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Now I can show this to my employees when they ask for vacation days. I won't allow anything but the best for them and meditation can be efficiently packed into

Now I can show this to my employees when they ask for vacation days. I won't allow anything but the best for them and meditation can be efficiently packed into the lunch break time frame.

throwfaesfe 10y ago
hn-logic at its best.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Sarcasm is an excellent genre for short texts.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
zavulon 10y ago
Upvoted for humor and the username.
amelius 10y ago
Only if we get VR goggles, to at least have the illusion that we're on a vacation.
neves 10y ago
This is what bothers me about meditation. Sometimes meditation looks like a panacea. Your life scks, your boss is an ssh*le, your personal relationships a mess, but if you meditate everything will be all right. Better to put some prozac in the water system.
- javajosh 10y ago
  That falsely assumes that meditation's only effect is to make you emotionally more durable. One of the interesting effects is that when you become more durable, and able to endure, you're also able to make better decisions. You can "zoom out" and perceive options that were invisible before. Sometimes this means the often painful realization that you are the asshole, and need to change. But other times this means seeing that your situation could be a whole lot better, with a new partner, or a new job. The key thing is that you get some space between you and your situation, and this gives you a lot of freedom.
  - neves 10y ago
    I'm fond of meditation. I just dispute the idea that in a world full of injustices, that meditation is the path to happiness. We need a bunch of extreme anger and indignation to change the world.
    - jal278 10y ago
      Ideally, meditation would spur you on to action; that's the direct aim of engaged Buddhism [1]. But more broadly, many Buddhist schools aim to encourage a direct feeling of love for all sentient beings, which if combined with the philosophy of something like effective altruism [2] (instead of Woo), could contribute to effecting meaningful systemic change. Also -- I believe Buddhism does not apply negative connotations to 'indignation' as opposed to raw anger, i.e. I don't think it is classified as a negative state of mind to be dissolved. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engaged_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engaged_Buddhism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism
    - BrandonM 10y ago
      I don't dispute that "extreme anger and indignation" can change the world, but I'm not convinced that it effects change that is long-term good. Anger and indignation often lead to rash decision making, hostility, vengeance, etc. The world isn't really better when we trade injustice against one group for injustice against another, and extreme anger has an unfortunate tendency to do just that.
    - javajosh 10y ago
      Neves, I'm not happy that your comment was down-voted. It's a commonly held view, and one I've held myself. It's a good comment because it's honest. My personal experience is that anger is accompanied by a level of agitation that makes all action dangerous. If you manage to do the right thing, it is by accident. More often than not, you cause more damage. It's true that anger gives you a lot of energy to accomplish a goal; but it's one of life's sad ironies that it also causes you to fixate on a goal which a) might not be a good one, and b) brings with it a set of (bad) trade-offs. That said, there may be situations where a jolt of any energy, including that from anger, is ultimately a good thing. E.g. a depressed person unable to do anything, who suddenly feels furious and throws a tantrum and runs away. Gonna be tough in the short-term, but if you're stuck in a rut any change can be a good thing. Anyway, thanks for the comment and I hope you get more upvotes.
