and it's ridiculous. No woman has to take birth control. They do it because they want sex without any risks. If a women gets depression from it then she should stop taking it.

cauterized 10y ago
And you could say the same of men.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

geebee 10y ago

These are fair points about the general lack of male birth control availability. Keep in mind, only 20 of 320 dropped out of this study. That means almost 94% of the participants complete it. The percentage who dropped out due to mood swings appears to be somewhere between 2%-4% (this wasn't entirely clear from the write up, but either way, it's a small percentage). And according to the study, over 75% of the participants said that they would be interested in continuing to take this drug as birth control. Lastly, it sounds like the research study was somewhat successful. This is an initial trial, and it appears to be effective. It probably makes sense to halt the trial at this point, refine, try to increase effectiveness, try to decrease side effects, and try another round. It's a drug trial. This is a good thing. While I can understand the bitterness you've described, I really don't think this study, or the men who participated in it, are even remotely appropriate targets for it. To answer your question, "Ask yourself why those side effects and risks are OK for them to bear but not for you"? From what I've read, it sounds like the majority of men who participated in this study absolutely are willing to tolerate the side effects and take those risks! Lastly, you mentioned those women we see in line at starbucks "are all risking a LOT to avoid pregnancy". I don't mean to take your statement too literally, but do women never quit their birth control due to side effects, or in such low numbers that they are essential zero? Keep in mind, it was only 2-4% of men who quit due to mood swings, and 6.25% overall, and this was for an experimental trial. I found the media reaction to this study to be pretty cringe worthy. That story I just describe was converted into some variant of "birth control study terminated because men can't handle the side effects".

cauterized 10y ago
In general women endure the side effects because the penalty for not remaining on birth control is higher. And because we're told those symptoms are "normal" and "to be expected". And because we're expected to accept more responsibility for birth control than men are, in general. The guy carries condoms in his wallet, but in a relationship it's the woman's problem. But yes, women do quit or change methods because they can't stand the symptoms. I quit the pill because of depression, weight gain, and loss of libido. A friend had a non-hormonal IUD removed because it escalated her monthly menstruation to the level of hemorrhage. I know one who avoids the pill because of blood pressure and cancer risks. I know others who simply endure mood swings, weight gain, etc because they don't want to get pregnant and their boyfriends or husbands loathe condoms. There's a lot to be fixed on both sides. I think some cultural change is in order. I hope we're able to develop a version of male birth control that doesn't have severe side effects. And I wish someone would invest in research into birth control for women that is safer than what we now have too.

Kenji 10y ago

This is nonsense. Many women even benefit from the contraception (I mean, beside the obvious benefit of contraception). I know of women who had horrific pain during that time every month, and with contraceptives, they regained control over their body and the pain during their days subsided (so, they'd take it even if they weren't sexually active). Risks of modern and popular female contraceptives are incredibly low. Besides, nobody forces women to take these contraceptives (which are currently the only ones that work well beside physical contraceptives).

cauterized 10y ago
And nobody would be forcing men to take this.
- Kenji 10y ago
  That's not what I'm arguing about. They're also no worse than the side effects (from depression severe enough to cause suicide to life-threatening complications and yes, permanent infertility) that women on various forms of birth control have put up with for the past several decades. And continue to endure. Not true at all, literally completely false. I'm not saying this study should necessarily have continued. Just that there's very good reason for the bitterness. If you want to understand the female perspective on this news, try the below opinion piece: There is no good reason for the bitterness, frankly. It's just people complaining, instead of actually solving any problems. A classic trait of modern third wave feminism. These pills give women huge control over their bodies and they think men want to poison them or force it on them or something...

pc86 10y ago

> Ask where the research is on female birth control without those risks. As far as I know scientists and researchers are free to research whatever topics they want. And similarly, there are physical means of birth control for which women do not need to take the pill. It's a choice. And regarding the permanent infertility effect specifically, I seriously doubt the rate is anywhere approaching 1 in 320 at four years of 1 in 40 (8/320) after one year.