- lujim 10y ago
  Life doesn't relent. Even young, rich, beautiful people are susceptible to feelings of unsatisfactory-ness that leave them reaching for the booze and hard drugs or just feeling all around unfulfilled and miserable. Humans are built to run on a hedonic treadmill, not to be content in the moment. Meditation is a tool so that when your life scks, your boss is an ssh*le, and your personal relationships are a mess, THEN someone cuts you off in traffic you take a minute or two of breath awareness and open monitoring instead of running them off the road and karate kicking them in the head. It helps you relax into feelings of anger, pain, or depression instead of running from them and chasing your addictive behavior of choice to escape. Also like every other tool out there it isn't 100% effective.
  - droopyEyelids 10y ago
    Your example was extreme with the 'running them off the road' bit, but actually meditation isn't helpful unless it pushes you to that breaking point. You need to get worked up, speak your mind, start the argument, quit your job when things get too bad. Life isn't a float on the lazy river. Feelings of anger and pain exist for a reason. Thats why meditation, as it's sold, is bullsh*t. You're describing an alternative to xanax.
    - lujim 10y ago
      I've noticed a lot of people that meditate struggle with aversion of thoughts and feelings vs "letting go" of thoughts and feelings. You certainly feel every bit of pain, anger, and sadness as a non meditator would. The distinction is that you work on "meta-cognitive awareness". You try to avoid getting swept up in the narrative thought stream if possible. So here goes from my own experience (doesn't work 100% of the time). without mindful awareness Guy cuts me off -> "WTF is that guy doing? What a moron! Someone always has to mess with me! Look at how smug he is. I want to jam his nose into the back of his head" with Guy cuts me off -> "WTF is that guy doing? Woah feeling that anger. I can feel it right in my chest and kind of a warm feeling in my face and arms. Hmm interesting. I wonder if he is rushing to the hospital or to some emergency. Just like me, I've accidentally cut someone off before. Oh well what's on the radio" It helps you build more mature mental models. Mental models are useful but often wrong. Mindfulness can help you question your own mental models and take things less personally. Tons of reputable studies will back up mindfulness and meditation as a standalone or complementary tool for stress, anxiety, depression, and pain. Medication still plays a very important role. Edit: Upvote to you for bringing up a good point. It is very hard to sort out the bull*hit in the meditation community. There is an awful lot of tradition, psudo-science, and plain old snobbery in this community. Anyone that gets involved should start with the basics and avoid as much of the spiritual hype as possible.
- readitmeow 10y ago
  It's not that everything will be alright. It's a way to focus and take back your life. Your life sucks, your boss is an asshole and if you don't stop, your every move is dictated by the environment and you are just caught in this flow of negative things happening to you. People tend to be caught up in the past or future. They are either constantly thinking about regrets or hopes and wishes to distracted to see the opportunities in the present. There's a saying. You should meditate for atleast 30 minutes a day. If you don't think you have time for that, you should meditate for 1 hour a day.x6
imglorp 10y ago
HR everywhere should provide quiet rooms for meditation. It would cost almost nothing and be a benefit for attracting talent.
vilhelm_s 10y ago
The manager can walk around and helpfully hit you with a stick if you let your mind drift.

Now I can show this to my employees when they ask for vacation days. I won't allow anything but the best for them and meditation can be efficiently packed into the lunch break time frame.

throwfaesfe 10y ago

hn-logic at its best.

jsprogrammer 10y ago
Sarcasm is an excellent genre for short texts.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

zavulon 10y ago

Upvoted for humor and the username.

amelius 10y ago

Only if we get VR goggles, to at least have the illusion that we're on a vacation.

neves 10y ago

This is what bothers me about meditation. Sometimes meditation looks like a panacea. Your life scks, your boss is an ssh*le, your personal relationships a mess, but if you meditate everything will be all right. Better to put some prozac in the water system.

javajosh 10y ago
That falsely assumes that meditation's only effect is to make you emotionally more durable. One of the interesting effects is that when you become more durable, and able to endure, you're also able to make better decisions. You can "zoom out" and perceive options that were invisible before. Sometimes this means the often painful realization that you are the asshole, and need to change. But other times this means seeing that your situation could be a whole lot better, with a new partner, or a new job. The key thing is that you get some space between you and your situation, and this gives you a lot of freedom.
- neves 10y ago
  I'm fond of meditation. I just dispute the idea that in a world full of injustices, that meditation is the path to happiness. We need a bunch of extreme anger and indignation to change the world.
  - jal278 10y ago
    Ideally, meditation would spur you on to action; that's the direct aim of engaged Buddhism [1]. But more broadly, many Buddhist schools aim to encourage a direct feeling of love for all sentient beings, which if combined with the philosophy of something like effective altruism [2] (instead of Woo), could contribute to effecting meaningful systemic change. Also -- I believe Buddhism does not apply negative connotations to 'indignation' as opposed to raw anger, i.e. I don't think it is classified as a negative state of mind to be dissolved. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engaged_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engaged_Buddhism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism
  - BrandonM 10y ago
    I don't dispute that "extreme anger and indignation" can change the world, but I'm not convinced that it effects change that is long-term good. Anger and indignation often lead to rash decision making, hostility, vengeance, etc. The world isn't really better when we trade injustice against one group for injustice against another, and extreme anger has an unfortunate tendency to do just that.
  - javajosh 10y ago
    Neves, I'm not happy that your comment was down-voted. It's a commonly held view, and one I've held myself. It's a good comment because it's honest. My personal experience is that anger is accompanied by a level of agitation that makes all action dangerous. If you manage to do the right thing, it is by accident. More often than not, you cause more damage. It's true that anger gives you a lot of energy to accomplish a goal; but it's one of life's sad ironies that it also causes you to fixate on a goal which a) might not be a good one, and b) brings with it a set of (bad) trade-offs. That said, there may be situations where a jolt of any energy, including that from anger, is ultimately a good thing. E.g. a depressed person unable to do anything, who suddenly feels furious and throws a tantrum and runs away. Gonna be tough in the short-term, but if you're stuck in a rut any change can be a good thing. Anyway, thanks for the comment and I hope you get more upvotes.
lujim 10y ago
Life doesn't relent. Even young, rich, beautiful people are susceptible to feelings of unsatisfactory-ness that leave them reaching for the booze and hard drugs or just feeling all around unfulfilled and miserable. Humans are built to run on a hedonic treadmill, not to be content in the moment. Meditation is a tool so that when your life scks, your boss is an ssh*le, and your personal relationships are a mess, THEN someone cuts you off in traffic you take a minute or two of breath awareness and open monitoring instead of running them off the road and karate kicking them in the head. It helps you relax into feelings of anger, pain, or depression instead of running from them and chasing your addictive behavior of choice to escape. Also like every other tool out there it isn't 100% effective.
- droopyEyelids 10y ago
  Your example was extreme with the 'running them off the road' bit, but actually meditation isn't helpful unless it pushes you to that breaking point. You need to get worked up, speak your mind, start the argument, quit your job when things get too bad. Life isn't a float on the lazy river. Feelings of anger and pain exist for a reason. Thats why meditation, as it's sold, is bullsh*t. You're describing an alternative to xanax.
  - lujim 10y ago
    I've noticed a lot of people that meditate struggle with aversion of thoughts and feelings vs "letting go" of thoughts and feelings. You certainly feel every bit of pain, anger, and sadness as a non meditator would. The distinction is that you work on "meta-cognitive awareness". You try to avoid getting swept up in the narrative thought stream if possible. So here goes from my own experience (doesn't work 100% of the time). without mindful awareness Guy cuts me off -> "WTF is that guy doing? What a moron! Someone always has to mess with me! Look at how smug he is. I want to jam his nose into the back of his head" with Guy cuts me off -> "WTF is that guy doing? Woah feeling that anger. I can feel it right in my chest and kind of a warm feeling in my face and arms. Hmm interesting. I wonder if he is rushing to the hospital or to some emergency. Just like me, I've accidentally cut someone off before. Oh well what's on the radio" It helps you build more mature mental models. Mental models are useful but often wrong. Mindfulness can help you question your own mental models and take things less personally. Tons of reputable studies will back up mindfulness and meditation as a standalone or complementary tool for stress, anxiety, depression, and pain. Medication still plays a very important role. Edit: Upvote to you for bringing up a good point. It is very hard to sort out the bull*hit in the meditation community. There is an awful lot of tradition, psudo-science, and plain old snobbery in this community. Anyone that gets involved should start with the basics and avoid as much of the spiritual hype as possible.
readitmeow 10y ago
It's not that everything will be alright. It's a way to focus and take back your life. Your life sucks, your boss is an asshole and if you don't stop, your every move is dictated by the environment and you are just caught in this flow of negative things happening to you. People tend to be caught up in the past or future. They are either constantly thinking about regrets or hopes and wishes to distracted to see the opportunities in the present. There's a saying. You should meditate for atleast 30 minutes a day. If you don't think you have time for that, you should meditate for 1 hour a day.x6

imglorp 10y ago

HR everywhere should provide quiet rooms for meditation. It would cost almost nothing and be a benefit for attracting talent.

vilhelm_s 10y ago

The manager can walk around and helpfully hit you with a stick if you let your mind drift.